Highway Agencys

[ady1]

Dafman:

Big Jase:
Mmm funny. what have people done for the last 50 years when they have broken down and its cold■■? It isnt the HA’s job to keep people warm.

All year round the HA put out notices warning people of heavy traffic, dont go out unless you have to, when its cold take extra layers etc. Have a look here every now and again highways.gov.uk/.

In relation to the other subject, as has been said, how do you know she hasnt already been seen to, it isnt their job to sit behind cars all day. Why put 2 cars at risk when you can have 1 car, move it over so any wandering truckers dont roll onto the H/S and hit it, and get the people away from it.

Why wondering trucker why not coach, car, crane, driver, m/bike rider, why single out the lorry driver

i thought that too

[dieselcowboy]

Mike-C:

Dieselcowboy:

snafu:

renaultman:
They weren’t forced to stand outside then! Read the post

No one is forced to do anything. We don’t have any power to make them get out of a car. However they are advised for their safety they should do so. You will also find that the national breakdown companies give the same advice over the phone.

For wet weather we can provide plastic poncho’s (which to be fair are plastic bags with holes but better than nothing) and space blankets for the cold. In extreme conditions it has been known for mum and the kids to be taken to an MSA leaving dad to wait for recovery.

Another reason why we don’t stay unless there is good reason goes as follows.

Mr Numpty sees hazard lights and nothing. Mr Numpty sees lots of flashing lights and he thinks, oh this might be interesting so he slows down. Trucker 1 then has to move out into lane 2 slowing trucker 2. Behind trucker 2 is Mr Tootle who only does 55-60 but likes lane 2. He then moves into lane 3 still doing 55-60 causing Mr Vectra who is doing 90 to slam on. This is followed by Mr Mondeo, Mr Volvo etc. apart from Mr Dopey who sees it to late, swerves into lane 2 and becomes Trucker 2’s 27th pallet.

Talking of Mr Numpty slowing down when seeing a HA Muppet over the top 4X4, why do the HA take great pleasure at parking in the ‘Smokey Perches’ at the side of the motorway, or on bridges over the motorway? The traffic visibly slows down as ‘Mr Numpty’ as he is called slams his brakes on thinking he has just come across a copper, in fact i have seen too many near accidents as people slam brakes on and take their eyes off the road to bog at the HA. They could park somwhere else quite easily, the M1 around 19-20 is a prime spot for one that regulary parks on the bridge in full view, they must giggle as they see the chaos they create. Personally, and this is purely my view, I am not led by anyone else’s comments on this site, I think they are a waste of time and money. I would love to see more traffic police on the road instead as we used to have, but the goverment in their wisdom rather than make the police force more appealing chose to equip the HA with uneccesary 4X4’s that look a bit too much like the police, hoping this would fill a void they have created. (regarding investigating complaints as mentioned elsewhere I am in discussions with the HA regarding the ridiculous overtaking ban (trial) on the A14 at the Mo, and will publish all findings on here, but I have broached several subjects, including complaing about a HA 4X4 that jumped out of lane 1 at Catthorpe into lane 2, drove several hundred yards and dived back in again, causing all of us in lane 2 to brake and sit there while he squeezed back in, just what we see ‘Mr Numpty’ doing every day, you think he would be more professional?! Guess what? they are not investigating that!)

I do not doubt they do an essental job now we have hardly any traffic cops, and yes it is bloody dangerous to work alongside a motorway, I wouldn’t do it, in fact I nearly applied to be one when they first set up. But wish they (the goverment) had more sense and gave them the same transits that the clear up crews have. They can be fitted with night heaters, crew cabs, carry more equipment, Go just as fast and ‘Mr Numpty’ wouldn’t panic when he saw one (it works fine in France). They would also gain alot more respect from people, who view them as pretend policemen. I have had personal experience of the HA from a fatal accident I was involved with, and they were useless, the police actually said that themselves to us witnesses, BUT i do realise there are good and bad in everything. For me, if they stopped pretending to be coppers, and just got on with the bloody hard job they do, they would gain my respect however much I disagree with why they were brought in in the first place. OK rant over, i await the torrent of abuse!

After this post i would hope that if you are in ‘discussions’ with the HA about the overtaking ban that you do it more eloquently than this. Otherwise i fear they may be laughing as loud as i am. I’m guessing your hearts in the right place !!!

apologies, i wasn’t aware i would be critisised for my use of the English language, otherwise I would have been more precise. I simply sat down and ‘banged away’ at the keyboard. Yes I have been more eloquent in my discussions, I am actually able to do this believe it or not, sorry to disappoint you. Funny, I thought this particular discussion was about the HA, not somebody’s grammar in their posting.

