I was referring to cyclists and motorcyclists undertaking LGVs in the process of turning left - the kind of accident that often gets a driver into hot water, regardless of “who’s fault the accident was”.
I wonder if our media reporting system is unfit for purpose - in that they write articles for newspapers before a case has concluded.
In my opinion - this could prejudice the case.
Court reporting should not be published until after any trials/hearings/inquests have all been completed.
Lhrlass:
I can assure you that the two people tragically killed in this incident were far from frail elderly people portrayed in the ‘we don’t care what we print as long as we sell papers’ media. They both cared for their disabled daughter, so would hardly have been carers if they were not fit for this role, and due to their daughter being disabled they also took on the role of parents rather than grand-parents to their grand-children. To say “they could not have been concentrating or were hard of hearing not to hear the reverse beeper” is quite an ignorant comment, as that is an assumption, obviously based due to the media stating they were ‘OAPs’ and therefore stereotyping thinking they were hard of hearing; the facts are that neither of them had problems with hearing, eyesight or mobility, they were fitter and more active than people less than half their age. As you would be aware, lorries don’t have to have beepers, but if they are fitted it would be a MOT failure if it was not working. How this happened has thrown people who knew them well as they would also be aware just how safety conscious and alert they were and didn’t take any chances. The gentleman involved used to drive all manner and types of vehicles from heavy farm machinery to goods vehicles, so was very aware of lorries and their surroundings. The lady involved also drove and would have been aware of vehicles and how they were operated.Also, the photograph of the ‘Scene of lorry accident’ The Sun published was nowhere near the scene, what they printed was the entrance and exit of the road leading to the Tesco store (known as Escot Road). The Sun did manage to get the fact they were married correct, unlike the Mirror, though they got their home town wrong, the ages they didn’t know, and the people that have been quoted in local papers (to the accident) said they arrived afterwards and did not see it happen, it has been said that the lorry was going forwards and others saying it was reversing, so if people were unaware, the papers certainly would be too.
I sincerely hope that the comment “They died because of their own stupid fault”. is not directed at the couple who sadly lost their lives in Sunbury, but I don’t think I would be shocked if it was, not because of the people commenting in this forum, but by the media printing incorrect information and portraying them as if they were in the wrong, of course, I am also not saying that it was the driver’s, I can imagine he is suffering too. What I do know though is the papers were just printing this for filling up column inches and didn’t care what they put in the papers or on the websites! This has caused a lot of damage to a heartbroken family, which people seem to have forgotten about. The distraught family and friends of the couple didn’t have the chance to say their goodbyes, and have the image of their loved ones taking their last breaths laying on the road in a public place without them being with them holding them and trying to comfort them and their loved ones being surrounded by strangers; they also have a lot of unanswered questions which is tormenting for them to say the least. All of us have people we love, imagine if it was them and they had their lives cut short and you were denied being able to say goodbye and telling them how much you loved them and not knowing or understanding why and how it could possibly happen. Where this couple were walking is frequented constantly by many people of all different ages, it could have literally been anyone of any age that this happened too. There is a purpose built bridge from Tesco to the Sunbury Cross shopping precinct which also includes a ramp for wheelchairs/pushchairs etc., so it is almost encouraging people to walk between the two, I have walked this route on countless occasions before, as have many others who have and still continue to do.
What I am basically saying is please don’t jump to false conclusions based on what a tacky tabloid has published, this couple were fit and active, and had absolutely nothing wrong with their vision, hearing or mobility. They would also have been able to have run out of the way if they sensed danger, there are question marks as to how it could have happened, and it is deeply upsetting to see the media printing utter nonsense about two very dear people who were much loved in their community who did so much for many people.
Unfortunately, comments of this kind are going to be inevitable from lorry drivers simply because pedestrians walking behind whilst you are reversing is such a common occurrence and I’ve lost count of the number of times my subconscious has caught some movement in a mirror, I have then paused, and shortly a pedestrian has reappeared from the other side.
