Help on which tacho mode to use?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

pump:
ok so in another recent post the guy used a PAO on a loading bay and this reset his driving hours, and he over did his driving hours because the company said this PAO dose not count to reset his 4.5 hour driving time even though the tacho driving hours will reset to zero.

is this true?

The numb-nuts that designed the digi tacho software decided that is was good idea to have POA and break both be used for driving time breaks !! - dunno why they did that but it catches out a few drivers - only break can legally be used for driving time breaks

That is yet another reason why using POA is not such a good idea

42

pump:
ok so in another recent post the guy used a PAO on a loading bay and this reset his driving hours, and he over did his driving hours because the company said this PAO dose not count to reset his 4.5 hour driving time even though the tacho driving hours will reset to zero.

is this true?

Just as a point of clarification here, it did not reset his driving hours in the legal sense, all it did was to reset the displayed driving hours on the tacho.

43

Lusk:

pump:
ok so in another recent post the guy used a PAO on a loading bay and this reset his driving hours, and he over did his driving hours because the company said this PAO dose not count to reset his 4.5 hour driving time even though the tacho driving hours will reset to zero.

is this true?

Just as a point of clarification here, it did not reset his driving hours in the legal sense, all it did was to reset the displayed driving hours on the tacho.

True but as drivers go on what the display says then it can cause legal issues

44

ROG:
The numb-nuts that designed the digi tacho software decided that is was good idea to have POA and break both be used for driving time breaks !! - dunno why they did that but it catches out a few drivers - only break can legally be used for driving time breaks

That is yet another reason why using POA is not such a good idea

But this goes back to what you said Rog in a previous post with words to the effect of “people think they understand tacho regs but in reality the dont”

I have to say that learning the regs is one thing but then putting them into practise every day and remaining compliant is a completely different kettle of fish. The different examples given on this site though are very useful.

45

I use an analogue tacho but even so I dont trust anything digi so rely on my cheapo timer to keep track of driving :smiley:

46

ROG:

Lusk:

pump:
ok so in another recent post the guy used a PAO on a loading bay and this reset his driving hours, and he over did his driving hours because the company said this PAO dose not count to reset his 4.5 hour driving time even though the tacho driving hours will reset to zero.

is this true?

Just as a point of clarification here, it did not reset his driving hours in the legal sense, all it did was to reset the displayed driving hours on the tacho.

True but as drivers go on what the display says then it can cause legal issues

Totally agree with you…ref my above post. It’s a shame that given this technological day and age that tacho’s are as simplistic as they are.

47

I thought it didn’t count but don’t get why they designed they to count PAO as rest on the display if it don’t count.

Would love to have a look at the new stoneridge tacho they have a app you can download and will use the info from your digi card in the new unit to show you exactly your working times etc on your phone. Sounds like a great idea. Think vdo tachos have the same thing now.

48

Rog, Perhaps you know but do the tacho manufacturers make it known what firmware versions are in use and the changes contained therein? I would presume that somewhere in the tacho options it gives you this information? I note the other day that when I was in a 60 plate motor fitted with Siemens tacho this would actually give you a speed trace print out.

49

Compare the size of a mobile phone and a digi tacho

Now I wonder why it is not easily possible to programme the digi with all the software that covers the EU regs and the RTD

In this technological age it has to be easily done surely?

50

pump:
I thought it didn’t count but don’t get why they designed they to count PAO as rest on the display if it don’t count.Would love to have a look at the new stoneridge tacho they have a app you can download and will use the info from your digi card in the new unit to show you exactly your working times etc on your phone. Sounds like a great idea. Think vdo tachos have the same thing now.

I dont get it either as it just leads to confusion and of course infringements hence my comments about you needing to keep a note, mental or otherwise, of where, time wise, you are during the course of the day.

51

ROG:

Euro:
all this is fairly academic unless something horrible happens. Then the driver will be in the dock/witness box and a snotty lawyer will ask him,
“During this break you say you took, were you freely able to dispose of your time as you wished?”
If the answer is,
“No, I had to stay in my wagon in case I was called forward in the queue”
Then the conclusion is that no break was taken and the driver was responsible for all/some of the subsequent problems.

If not working or driving then it can be break so assuming that …

The legal conclusion for that under EU regs would be that the driver acted correctly and if anyone disagrees then ask a legal expert

Reason = there is no legal requirement under EU regs for the driver on break to be able to freely dispose of their time

I do not THINK this is the correct answer - I KNOW it is

If a court determined that the driver was actually working then the outcome would be different but the court would have to prove what the driver was doing that constituted work - waiting is not work

Rog, if you read my posts properly then you will read that we had discounted the word REST because you jumped all over it as soon as it was written. We (the rest of us talking about this issue) are talking about what the POSTER meant which was putting the mode to (break).

As far as I was concerned it… (BREAK) is what he was referring to, I admit that I regret ever mentioning rest.

In your response above, I wouldn’t argue, BUT the original post was asking which mode to use and the fact that he didn’t say that he was not working, wasn’t mentioned.

