Help required with reply to VOSA Letter

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi Guys,
We had a vehicle stopped by Vosa in July at Sittingbourne, Kent and a PG9 issued in respect of no wing tops on the unit, it’s a lowride tractor unit with a mega trailer, so you have to remove the wing tops otherwise they catch on the trailer !!

Anyway, from this I have now received the following letter Vosa asking for the following information following a recent telephone call from person at Purfleet Vosa office, due to his attitude I asked him to put in writing his request and the following is what he require’s:

  1. All analogue Tachograph charts produced by your company between the dates 18th June 2012 and 31st July 2012
    NOT A PROBLEM

  2. All digital driver card data etc BUT we do not have any Digi tachographs in our vehicles so not applicable.
    NOT A PROBLEM

  3. All digital unit (VU) raw data, again not applicable we don’t have any.
    NOT A PROBLEM

  4. Copies of Driving Licences of all drivers within your control between the dates 18th June 2012 and 31st July 2012
    NOT A PROBLEM

  5. Copies of pay records of all drivers within your control between 18th June 2012 and 31st July 2012

  6. Time sheets for all drivers within your control between 18th June 2012 and 31st July 2012

  7. All fuel receipts for the period 18th June 2012 and 31st July 2012

I am aware from our telephone conversation that your company hire vehicles when required, with this in mind the following is required.

  1. All hire agreements of vehicles hired by you since 1st August 2011 showing the names and addresses of the hiring companies.

I am informed by the examiner that checked your vehicle on the 18th July 2012 that you have registered trailers outside of the UK, with this in mind, the following is required

  1. Copies of any documentation that shows the registering elsewhere of any vehicles or trailers within your control since 1st August 2011

With regard to the keeping of the Working Time Directive records, the following is required,

  1. All Company Working Time Directive records since 1st August 2011

As an alternative when complying with the above, you may contact me to make arrangements for their collection.

If sent by post, please use recorded delivery and endorse the envelope FAO VOSA

That’s the contents of their letter to the word.
So this is a result of having a few words on the phone with the examiner and calling him a [zb] idiot in regard to issuing a GV9 in respect of the wing tops, because the vehicle was totally legal and no defects apart for the wing tops, which was not an offence, but he would not have it and also on the GV9 was a Full test !!! not partial, it’s my own fault I always tell the drivers not to argue with Vosa or the police and I forgot !! so this is what you get, great country to operate trucks.

So now I would like some help regarding the following questions: 1 to 4 are no problem,
but question 5, can they legally ask for pay slips ■■? I would have thought that the driver would have to give his consent for this info to be given first.
Question 6. we do not have time sheets, the drivers are paid either an agreed day rate plus expenses or weekly agreed figure and keep to tachograph rules and reg’s
Question 7. All fuel receipts for the period, this again is data that I feel is beyond there remit or authority ?

Question 8.No Problem

Question 9. we do traction only work now which are foreign trailers and again and do not have any foreign registered
trailers so not a problem, by the way the vehicle stopped at Sittingbourne on the 18th July 2012 had a foreign trailer behind him doing traction only

Question 10. Now this one I have a problem, we run a few Merc sprinters which come under the UK driving reg’s and WTD
I think, but all the vehicles over 3.5ton come under the EU reg’s because all our vehicles operate into Europe all year, So can someone please advise because having looked through the forum most are saying don’t worry about WTD they never ask about this, Well they have now, so can you give me some info/help on this.

Best regards

JJSL

2

I would think that what you have been requested to supply is in response to your attitude,you may further your problems by seeking advice on this website some of which can be very good but most will be hearsay might I suggest you seek legal advice from a transport legal eagle,Vosa now operates on the basis that it is too
expensive for we peasants to take them on,no matter how corrupt Vosa tries to be.You could in the first instance write to Alex Fiddes CEO of Vosa include what
you have been sent and point out that you believe this Vosa operative is abusing his office and acting in a fit of pique.A cheap start.As for the WTD seems no one
has been charged yet,you could be famous and be the first.

3

Hi Armagedon,

many thanks for your info, might have to speak to someone whom is a bit more up to speed on WTD, but I know that some of the guys on this site are very good, I will just have to look at the replies and see what info comes back.

Best regards

JJSL

4

You appear to have stirred a hornets nest and he seems to have taken it personally :open_mouth: I have been involved in one of these visits and they leave no stone unturned, they will probably ask any staff around some questions too, including yard and fitting staff.

If you prevent them, they may bring in the big guns with warrants and possible arrests.

eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 88:EN:HTML

What I would say about the WTD is that if your drivers are fairly squeaky clean with the EU legislation, the WTD/RTD should follow somewhere closely. It was VOSA themselves who said that they would not normally be prosecuting anyone and would concentrate on the drivers hours rules.

I don’t think withholding any of the requested stuff will help you, they will not disclose details to anyone else and even if it goes before a TC, financial documents and evidence are studied in private.

You could write to Alec Fiddes, but he will probably just say it is a random site inspection which follows a PG9

businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES

Or you could simply have a robbery or a fire :stuck_out_tongue:

5

Jeez, what a bunch of little hitlers.

Bordering on harassment if you ask me. The vehicle was legal in the first place, you don’t need wing tops if you’ve got a trailer on the unit. Ok you shouldn’t have called the guy on the phone 'kin idiot but the amount of the requested information is hardly a proportional response.

Why not just ask for the tachos and the maintenance docs. They are purely just giving you loads of work to do for showing your exasperation and not acting like a robot.

Mayhap if someone higher up in VOSA is reading this, they may reign the attack dogs in a bit… or you may just have to bend over and whistle rule britannia. :unamused:

6

Hi Guys,

Well many thanks for the input and I do not have a problem regarding tacho hours long gone are the days of running to ? and back in a week southern Italy/Spain, and maintenance is not a problem, we service and do the inspections because it’s to costly not too.

