Hi all, and whats your opinion on

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

ROG:

in a truck I would indicate, because I can’t be sure there is no-one behind me

And that is true for many situations that truck drivers find themselves in and is why the examiner expects a signal every time on a DSA LGV test - HOWEVER, if a signal is not used and no-one was affected then a mark against the driver will not be given.

I can vouch for that. I overtook a truck on the motorway during my test and pulled back in without indicating. The only marks against me at the end were 3 minors, kissing a kerb, a shunt on the reversing exercise and pulling out at a roundabout when a car was coming, although to be fair he did say at the time it was only “a bit naughty” but we’d been sat there 5 minutes waiting and the car wasn’t actually on the roundabout when I pulled out, more like 30 yards from it.

62

ROG:
Imagine this senario on a 3 lane motorway -
You are in lane 2 and have just overtaken a vehicle in lane 1.
There is another truck following you in lane 2 who is wanting to pass you.
You stay in lane 2 until the minimum 2 second safety gap is reached so that you can go back into lane 1 without compromising the forward safety gap of the vehicle you have just overtaken.
You pull back into lane 1 without indicating as the driver in lane one does not need to know - you are within the safety tollerance - the driver behind is only interested in you getting out the way so a signal will not benefit that driver.

So why would you need to indicate??

Back to the topic of replying to a ‘flash-in’ -
The above senario is one reason that the use of indicators is not a good idea to acknowledge a ‘flasher’
The truck being overtaken flashes and it is your intention to stay where you are until the minimum safety gap is achieved so the use of an indicator could confuse the following truck who is waiting to pass you.
This is where the use of side lights as a ‘thank you’ to the one who flashed is preferrable.

63

ROG:
‘…If I said “Do not indicate unless there is someone who will benefit from your signal” how much more would you look around to accertain that? … many drivers today … just plod along doing things ‘automatically’ …’

Some philosophical thoughts from Chairman Keith

It’s perhaps the reality that we on here care about ‘what’s right’ because it’s a job/interest/passion for us. Meanwhile, those that don’t share it with us seem to do as they please without any apparent bother from ‘systems’ that were once in place to maintain fair play & Britishness via the social boundaries of road discipline.

As I now accept it, careless or intended road transgressions occur everywhere, everyday but only if a machine or a ‘safety-push’ from the Chief Constable catches a speeder or if a collision/impact/road furniture damage results from an inconsiderate style of driving, will any causality by a richard-head be reprimanded or taken into consideration for insurance liability payout, etc.

Until then, I pragmatically accept that those who practice and demonstrate good & courteous roadcraft are being abused since it is too often accepted (by many now indoctrinated as Thatcher/Blair children?) as being an inherent personal weakness by the myriad predators. Their place is either as being a migrant into our wacky & superficially rewarding free-for-all or those of previous good character but are now subject to being equally disenfranchised by their contemporary life & environmental conditions as the rest of us. The crux of a difference that we who care must accept (as apart from the quaintly dopey among society) is that through having those shifted & disenfranchised values it is fashionable for many to consider that ambition must be embraced as a lifestyle tenet and by extension, also be adopted as a roadcraft attribute worthy of both admiration & being honed.

In short, we share our roads with those who either can’t cope or who consider that (s)he who wins is a winner and the rest of us are subsequent losers, etc.

Smiley Amen

64

As for this indicating:

I agree, that when it’s completely unnecessary, like I am in Highlands in the middle of the night and we are only two vehicles within range of 30 kms, that’s OK.

But on the motorway I can think about plenty cases, when it’s useful.

I already gave you the example why I can need that when I am behind you.

Now let say I am driving a sprinter van on the lane 3. I can see in my mirrors that a motorbiker is going much faster than I am driving. I want to know when you are pulling to the left, as I want to go to lane 2 to let the motorbiker pass.

If you don’t use indicator I will know that you are pulling to the left only when you are doing this maneuvre. It can be two seconds, but it can be enaugh to slow the motorbiker down.