[mike-c]

Dieselcowboy:

Mike-C:

Dieselcowboy:

snafu:

renaultman:
They weren’t forced to stand outside then! Read the post

No one is forced to do anything. We don’t have any power to make them get out of a car. However they are advised for their safety they should do so. You will also find that the national breakdown companies give the same advice over the phone.

For wet weather we can provide plastic poncho’s (which to be fair are plastic bags with holes but better than nothing) and space blankets for the cold. In extreme conditions it has been known for mum and the kids to be taken to an MSA leaving dad to wait for recovery.

Another reason why we don’t stay unless there is good reason goes as follows.

Mr Numpty sees hazard lights and nothing. Mr Numpty sees lots of flashing lights and he thinks, oh this might be interesting so he slows down. Trucker 1 then has to move out into lane 2 slowing trucker 2. Behind trucker 2 is Mr Tootle who only does 55-60 but likes lane 2. He then moves into lane 3 still doing 55-60 causing Mr Vectra who is doing 90 to slam on. This is followed by Mr Mondeo, Mr Volvo etc. apart from Mr Dopey who sees it to late, swerves into lane 2 and becomes Trucker 2’s 27th pallet.

Talking of Mr Numpty slowing down when seeing a HA Muppet over the top 4X4, why do the HA take great pleasure at parking in the ‘Smokey Perches’ at the side of the motorway, or on bridges over the motorway? The traffic visibly slows down as ‘Mr Numpty’ as he is called slams his brakes on thinking he has just come across a copper, in fact i have seen too many near accidents as people slam brakes on and take their eyes off the road to bog at the HA. They could park somwhere else quite easily, the M1 around 19-20 is a prime spot for one that regulary parks on the bridge in full view, they must giggle as they see the chaos they create. Personally, and this is purely my view, I am not led by anyone else’s comments on this site, I think they are a waste of time and money. I would love to see more traffic police on the road instead as we used to have, but the goverment in their wisdom rather than make the police force more appealing chose to equip the HA with uneccesary 4X4’s that look a bit too much like the police, hoping this would fill a void they have created. (regarding investigating complaints as mentioned elsewhere I am in discussions with the HA regarding the ridiculous overtaking ban (trial) on the A14 at the Mo, and will publish all findings on here, but I have broached several subjects, including complaing about a HA 4X4 that jumped out of lane 1 at Catthorpe into lane 2, drove several hundred yards and dived back in again, causing all of us in lane 2 to brake and sit there while he squeezed back in, just what we see ‘Mr Numpty’ doing every day, you think he would be more professional?! Guess what? they are not investigating that!)

I do not doubt they do an essental job now we have hardly any traffic cops, and yes it is bloody dangerous to work alongside a motorway, I wouldn’t do it, in fact I nearly applied to be one when they first set up. But wish they (the goverment) had more sense and gave them the same transits that the clear up crews have. They can be fitted with night heaters, crew cabs, carry more equipment, Go just as fast and ‘Mr Numpty’ wouldn’t panic when he saw one (it works fine in France). They would also gain alot more respect from people, who view them as pretend policemen. I have had personal experience of the HA from a fatal accident I was involved with, and they were useless, the police actually said that themselves to us witnesses, BUT i do realise there are good and bad in everything. For me, if they stopped pretending to be coppers, and just got on with the bloody hard job they do, they would gain my respect however much I disagree with why they were brought in in the first place. OK rant over, i await the torrent of abuse!

After this post i would hope that if you are in ‘discussions’ with the HA about the overtaking ban that you do it more eloquently than this. Otherwise i fear they may be laughing as loud as i am. I’m guessing your hearts in the right place !!!

apologies, i wasn’t aware i would be critisised for my use of the English language, otherwise I would have been more precise. I simply sat down and ‘banged away’ at the keyboard. Yes I have been more eloquent in my discussions, I am actually able to do this believe it or not, sorry to disappoint you. Funny, I thought this particular discussion was about the HA, not somebody’s grammar in their posting.

I’m not talking about grammar, or typos, thats so lame. I mean the content.

[mike-c]

I’ll go some more. You address most other motorists as ‘Mr.Numpty’. That tells us something right from the outset. You blame a high visibility of authority for motorists ‘slamming on’? If ,and lets assume the motorists are not speeding here, they are slamming on when they see a parked Patrol car, how is that a Patrols fault? I agree the overtaking ban is ridiculous, thats another matter.
You’ve made it clear you do not like the HA patrols, you’ve made it clear you will not be led by anyones comments, you’ve made it clear you await a ‘torrent of abuse’. Its not your grammar that puzzles me, it what you are actually trying to say that does. (Well apart from everyones a Numpty). You may even have a point there.