This is a tragic incident involving a 7.5t delivery truck where the driver was at fault and had basically got into a strop when someone asked him to move so he did so aggressively, did not look what he was doing and killed a child - just as an example of how pedestrians can not always be responsible for putting themselves in danger
All I know is general public seem to lose all sense off self preservation when they get near an HGV. A mate off mine drives for a scaffolding firm, he’s into London everyday, recently the firm has had n/s and rear facing cameras linked to a screen in the cab fitted, also a rather annoying, and it would appear pointless siren along the lines same lines as the "this vehicle is reversing " ones in regular use, only that his siren hales “this vehicle is turning left” in conjuntion with a device that we all have known as an indicator. But on a daily basis this siren is ignored, mainly by the Lycra clad army, and yet it is for they’re safety, what is the point 
I know nothing about what happened in Sunbury, apart from it being an incredibly sad affair all ways round. Not being tncsi qualified I’ll not be judge jury and executioner.
But as drivers we all know that large goods vehicles and other road users dont mix well, and other will normally come off worst, so it is incumbant on us to think not only for ourselves, but for others too. Sorry was that a bit preachy 
truckman020:
Pimpdaddy:
Just yesterday I was reversing & another truck driver though it was a good idea to open the door & walk behind as I’m reversing, apologised after he realised how silly & dangerous his actions were.unusual for a driver to do it
I once had a similar incident with a banksman, kept disappearing from my line off sight, so I stopped he would then pop out from behind the trailer shouting for me to keep going, after nicely trying to explain about being able to see him whilst he reversed me for his safety, the 3rd time he did it I let rip, too which he stropped off to get the foreman who came to give me grief for using abusive language. So I stropped off to the firms reception and demanded to see someone in charge off Elf n safety, eventualy a bloke comes over. I explained what had gone on, and he gave the Foreman right mouthful, at this point I was starting to enjoy the charade, as was the Banksman, never a bad thing to see managers taking verbal lumps out off each other. Anyway problem was resolved, well between me and the banksman, I appoligised for my language, and he kept in my line off sight whilst the manouver was completed 
Havent been back since, cant think why 
Wherever there is uncontrolled movement, i.e public wandering about, there should be a banksman to be your eyes and ears at the back as you reverse.
I suspect we’ll be reading about a HSE prosecution at some point.
The industry having a reputation for employing “halfway house” and “6 points OK” types does not help the public perception of us drivers either. 
The child killed in the above article was run over by an ex-con with a short fuse in one of his normal daily strops…
This, in turn, bumped his crime up to “dangerous” rather than careless driving. I’m surprised it wasn’t furious driving, but that particular offence may not have been around in 2001 for all I know. 
There is a great danger right now in my opinion - that firms struggling to get drivers - especially for the crappier jobs - will elect to employ large numbers of sub-standard and ex-con drivers instead of bumping up pay to encourage some decent staff to come off other jobs to do it - which is how a market is supposed to work. 
I know a lot of the bereaved families are more blaming the style of lorries rather than the drivers, as per this quote from an article on a news website in regard to cyclists:-
“The bereaved relatives of cyclists killed by lorries have pleaded for changes to outdated safety rules in a bid to save thousands of lives a year.
Length limits currently imposed on lorries encourage manufacturers to build driver cabs that are short and flat-fronted in order to maximise capacity at the rear. This creates cabs with small windows and extensive blind-spots and increases the risk of people being pushed under the wheels.
Lorry drivers are involved in more than 4,000 pedestrian and cyclist deaths across Europe each year and typically account for more than half of cycling fatalities in London, despite making up just five per cent of traffic.”
My daughter’s friend was tragically taken a few years ago, and where we all initially thought that it was the driver who was to blame (I suppose we couldn’t bare to think that it was a child who had just turned 14 a few days before), it turns out that it was the young lad wearing headphones and cycling in the path of the lorry who braked, but it was too late. I have also heard that the driver of the lorry took his own life as he couldn’t bare to live with the fact that he had taken a child’s life, even though it was not his fault. That incident which was a tragic accident has now taken two lives and has had a huge impact on the two families directly involved, plus their friends and obviously the people who witnessed it.
With regard to the Sunbury incident, I am not sure if the vehicle was reversing or not, as like I said earlier, it has been reported that it was going forwards and also going backwards, but as the majority of the papers including the local ones got the majority of their ‘facts’ incorrect I wouldn’t take anything they print or display on a website as actual news of this incident.