From the other hand you, as a lorry driver, can’t see the motorbiker in your mirror as my van is obstructing your view.

Say: are you always sure that it’s not necessary to indicate?

As for this “it’s obvious” argument:
we have an old joke in Poland: there is a police car who is overtaking a farm tractor, when it’s suddenly turns left. Off course it’s ends in big crash. The Police Officer asks the farmer “Why you don’t indicated your turn?” The driver answers “What’s the point? Everybody in the village knows that this is my farm!”

65

The biker is behind you, he is not going to hit me.
It’s up to him to slow down. You don’t move just because someone else is going faster. Otherwise we’d all do 60 all the time. If you need to let him past, you pull in behind me !
Should a parked car indicate when you pass it because a bike comes up behind you ?
Once you move out from lane 1, you are responsible for your actions, not the people you are passing.
No Sorry, I meant, You are always responsible for your actions. Don’t try to pass the buck onto me !

66

peterm:

pete904ni:
Welcome

:laughing:

Nah, ya couldn’t have done, unless it’s the bloody maggots.

Slightly off topic peterm,
But if you were into Flaggelation,Necrophilia and ■■■■■■■■■■,
Would you ever be seen flogging a dead horse■■?
Boom Boom

67

Happy Keith:

ROG:
‘…If I said “Do not indicate unless there is someone who will benefit from your signal” how much more would you look around to accertain that? … many drivers today … just plod along doing things ‘automatically’ …’

Some philosophical thoughts from Chairman Keith

It’s perhaps the reality that we on here care about ‘what’s right’ because it’s a job/interest/passion for us. Meanwhile, those that don’t share it with us seem to do as they please without any apparent bother from ‘systems’ that were once in place to maintain fair play & Britishness via the social boundaries of road discipline.

As I now accept it, careless or intended road transgressions occur everywhere, everyday but only if a machine or a ‘safety-push’ from the Chief Constable catches a speeder or if a collision/impact/road furniture damage results from an inconsiderate style of driving, will any causality by a richard-head be reprimanded or taken into consideration for insurance liability payout, etc.

Until then, I pragmatically accept that those who practice and demonstrate good & courteous roadcraft are being abused since it is too often accepted (by many now indoctrinated as Thatcher/Blair children?) as being an inherent personal weakness by the myriad predators. Their place is either as being a migrant into our wacky & superficially rewarding free-for-all or those of previous good character but are now subject to being equally disenfranchised by their contemporary life & environmental conditions as the rest of us. The crux of a difference that we who care must accept (as apart from the quaintly dopey among society) is that through having those shifted & disenfranchised values it is fashionable for many to consider that ambition must be embraced as a lifestyle tenet and by extension, also be adopted as a roadcraft attribute worthy of both admiration & being honed.

In short, we share our roads with those who either can’t cope or who consider that (s)he who wins is a winner and the rest of us are subsequent losers, etc.

Smiley Amen

Have you ever considered a job in the civil service? There must be a vacancy in the ministry for Gibberish! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

68

smoker:
The biker is behind you, he is not going to hit me.

Oh, so I don’t need to indicate, if someone won’t hit me? :slight_smile:

It’s up to him to slow down. You don’t move just because someone else is going faster. Otherwise we’d all do 60 all the time. If you need to let him past, you pull in behind me !

No, I don’t move just because someone else is going faster. But I can make everyone’s lifes easier.
If you will indicate, I can change to lane 2, knowing, that before I reach you, you’ll pull to lane 1. If you won’t indicate, I can’t change lane, as it’s very likely, that you’ll stay on lane 2, and then, indeed, I will have to break sharply, as I would not be able to come back to lane 3 without smashing the motorbiker.

By that you can see, that if you don’t indicate, I have to take a risk of having to slow down to your speed if you stay on lane 2, or I just stay on my lane and the motorbiker will have to slow down. If you indicate, I will change lane to nale 2 knowing, that you will leave it soon and the motorbiker will can drive with his speed. It cost you nothing and it’s help us two, so what the point in NOT signalling?