[extrucker]

Diesel cowboy,im not going to give you a torrent of abuse (nor should anybody to anyone on this site !!).I would just like to clear up a few valid points that you’ve raised.
What is the difference between us parking on an observation post (piggy perch) and a Police car.The perches belong to HA and soon all the signs will change to ‘authorised vehicles only’.
As a tax payer,and a hato,i want more traffic Pol on m/ways.I want un-marked anpr cars to catch the un-taxed,un-insured,un-licenced lunatic.Traf Pol was being reduced long before HATO’s were even being considered.About 10 years ago,my mate would be the only traffic car,single crewed too,in our county some nights.
Projects,such as overtaking bans,have no involvement woth the TO service.In our stretch,we have major widening works.The speed limit was raised from 40 to 50 mph,without any consultation with us at all.Yes congestion has eased,but when you’re standing in lane 1,2.00am,behind a broke down hgv,that extra 10 mph seems very fast.And with no signals,it is very scary.
The patrol that sat in lane two,pushing in,might have just got a call,that made him adjust his direction of travel.Or he might just have been an unprofessional numpty.We do have them,just as the haulage industry does.
As for transits.We dont need to carry that much equipment.A transit cannot pull a hgv,like a discovery can,cant drive in icy conditions,or go into fields,which we have done with our 4x4’s to reach a hgv that went quite a\ way of the c/way.
Why do we need night heaters and more equipment?We are not ISUs and im sure that they dont want us to be.
As to attitude of police,it all depends which county and which officer you speak too.Most of herts Pol will slate us and most of Beds and Thames Valley Pol will praise us.I was first on scene at a fatal hgv rollover last week and was given fantastic credit by the officer in charge.Another force might have complained because i climbed in the cab to check for a pulse and kick the windscreen out !!
Our role is a very thin line betweendoing our duty and not looking to be wannabe cops.If i tell a hgv driver to get off his mobile,am i being a wannabe cop or just making my bit of m/way that little bit safer for a few minutes??
After all ‘safe roads’ is the first part of our ‘‘slogan’’.
If you ever see a TO crew parked up,go and chat to them and ask them any question.99% will be glad to speak to you.
Hope this is of use to you.

[snafu]

Bloomin eck Dieselcowboy use raise a lot of points there

I think ex trucker covered much of it and again no abuse from me. The points use raise are concerns felt by many. I would say that some are unfounded because you don’t have the answers but others I agree with.

Most important off these is the reduction in traffic police. This is (along with PCSO’s etc.) an issue on which we both agree I think, it should be police doing it. However, we have to live in the world as it is. At least someone is there even if it is not ideal. Remember that we come across a lot of criminality during our normal duties so we don’t want the bobbies far away any more than you as it is often way out of our league.

Mike C makes the point that if Mr Numpty (sorry Mike C but I did introduce him ) wasn’t speeding he wouldn’t need to slow down.

4x4’s has I think been covered but the police like markings are simply because the battenburg pattern shows up best so as we stop in live lanes it is safest for us and other road users. Believe me the HA would have made us look different if they could.

[dieselcowboy]

Mike-C:
I’ll go some more. You address most other motorists as ‘Mr.Numpty’. That tells us something right from the outset. You blame a high visibility of authority for motorists ‘slamming on’? If ,and lets assume the motorists are not speeding here, they are slamming on when they see a parked Patrol car, how is that a Patrols fault? I agree the overtaking ban is ridiculous, thats another matter.
You’ve made it clear you do not like the HA patrols, you’ve made it clear you will not be led by anyones comments, you’ve made it clear you await a ‘torrent of abuse’. Its not your grammar that puzzles me, it what you are actually trying to say that does. (Well apart from everyones a Numpty). You may even have a point there.

best you go back and read through the posts. Why do you think the words ‘Mr Numpty’ are in quotation marks? Also, I made it clear I think the HA do a valauable job NOW that we don’t have any traffic cops. I said I would rather have traffic cops, and am not happy with the situation the goverment has left us in, and as someone else points out the same is happening with the Community Police. I said they (the HA) obviously take great pleasure in parking in the police spaces and on bridges otherwise they would not do it, they have no need to. No its not their fault that the public slam their brakes on, but why encourage it? As I pointed out, a Transit would suffice the job, and it would cause less confusion to the ordinary motorist.
Read the postings fully before going off on one. This is why I have posted less and less on both sites lately, you just get people who are out for a row.

