Assuming you’ve not been given any actual pre arranged route by the guvnor and defied it then surely routing is at the driver’s choice/discretion within reason.I’d doubt that using the orbital motorway/trunk route for that run would fit the definition of not within reason.The only main drawback that would make me think twice about using it being the possibility of the M25 being known for going from flowing to hours long jam and delay in a matter of minutes because of the latest accident etc.In which case personally I now often treat the whole area within it just as it was before the M25 was built.
As for disciplinary in the case of no actual orders concerning route and for using my own discretion/choice in that case I think I’d walk away and go for constructive dismissal bearing in mind that in most cases if you can’t win that then you also can’t win a case of unfair dismissal either.Which is where such a disciplinary regime would probably end up anyway sooner or later.
There is a huge gap between unfair and constructive dismissal. None of which apply here at this stage.
Doing the wrong thing now will jeopardise any future case that may evolve.
Does the OP have a date for this meeting yet? This is the most useful time to nip things in the bud.
Honked:
There is a huge gap between unfair and constructive dismissal. None of which apply here at this stage.
I’ve always seen the only difference as being walk away before being pushed.The level of proof of wrong doing by the employer needed to be shown will be around the same.In the case of constructive that just means showing victimisation to the point where the employee decided to walk away.In which case being disciplined for going ‘off route’ if/when there is no company route given seems good enough in that regard to me.
I’d say “Well, I’ll tell you what, I’ll go sit in the office and you can go out driving the truck, because you obviously know a lot more about it than I do”.
For all of the aggravation that goes with it, this is why I still muddle on as an owner driver. Even the taxman is less of a headache than an idiot transport manager. Try phoning him up at four o’clock in the morning on his emergency number and saying “I’m at a set of traffic lights, do you think I should turn right or left?”
Carryfast:
I’ve always seen the only difference as being walk away before being pushed.The level of proof of wrong doing by the employer needed to be shown will be around the same.In the case of constructive that just means showing victimisation to the point where the employee decided to walk away.In which case being disciplined for going ‘off route’ if/when there is no company route given seems good enough in that regard to me.
Unfair dismissal is when you are dismissed in an unfair manner.
Constructive dismissal is when you are pushed to the point of ending your employment.
In both cases it is down to the EMPLOYEE to show the proof of the dismissal. In the CD scenario, it has to be the final straw where no other options are available. The OP has not even had the first stage of the disciplinary yet, if he walks now then he walks away from ALL the protection that the laws give him.
hearing is on Wed morn, when conveniently all other drivers will be out on runs so unavailable to accompany me. I have e-mailed to request alater meeting when my chosen coleague(ex union rep) will be back from his run.
jc69817:
hearing is on Wed morn, when conveniently all other drivers will be out on runs so unavailable to accompany me. I have e-mailed to request alater meeting when my chosen coleague(ex union rep) will be back from his run.
Are you confident that you have all the right information BEFORE you attend this meeting?
I got mider once or twice from the office bods at a company i once worked for, all because i decided to get off the motorway which was at a standstill miles of tailbacks ,and use the "A"roads which is slower due to road layout ie harepin bends ect, as well as having to drive through towns ect, and an abnormal volume of traffic due to the motorway being stuffed,
I got the why did you get off the motorway ? we don’t pay you to think blah blah, then when you ring them and ask for their help,you would get the line your the driver you should know,lol double standards .
Anyhow i sorted things by just sitting in the next traffic jam on the motorway, stop start for miles, remembering and doing as they had said, I got why didn’t you try and find another route? i replied you don’t pay me to think remember ,hence the phone was slammed down and i didn’t hear a peep from them,lol that for me was priceless
tommy t:
I got mider once or twice from the office bods at a company i once worked for, all because i decided to get off the motorway which was at a standstill miles of tailbacks ,and use the "A"roads which is slower due to road layout ie harepin bends ect, as well as having to drive through towns ect, and an abnormal volume of traffic due to the motorway being stuffed,
I got the why did you get off the motorway ? we don’t pay you to think blah blah, then when you ring them and ask for their help,you would get the line your the driver you should know,lol double standards .
Anyhow i sorted things by just sitting in the next traffic jam on the motorway, stop start for miles, remembering and doing as they had said, I got why didn’t you try and find another route? i replied you don’t pay me to think remember ,hence the phone was slammed down and i didn’t hear a peep from them,lol that for me was priceless
Simple answer, is that you are required by law to think whilst driving,otherwise, you would be done for driving without due care and attention.
tommy t:
I got mider once or twice from the office bods at a company i once worked for, all because i decided to get off the motorway which was at a standstill miles of tailbacks ,and use the "A"roads which is slower due to road layout ie harepin bends ect, as well as having to drive through towns ect, and an abnormal volume of traffic due to the motorway being stuffed,
I got the why did you get off the motorway ? we don’t pay you to think blah blah, then when you ring them and ask for their help,you would get the line your the driver you should know,lol double standards .
Anyhow i sorted things by just sitting in the next traffic jam on the motorway, stop start for miles, remembering and doing as they had said, I got why didn’t you try and find another route? i replied you don’t pay me to think remember ,hence the phone was slammed down and i didn’t hear a peep from them,lol that for me was priceless
That company deserve only the worse numpties available, no driver worth his salt should be working for them, please tell us they went bust and the idiot who spoke like that to you is now unemployed.