Should a parked car indicate when you pass it because a bike comes up behind you ?

No, becouse parked car is not doing any maneuvres, unlike lorry driver, who’s changing lanes.

Once you move out from lane 1, you are responsible for your actions, not the people you are passing.
No Sorry, I meant, You are always responsible for your actions. Don’t try to pass the buck onto me !

Off course. I do not expect you to be responsible for MY actions. But I expect you to do YOUR ACTIONS properly. There is very well known British road rule “mirror signal maneuvre”. It’s not “mirror, signal (unless you think that it’s pointless), maneuvre”. So unless it’s really pointless, SIGNAL YOUR ACTIONS. If there is the smallest doubt if it’s pointless or not, you have to. And if there are some vehicles arround you, you can’t know if someone will need this indicating. And even if it’s not essential for me, but simply helpful, it’s not you to judge it. Your duty is to signal your maneuvres and that’s it. I may want to let the motorbiker pass or not. You MUST indicate, when changing lanes:

The Highway Code
Multi-lane carriageways (133-143)
Lane discipline
133

If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

There aren’t any exceptions here. It’s not written

“If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users unless you are changing from lane 2 to lane 1 in front of the vehicle you just had overtaken and you are really, really sure, that you don’t have to.”.

Simply rule: Want to change lane? M-S-M.

69

If a truck is in lane 2 and I am in my vehicle (van/car - whatever) in lane 3 and I am wanting to go into lane 2 to let another in lane 3 pass me then I do not need an indicator from the truck in lane 2 because as soon as it starts to physically move across into lane 1 then that is my cue to start my move into lane 2.
I am not interested if it indicates or not - it is that movement what matters.

If I was to indicate then I can almost guarantee that the vehicle waiting behind me will accelerate as soon as I do so and start getting even closer to my rear !!

All the above is on the assumption that no other road user needs to know of my intention because of a possible conflict situation being developed.

70

ROG:
If a truck is in lane 2 and I am in my vehicle (van/car - whatever) in lane 3 and I am wanting to go into lane 2 to let another in lane 3 pass me then I do not need an indicator from the truck in lane 2 because as soon as it starts to physically move across into lane 1 then that is my cue to start my move into lane 2.
I am not interested if it indicates or not - it is that movement what matters.

I can’t agree. Let’s see the situation where the lorry is some distance in front of you. In that case if he’ll indicate, you can change lane as you know, that he’ll be out of your lane before you rich him.

If you’ll wait until he’ll change his lane, you will have to wait longer before you decide to change lane and therefore you’ll blocking vehicle behind for longer.

See in Germany - everyone are signaling their intention clearly and driving with consideration for other road users - that why German motorway is much more pleasants to drive than British one (apart of that people in UK are more kindly to let you into their lane).

And i’m suprising that you are saying that, ROG. If movements matters, what’s the point in indicating AT ALL? You will see that I am turning right when I will start to, don’t you?

Or maybe abandon the stop lights? You, so good driver, will certainly spot that I am breaking sharply… :smiling_imp:

71

Your in lane two and have overtaken the vehicle and are pulling away then to indicate is pointless although I do it anyway but it is not a legal requirement and no fault is given in your test.

I would assume that if someone was in the hard shoulder when you did this then you would get a mark or if the traffic in lane 2 is slowing you down for some reason and you changed lane while the vehicle in lane 1 was catching you, think that would be a test fail whether you signalled or not though. :laughing:

Signalling is done to avoid a collision not to help a bike overtake a sprinter van quicker.

72

aranger:
Signalling is done to avoid a collision not to help a bike overtake a sprinter van quicker.

I agree, that it won’t be a major fault. But I can’t agree with above statement.

As far as I am concerned, signaling is done to show the other road users what do you want to do. There is no other reason specificated.

73

Not even a minor fault, the van in lane 3 should never dare enter my lane till I have carried out my manouvre signal or no, then he better signal so we don`t collide in the middle lane if I want to pull out again.

If he does move into my lane before the lane is free then hell mend him if I only dropped my ■■■. :laughing:

74

You don’t understand.