[paul_midway]

About the 4th thread this week alone on the Highways agency …

Whyd should people care so much what they do , It’s not like they will get rid of them because a few people are peeved off with them or don’t like them for whatever reason…
Personally I couldn’t give a two bit hoot what they do , what vehicles they drive and where they park and for what reasons .
If the general motorist can’t tell the difference between Police battenburg and HA battenburg then it just goes to show how aware of a driver they are …

Why people want to spend time complaining and moaning and writing letters is bewildering to me .
I,ve got better things to do with my time .

[mike-c]

Dieselcowboy:
I said they (the HA) obviously take great pleasure in parking in the police spaces and on bridges otherwise they would not do it, they have no need to. No its not their fault that the public slam their brakes on, but why encourage it?

Ok, no row from me. I just find this train of thought unbeliavable.

[thecoder0]

Highway P:

killer100:
Poor women at that time in the dark and assholse sit in a police lay by…

Had they been told to stand by at that location, because there was police interest in her, and it was not safe to approach.

Had she only just arrived?

Ok from real life. We were called by control to tell us of a lone female who had broken down. Our instructions were to drive to the junction just before her location and park up. Apparently there were possible issues surrounding this person, as it turned out there were no problems, we attended, helped her out recovery etc. job done
As has been said on another thread things are not always what they seem. And for the record we are authorised to use “police patrol cars only bays” although not many of us do.

Do you wear the wrap around shades and walk like you have just dropped two rolls of wallpaper from under the your armpits? like the guy I came across,that bloke had been watching too many bad american cop movies…but I guess he meant well

[gardun]

I’ve read this thread with interest! I’ve got a lot of respect for the HATOs - although I’ve never had any direct dealings with them their driving appears to be to a pretty good standard and the job they do is essential and often dangerous. I also agree wholeheartedly that there should be more police patrols on the roads. However, knowing the amount of training that a class 1 police driver has, and the level of skill, it is a complete waste of our taxes to have them protecting broken down HGVs/Cranes/Buses … sweeping debris off the road or many of the other jobs now covered by HATOs. There is a need for both at present.

Regarding their legal powers, I did hear from a fairly reliable source that in the future they may be given more power to cover even more of what the police now do (if and when they are there). Ultimately, we need someone to police the roads, and if the politicians decree that it iwill be HATOs not fully trained policemen - use your vote wisely!

[big_jase]

Ok then.

I have a few points as i along with a few here have taken the time to speak with HATO’s.

Smokey perches are indeed owned by the HA, yes, the same people who park on there, HA people. If people choose to speed and slam their brakes on, whos fault is that. As has already been said, if a truck loses a strap and a TO picks it up, whos fault is it??

On the subject of parking off the motorway, they wouldnt be much cop parked in the town would they??. Guys i have spoken to say People moan at THEM when they park in Tescos. Then people moan as they drive up and down all day. Which way do they want it■■?

Lets say there is debris and a Rolling block is needed, would you obey a guy in a white van in lane 2 waving his arms around■■? Doubtful. If a van was going down the road like that, you would just think he is a builder who forgot to turn his lights off. I understand they have 4x4 for towing cars from lanes that are broken down.

They are not pretend Police. They just look like Police as they have to have an authoritive look.

I have seen a few crashes in my time and realise how quickly things happen. These guys want to move people off the m/way asap to keep everyone safe and all some guys do is slate them. I had them overtake me today with 50 signs set, everyone ignored the signs as they normally do including a Red X above a lane which is illegal to pass and guess what?? there was a car in lane 3 that they pulled up behind while Mr Numpty carried on at speed and braked sharply, moved into lane 2, lane 2 then braked heavily and beofre long, all 3 lanes had stopped. When i went back up an hour later, the TO’s had gone but the queues were massive.

Your all entitlted to your own opinions. As i have said before, if you dont know, ASK. dont assume. There are far more things in life than moaning about nothing. But i guess some people just moan without even thinking about what they are moaning about.