‘‘We don’t pay you to think’’ has to go down in history as the most stupid thing ever said to any driver anywhere in the world.
jc69817:
hearing is on Wed morn, when conveniently all other drivers will be out on runs so unavailable to accompany me. I have e-mailed to request alater meeting when my chosen coleague(ex union rep) will be back from his run.
Stick to your guns on this point, if they don’t accommodate your request when this is officially a ‘disciplinary hearing’ rather than a ‘preliminary investigation’ then they will be digging their own grave. So if necessary make sure that you establish by email or writing the status of the meeting. As referred to in the CAB web page a colleague as ‘companion’ is your legal right at a disciplinary. If they refuse either request for a companion or a delayed hearing insist on a written reason.
Here are the basics.
I was tipping in Wallingham surrey at about 14:00 on Wednesday. My next drop was in Blackwall (near Chris Hodge truck sales). Bearing in mind I had been in London multi-dropping all week so I know how the traffic was in the surrounding areas due to school holidays.
My TM has taken exception to my route between these two drops. Can I please ask you what route you would have taken between the 2, not turn by turn just basically would you have gone via local roads or out to M25 round and then into Blackwall.
He says he wouldn’t have done what I did and doesn’t think anyone else would have but I spoke to 2 of our other drivers who say they would have done as I did.
many thanks guys
no brainer! it’s always quicker going out to m25 and back in ask your TM for route card or his personal experience on which way he’s gone in the past! ooooooooppppppppppsssssssss silly me he won’t have driven outside the m60 tell him no problem for your meeting/ disciplinary but please bring in the top dog as you would like it sorting NOW!
‘‘We don’t pay you to think’’ has to go down in history as the most stupid thing ever said to any driver anywhere in the world.
Back in the day, on the buses in Brisbane, I took care of a small kid who was lost on his first solo trip home. I went “off route” and got him home, rather than just dumping the poor little bugger (no mobiles or radios then) then I was told by the depot master that I wasn’t paid to think. Ha ha, worst thing he could possibly have said. Talk about making a rod for your own back.
Back to the op. As others have said, if you don’t have a set route, how the ■■■■ can you get in the ■■■■ for going off it ■■? Do what you’ve been advised. Just ask him which way you should have gone and ask for all routes to be drawn up for you. In fact, all the other drivers should do the same. Above all… DON’T THINK FOR YOURSELF !
robroy:
What is it with some of you lot telling the lad to say Sorry ffs
Wtf for? What has he done wrong exactly, this is exactly why these limpdicks treat drivers as they do…Because you let them!
Tell him to go and [zb] himself and inform him you are looking forward to going into the disciplinary as you will show him up to be what he is a prick who thinks he has too much power for the reason I have given, and that you will tell the Manager or whatever why you took that route and justify it.
Don.t listen to Mary Poppins and her mates about apologising otherwise you have set the precedent for a worklife of hell.
What happened to the days when drivers actually had balls
robroy:
What is it with some of you lot telling the lad to say Sorry ffs
Wtf for? What has he done wrong exactly, this is exactly why these limpdicks treat drivers as they do…Because you let them!
Tell him to go and [zb] himself and inform him you are looking forward to going into the disciplinary as you will show him up to be what he is a prick who thinks he has too much power for the reason I have given, and that you will tell the Manager or whatever why you took that route and justify it.
Don.t listen to Mary Poppins and her mates about apologising otherwise you have set the precedent for a worklife of hell.
What happened to the days when drivers actually had balls
I totally agree with this.
and it only took you nearly 3 years of thinking about it to agree ! …
I’m not going to give you a “what I would do” I have well documented temper issues and losing it has never made the situation better, granted it always feels better at the time, but it lands me in the ■■■■ every time.
Firstly decide what you want. You yourself said it’s time for another job. How easy is it to get one where you live? If it’s c2 multi drop your after, I would assume it’s pretty easy in London. If so take robs advice… trust me, it’s satisfying!
If you do want to hang on to the job, even if it’s just for a few months, stay cool, take someone with you and follow the advice along that vein.
No “armchair warrior” advice, I’m getting more mature in my old age!
But you can’t beat the satisfaction of letting them have their rant, and then calmly asking for a piece of paper and writing the words “1 weeks notice “ signing it and pushing it across the table before smiling and cutting the meeting there and then. Trust me it feels great, like a weight has been lifted, I’ve done it many times and haven’t regretted my actions once. But driving jobs are 10 a penny where I am. I can walk out of one job and a couple minutes f calls to agencies and I will be working before the weekend, not everyone is so blessed with big industrial estates all within a stones throw.
I wish you luck with whatever you decide, my twopence worth is that from what you said in your posts, the job ain’t worth it anyway.
from surrey, you could have gone straight through Croydon, South circular, etc…but its a lot longer with all the traffic…personally i would have gone M25, A2 to Greenwich…then Chris Hodge…thats a very straight forward route, and a lot less traffic.
it’s always quicker going out to m25 and back in 
tell him no problem for your meeting/ disciplinary but please bring in the top dog as you would like it sorting NOW! 