I don’t mean entering the lane when you are on it.

I mean if you drive some distance in front of me and I have to choose between enter the lane 2 and then

  • you will pull back to lane 1 and I will can continue my speed
  • you will stay in lane 2 and I will have to slow down or go back to lane 3.

If you don’t indicate I don’t know if you want to stay on this lane or not, so I won’t take the risk.

If you indicate I can pull into lane 2 as before I will catch you up, you will change your lane.

75

Sorry Orys but I do get what you mean but whether I signal or not makes no difference when moving to lane one.

If I signal and you see it and say thanks I shall pull in behind as he will be out my road then you are taking a chance end of.

You should be wary if a signal may mean you could be in danger and use it as an aid to anticipate another drivers movement but its the actual manoeuvre you should be looking out for.

Do you pull out at junctions before a vehicle slows or starts to turn because someone has their indicator on.

Someone indicates to move from lane 2 to lane 1 you wait till he at least starts to move before you change and even then you make sure theres no chance you are hitting him if he changes his mind so a signal is merely a courtesy and serves no real purpose other than that, you wouldnt pull in till he starts his manoeuvre would you.

76

Grayham:
…truckers who dont ‘say thankyou’ when you flash them in, either from a slip road or overtaking?

Im new here, am 25 and have been driving class 1 for two years now (wagon and drag), always wanted to join a forum like this for truckers and get a broad opinion on certain things, and this one thing has been boiling my pee for a while now :imp:

Really annoys me when you flash someone in from a slip road or when theyve overtaken you, and they either pull in with no indication, indicate in and dont flip the indicators or hazards to say thanks, or just seem to carry on for another lorry length or two and then pull in :unamused:

Now i accept that car/van drivers and foreign lorries probrably wouldnt understand this british custom, and that 7.5 tonners may not either as most of them are just starting out on the road of trucking, but class 1 and 2 drivers? just downright rude in my opinion, i know its not a written rule but your trying to help a fellow trucker out and you dont get thanks in return, even more annoying when you see them further up the road passing another trucker, and saying thanks to them, WTF?!?!?!? :confused:

Now dont get me wrong im a nice guy, i dont go around with a huge chip on my soldier etc, but would love to hear your opinions on this :smiley:

Anyway hope to see you all on the roads in good terms :grimacing:

Gray

Here’s a thought !! Don’t flash them, don’t flash anybody, just drive your own truck and leave them to driver theirs !!!
I could well be wrong, its just an idea, an alternative view point if you like.

77

aranger:
You should be wary if a signal may mean you could be in danger and use it as an aid to anticipate another drivers movement but its the actual manoeuvre you should be looking out for.

Off course. But if you don’t signal, chances that you stay on lane 2 are big. If you signal, chances that you stay on lane 2 are really slim.

As I won’t change a lane without being sure that I won’t hit you if you don’t change the lane, this is only thing about comfort of my and motorbiker driving (I won’t change lane for him if I will have, say, 60% chance that I will have to slow down, but if the chance is, say, 2%, I will do it for him).

78

Close your eyes Orys and imagine this is really happening I bet you don`t change lane till I start to move over even with a signal. :laughing:

A 2% chance is too high.

Don`t close your eyes for too long though as you will fall asleep behind the wheel and wake up with your napper through the computer screen. :laughing:

79

I think its more annoying than not being thanked when other drivers (yes, lots of truck drivers do it also) indicate & move at the same time. (more so when moving out to the right). An indicator is to tell other road users what you plan to do in the near future, not what you are doing now… we can already see that.
How many car drivers do see already crossing the white line into the exit sliproad & THEN indicate?

For clarification, what Rog & Smoker have said is correct, it is NOT normally necessary to indicate to RETURN to the left lane from L2. The Highway Code says Drive on the Left, so it should be expected you will return there when it is safe to do so.

80

Dunno then?:
‘…Have you ever considered a job in the civil service? There must be a vacancy in the ministry for Gibberish!..’

Move on, mate.