Yes, it’s my fault for having a bad day, then the vehicle gets stopped and I go nuts !!!

Any idea regarding the requests for fuel receipts ? under which section are they allowed to request this and also
the drivers pay slips, it’s not a problem, but I do not want to give them documents to which they are not entitled.

Best regards

JJSL

7

JJSL:
Hi Guys,

Well many thanks for the input and I do not have a problem regarding tacho hours long gone are the days of running to ? and back in a week southern Italy/Spain, and maintenance is not a problem, we service and do the inspections because it’s to costly not too.

Yes, it’s my fault for having a bad day, then the vehicle gets stopped and I go nuts !!!

Any idea regarding the requests for fuel receipts ? under which section are they allowed to request this and also
the drivers pay slips, it’s not a problem, but I do not want to give them documents to which they are not entitled.

Best regards

JJSL

I imagine they will cross ref fuel receipts with tacos distance travelled etc and prob what mode tacho was showing when refuelling
I e should be on ova work and not rest they will have you for that
Good luck

8

Maybe it would just be better to swamp them with so many documents that they just give up?

Send them any fuel receipt you can lay your hands on, send them copies of your fuel invoices etc.

It was your bad in rousing their ire, your best approach now would to be as superficially helpful as possible, sending them the information they want in dribs and drabs and constantly asking for clarification on further points. If you keep it respectful and polite they will eventually go away.

9

Hi Harry,

Thanks for the post, I’m always respectful !!! I just [zb] up now and again, that’s why I love this business ? well 10 maybe 15 years ago it was great fun and you could earn a good living from transport together with the drivers earning as well, but now days it’s not the type of business that many people want to get into plus a lot of young people do not want to drive and spend nights out.

Also, Vosa were a different mob then, you could talk to them and sort out any problems and carry on but now it’s about Push Push and get as many as you can etc etc

Best regards

JJSL

10

Hi Monarch,

Yes I have a very good idea why they require this info and it’s not a problem because running in Europe you do not want to run bent because the fines are out of this world !!! So, it’s run legal, my point is what are they legally allowed to request !!
and under which section of the law it shows this info.

So if anyone can point me in the right direction as to where it’s says Vosa are entitled to fuel receipts and drivers wage slips then no problem ? Data protection Act may apply, no I could not be that cruel ?

Regards

JJSL

11

The vosa guy feels put down and is after enough data to burn you.
Two plans.
A letter to him making clear how verry verry sorry you are for your outburst:grin: in the hope that he has calmed down and will reconsider.
Plan b, as Harry says spin it out.

In my experience any legal advisor who knows what they are talking about in this field quote at £2000 plus.

12

Harry Monk:
Maybe it would just be better to swamp them with so many documents that they just give up?

Send them any fuel receipt you can lay your hands on, send them copies of your fuel invoices etc.

It was your bad in rousing their ire, your best approach now would to be as superficially helpful as possible, sending them the information they want in dribs and drabs and constantly asking for clarification on further points. If you keep it respectful and polite they will eventually go away.

+1
I think this would be my tack. I would also first clarify if photocopies are acceptable as in all seriousness you don’t want to end up with a tax inspection, or something, and find VOSA have got all your fuel receipts. Alternatively, though by sending originals you can pester for them back.

I’m not sure there’s any legal requirement to keep fuel receipts though if you get invoiced monthly for all fuel spend, or some similar arrangement. Same with wage slips you might just have to supply them broad payroll data if keeping copies isn’t something you do.

Wing tops do need to be on/in the unit (even if not in their proper place due to low-ride + trailer) though otherwise you’re an easy target for them. Is annoying though as it kind of suggests VOSAs primary objective is disrupting operator’s that annoy them rather than the most unsafe which sounds like it’s the case here.

13

Hi Own Account Driver,

Well it worth a try, so I will write to them tomorrow and ask a few questions etc and see how that go’s.

many thanks for your info.

Best regards

JJSL

14

Hi bazstan009

Sorry I missed your post at first and thank you for your time and comments.

Best regards

JJSL

15

I dont know what they’re legally entitled to request but as they have requested it and youve nothing to hide just send the stuff to them anyway. You could always ring them up and ask them if they are legally entitled to all the things theyve asked for but chanves are they will be. To be fair to our lot they aint as bad as the euros for trying to pump the beejezus out of you.

16

Dear Scumbag,

I am intrigued as to why you issued a restriction on my vehicle regarding the non fitment of wing covers due to the low ride height of my unit and trailer this I do
believe is not an offence could you forward the relevant legislation regarding this issue.
As regards requiring other documentation could you clarify your legal right to require fuel receipts.
I am concerned since I believe in a fit of pique you have chosen to abuse your office.

Love and kisses
Your worst Nightmare,
The Trucker from Hell

This should work.

17

Hi Silver Surfer and Armagedon,

Two different view points there !!!

So I think I will make a few phone calls to see if I can find out the legal position regarding the requests that Vosa
have made and then go from there. However I would love to sent them your email Armagedon, but that would
be for when I’m ready to retire Ha ha !!!

thank you both for your comments

Best regards

JJSL

18

Hi

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but he can ask for everything he has asked for, you should by law have it all to hand or available.

And IMHO the request is a reaction to the roadside attitude.

And wing tops are only a legal requirement where the unit is not pulling a trailer

Cheers

Andy

19

A roadside attitude brought about by the ignorance/incompetence of a jobsworth.

20

Armagedon:
A roadside attitude brought about by the ignorance/incompetence of a jobsworth.

More than correct