Getting back to the vehicles, I still cannot fathom how with the amount of victims (injured and fatal) that they haven’t made a lot of compulsory measures. There should be reversing beepers on every hgv (or similar) vehicle plus a banksman where there is even the slightest possibility of people being in the near vicinity where they have to reverse. It would be even better if it were made compulsory that all vehicles with no visibility of a rear view mirror would be fitted with a rear facing camera system and sensors, this may incur extra cost, but no amount of money can replace a life taken.
We all know that sometimes it is the driver’s fault and sometimes it is not, but adding extra compulsory safety measures surely would surely benefit driver and the general public.
It always puzzles me how supposedly health and safety compliant companies especially the bigger supermarkets insist on hi vis jackets ,gloves boots etc for almost every driving activity including walking across the yard to go to the toilet, yet feel it is perfectly acceptable for artics to have to carry out a blind side reverse in an overcrowded carpark with pedestrians and vehicles continually passing either side of and behind the vehicle while the driver attempts to carry out this exercise single handedly without the area being closed off or without the aid of a banksman. It would be interesting to see a meaningful risk assessment for some of these supermarket locations.
It always puzzles me how supposedly health and safety compliant companies especially the bigger supermarkets insist on hi vis jackets ,gloves boots etc for almost every driving activity including walking across the yard to go to the toilet, yet feel it is perfectly acceptable for artics to have to carry out a blind side reverse in an overcrowded carpark with pedestrians and vehicles continually passing either side of and behind the vehicle while the driver attempts to carry out this exercise single handedly without the area being closed off or without the aid of a banksman. It would be interesting to see a meaningful risk assessment for some of these supermarket locations.
Driver is charged with death by dangerous driving (times two).
getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey- … hs-8879443
“The man, aged in his 40s and from Northamptonshire, will appear in court on March 25 on two counts of causing death by dangerous driving”
Another victim bless her,
I don’t know the family in the tragedy below, but again, near Heathrow area. My heart goes out to yet another family going through grief.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-33362536
& to put it into perspective regarding her age (there have been some disgusting comments on a local website), the Queen is 90 and her husband older and no one would say that they were frail. I wholly sympathise with her family and friends.
amamdada:
It always puzzles me how supposedly health and safety compliant companies especially the bigger supermarkets insist on hi vis jackets ,gloves boots etc for almost every driving activity including walking across the yard to go to the toilet, yet feel it is perfectly acceptable for artics to have to carry out a blind side reverse in an overcrowded carpark with pedestrians and vehicles continually passing either side of and behind the vehicle while the driver attempts to carry out this exercise single handedly without the area being closed off or without the aid of a banksman. It would be interesting to see a meaningful risk assessment for some of these supermarket locations.
post of the millennium my friend. Thank you. 
Juddian:
I don’t know if they were stupid or not, but according to the link two elderly people, a husband and wife have apparently been killed by a small lorry reversing.There have been kids on bikes riding round delivery points when we’ve trying to deliver there, pedestrians have crossed behind us, cyclists are a law unto themselves, and a myriad of other obstacles trying to get under our wheels, but we are supposed to be professional drivers, it is our job to ensure our path and the area of vehicle sweep is clear.
If there are people about bloody stop…if there’s kids riding bikes round your lorry, bloody stop and don’t move till they’ve buggered off, go and get a cup of tea the kids’ll soon get bored and sling their hooks.
80 year olds do not suddenly appear from nowhere.
You can be as defensive as you want, none of us know what has happened here, except for one thing…an old couple are dead before their time and its a bloody tragedy, and its another episode our industry could do without.
+1
Am I missing something here? I have just skipped through a few of the comments but from what I can gather it was a rigid vehicle.
So please tell me how people can walk behind it without the driver seeing them? When a truck is reversing it should be traveling at about 2mph and there are two big mirrors on the vehicle so how can a driver fail to see pedestrians walking behind him?
Sorry but it seriously baffles me.
Silver_Surfer:
I’ve very nearly run someone over whilst they were walking directly in front of the wagon an inch from the bonnet.