[discopete]

To be fair to the HATO’s i think they do a worth while job,

I stopped at an accident with a car in the outside lane (grey car) just starting to get dark, sideways to the traffic with no lights on,

I stopped behind, flashing lights on, and waved the traffic into the left hand lanes, about a minute later a police car joined me, and less than a minute after that the HATO’s had set a Rolling block on about a mile back and slowly crept to a stop about 500 yards from us,

Safety in less than 2 minutes

I spoke to the policeman and said i did not see anything but i pointed out that there was something in the other carraigeway as i could hear it bouncing off the passing traffic, then a HATO appeared on the other side with a second rolling block, and they got all the debris off the road

Now before the hatos arrived the traffic was whistling past at speed, not slowing at all even with the blue lights behind me, there was limited attempt to slow as people passed, so to have a safe area in least than 2 minutes is fantastic, Now the people at the back of the rapidly growing queue by the time the traffic had been released would of crawlled past and seen some battered cars on the hard shoulder, No doubt some smart [zb] would of passed numerous comments on about the HATO’s and stopping traffic for a scratch on car, but just think you dont know the full story, what you are seeing is the aftermath,

I would rather be held up a bit than be sat on a closed motorway becasue someone had ploughed into this car and killed the driver, (the driver was still in the car when i stopped) Also a lot of people dont realise the danger they are in on the motorways, i have seen numerous people exchaning details in the outside lanes !!!

The HATO’s seem to have to sheep herd people onto the hard shoulder becuase they are too stupid to realise the dnager they are in, it is foolish to assume other people will not hit you because they will,

How about we just give them a break, yes they cant always be right with there decisions but are you always right with yours? We dont hear HATO’s moaning of all the trucks parked in the services on a break so why do people moan about HATO’s parked on observation points, and services,

They are human as well you know

[snafu]

Dieselcowboy:
As I pointed out, a Transit would suffice the job, and it would cause less confusion to the ordinary motorist.

Sorry Dieselcowboy but Transits would not suffice.

4WD (and power) is a must for clearing the road i.e. when a mop has got it in the cat litter (gravel) and we need to get two wheels in the same to get them out.

To do Rolling Road Blocks, stop in lane 3 behind a wreck for example we need a good rear view. This is not available on any Transit type vehicle that has 4WD.

Yes I hear you say but you could do that in a Landrover Defender. True but have you ever tried accelerating from the hard shoulder or a recently lifted closure in one of those.

Gardun says we may get more powers. This is true but many of us did not join for this. We will have to see how far this goes. As coder0 showed there will always be wannabes in a service such as ours. We don’t like them either

[paul_midway]

The acceleration of your vehicle is irrelevant really …You could do it in a defender , the TD5 will accelerate smartly as does the new 2.6 diesel engine .
Those discos are a little bit too much , especially considering how much they cost , given the choice I would run a round in a 110 all night .Plenty of room in the back of one of them for the gear , come in at nearly half the price of a Disco 3.

[denis_f]

snafu:
Yes I hear you say but you could do that in a Landrover Defender. True but have you ever tried accelerating from the hard shoulder or a recently lifted closure in one of those.

surely you accelerate along the hard shoulder and then pull out onto the main carriageway ?

I’d take a defender over a disco any day

[big_jase]

Denis F:

snafu:
Yes I hear you say but you could do that in a Landrover Defender. True but have you ever tried accelerating from the hard shoulder or a recently lifted closure in one of those.

surely you accelerate along the hard shoulder and then pull out onto the main carriageway ?

I’d take a defender over a disco any day

Paul, the Defender starts at £21000, The disco 3 starts at £24000. Not a huge difference. As i understand it the HA vehicle people put a lot of work into what vehicles they have and a 110 isnt the most comfortable of vehicles to spend a day in.

Denis F, As the post says, but have you ever tried accelerating from the hard shoulder or a recently lifted closure in one of those. Ive seen them leave a motorist on the H/S and built up speed on it to get out inot lane 1. how much distance does it take to get from 0 to 56 to pull out safely into lane 1. And what if they have just removed a lane 3 closure and are leaving that lane. I think you will agree, they want to get away quite quick.

[paul_midway]

Disco prices bog standard disco 3 on the road £27,315
landrover.co.uk/gb/en/Vehicl … e_list.htm

Defender 110 , lets go for the hardtop on the road £21080
landrover.co.uk/gb/en/Vehicl … e_list.htm

Better than a crappy plastic disco 3 anyday .

I reckon I could accelerate very well with my 300 tdi …You are just getting picky on the type of vehicle you want , I,ve spent full days with my 90 driving around and greenlaning , never a problem with comfort .

[big_jase]

Personally i hate the disco’s anyway.

Out of interest, can you get a 110 in automatic or are they all manual■■?

[paul_midway]

Retro fit automatic …
Doubtful you could get one from off the assembly line without it being a special order , and then cost you a bit extra …
There are some out there but like I say a lot of them have been fitted at a later date by an owner , normally to V8’s .