Same thing happened to me…and he was the H&S manager for the premises …Needless to say he apologised and saw the error of his ways after a few choice words, and admitted he had no idea of the whys and wherefores of maneuvering an artic…
Kate:
Silver_Surfer:
I’ve very nearly run someone over whilst they were walking directly in front of the wagon an inch from the bonnet.Same thing happened to me…and he was the H&S manager for the premises …Needless to say he apologised and saw the error of his ways after a few choice words, and admitted he had no idea of the whys and wherefores of maneuvering an artic…
Kate why would a person (even if he was a H&S manager) have any idea about how to maneuvre an artic?
That is not his responsibility but it is the responsibility of the driver to notice who walks in front of their truck and take the correct action if they do.
PS. A lot of lorry drivers do not know the whys and wherefores of manouvering an artic as you put it.
So please tell me how people can walk behind it without the driver seeing them? When a truck is reversing it should be traveling at about 2mph and there are two big mirrors on the vehicle so how can a driver fail to see pedestrians walking behind him?
That was my initial thought too. I can make allowances for an artic driver but surely not as easy to miss pedestrians near you in a rigid, especially when reversing, as the driver would be watching the mirrors almost 100% of the time.
albion1971:
Kate:
Silver_Surfer:
I’ve very nearly run someone over whilst they were walking directly in front of the wagon an inch from the bonnet.Same thing happened to me…and he was the H&S manager for the premises …Needless to say he apologised and saw the error of his ways after a few choice words, and admitted he had no idea of the whys and wherefores of maneuvering an artic…
Kate why would a person (even if he was a H&S manager) have any idea about how to maneuvre an artic?
That is not his responsibility but it is the responsibility of the driver to notice who walks in front of their truck and take the correct action if they do.PS. A lot of lorry drivers do not know the whys and wherefores of manouvering an artic as you put it.
So…the drivers aren’t allowed in the area of a moving overhead crane on his premises… and pedestrians are not allowed in the area of a maneuvering vehicle on his premises… evidently except him… and he was the one who created and implemented the safety plan… The only reason he didn’t get run over was because I did see him… H&S bods are supposed to reduced the risk factors…not become one.
After skipping through the comments on here I thought this terrible accident had just recently happened, however just noticed it was July 14 so it’s a bit of a thread revival.
Driver was last due in court on 1st July 15 but no news on the result.
getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey- … er-9019501
I have to say that with this current craze of buying dashcams to keep youtube well stocked, perhaps they are being mounted at the wrong end.
Kate:
albion1971:
Kate:
Silver_Surfer:
I’ve very nearly run someone over whilst they were walking directly in front of the wagon an inch from the bonnet.Same thing happened to me…and he was the H&S manager for the premises …Needless to say he apologised and saw the error of his ways after a few choice words, and admitted he had no idea of the whys and wherefores of maneuvering an artic…
Kate why would a person (even if he was a H&S manager) have any idea about how to maneuvre an artic?
That is not his responsibility but it is the responsibility of the driver to notice who walks in front of their truck and take the correct action if they do.PS. A lot of lorry drivers do not know the whys and wherefores of manouvering an artic as you put it.
So…the drivers aren’t allowed in the area of a moving overhead crane on his premises… and pedestrians are not allowed in the area of a maneuvering vehicle on his premises… evidently except him… and he was the one who created and implemented the safety plan… The only reason he didn’t get run over was because I did see him… H&S bods are supposed to reduced the risk factors…not become one.
You failed to mention that in your first post. Sorry but I am not a mind reader.
del949:
So please tell me how people can walk behind it without the driver seeing them? When a truck is reversing it should be traveling at about 2mph and there are two big mirrors on the vehicle so how can a driver fail to see pedestrians walking behind him?
That was my initial thought too. I can make allowances for an artic driver but surely not as easy to miss pedestrians near you in a rigid, especially when reversing, as the driver would be watching the mirrors almost 100% of the time.
+1
Don’t a lot of yards have signs up like "No reversing without a banksman"?
…So… You turn up in the yard, have a tricky reverse to do, and guess what? - Trying to find ANY member of staff - let alone a “banksman” (Does he work for Lloyds?) is like trying to find Unicorn turds.
These problems don’t exist on nights of course - one of the main reasons I prefer it.
I’m so used to being on my own, that if someone I’ve never seen before (ie anyone at all!) approaches me without uniform, or some way I can identify them - I’m twitching my swordarm already!
There’s plenty of drivers that are at more risk from “the public” than the public are from any hasty vehicle movements on the site.