  1. He said he was waiting in a queue (waiting).

A. He’s working

  1. He’s at a set of traffic lights (waiting).

A. He’s working

  1. He’s at roundabout (waiting to join)

A. He’s working

  1. He’s stuck in lane 3 on the M1 for hours in a queue (waiting)

A. He’s working

Where is the difference? It does matter if he’s on the M1 or waiting in a queue to get loaded. Does it?

POA has already been discussed and as far as I can see (correctly) so there’s no need to explain that, if anyone is interested, I, and a roadside enforcement examiner have just been talking to the people who write the policy on POA and I can put the whole thing on here.

There is another mode he can use whilst waiting or putting it in context of the REGULATIONS …(POA)

He can use it If he is told of the delay, and on this type of work he’s not going to be told of the delay so that one is out…(NO POA)

The other way under the same REGULATION…(POA) is that if he knows there will be a delay which he can expect to take a certain amount of time. (YES POA) No one needs to tell him

I, or no-one else is saying that to have a 15min break where we need to freely dispose of our time. I’ll say it again, because you don’t seem to read what is being said:

‘ADMITTEDLY I MADE THE MISTAKE OF MENTIONING ‘USING OUR TIME FREELY DURING REST’’. I didn’t mean rest, I meant BREAK. I will be extremely careful in future by making sure I use the correct word at the correct time and apologise to anyone who might have been confused by that explanation.

Rog, you appear to be trying to hang me and gain kudos for yourself I mentioned being able to ‘freely dispose of your time’ etc in response to the original poster’ question, and I’ll say it again because you don’t read what’s being said. ’ I made a mistake in assuming there were no people on here who would be splitting hairs and admit I was wrong when I mentioned ‘freely disposing of our time during a break’ This applies when on (POA).

Rog, I’m not trying to have a go, I’m not usually the type of person who gets into online disputes, but I do like to thrash the odd issue out.

You, I feel are quite similar, but being a newbie on here I get the feeling you have been around a long time and other members respect your opinions and advice, although a bit of back peddling has been been noted. :laughing:

I would ask though, are you a driver?

The reason I ask, which you might find either odd or offensive (which it’s not meant to be) is that your answers appear to me to come straight out the manual and very very black and white.

A colleague of mine is dyslexic and he’s very black and white too, his thought process is like tunnel vision and he struggles to see the bigger picture. There is clearly a divide here, if anyone needs any information regarding drivers hours, wtd then the people to speak to are:

enquiries@vosa.gsi.gov

These people advise the enforcement examiners who pull you in at the checkpoints. The forum is a great place full of advice and help. But remember it’s also full of HAPPY AMATURES :unamused:

52

fleettraineruk:
although a bit of back peddling has been been noted. :laughing:

You’ll soon learn with him. You might as well go and ■■■■ the wall with your forehead.

53

The reason why the answers are either black or white is because the law is just that - it is not shades of grey

Extenuating circumstances may be given by authorities in certain instances but that does not change the law

The differences in what is accepted in real life as to what the legal position is can often vary hence the sentence above

Nowadays I usually write the word legally so that the driver can see what the law is but its always up to the driver as to what they do with that info - not up to me to tell a driver what to do

Answers can only be on the info given so if a driver was waiting and not doing anything which could be deemed as work then they can use break

54

ROG:
The reason why the answers are either black or white is because the law is just that - it is not shades of grey

Extenuating circumstances may be given by authorities in certain instances but that does not change the law

The differences in what is accepted in real life as to what the legal position is can often vary hence the sentence above

Nowadays I usually write the word legally so that the driver can see what the law is but its always up to the driver as to what they do with that info - not up to me to tell a driver what to do

Answers can only be on the info given so if a driver was waiting and not doing anything which could be deemed as work then they can use break

That’s what my colleague would have said. next time I’m on the M1 for hours waiting to move I’ll stick it on break. Insightful

55

Lusk:
Your choices are either POA or break. Use whichever one suits you or your company for the best. Break is all well and good but there are times in the day when, if taken too early, it could screw you up and mean that you have to take another break in the day whereas if you had put it onto POA then you could get away with having just the one break.

I dont have any evidence to back this up but I would suspect that if you got pulled by VOSA in the event of having an accident and there were multiple period of break which were around the 12/28 or 43 mins, they could assume that you were not taking a proper break period.

+1

56

lol this forum cracks me up its like been in a virtual rdc waiting room with all the know it alls and mmtm stories …I cant understand why drivers are asking for tacho info ? when surely if your driving a truck for a living you would already know what to do■■? make no wonder the M25 is closed off every week by a truck been driven dangerously…

57

4aaaa4dd:
lol this forum cracks me up its like been in a virtual rdc waiting room with all the know it alls and mmtm stories …I cant understand why drivers are asking for tacho info ? when surely if your driving a truck for a living you would already know what to do■■? make no wonder the M25 is closed off every week by a truck been driven dangerously…

Becasue they dont understand. And I think that it is always better to ask.

For the past 15 years, I have been aware of tacho laws and on a few occasions I had been pulled in to various classes to try and learn about them and being totally honest, because I was not a driver and it was not totally necessary for me to learn them and because in my opinion they were fairly complex they went in one ear and straight out of the other. Now, because I do a bit of driving every now and again I have made it my business, to the best of my ability, not only to learn the rules but how to apply them in the real world as it were.

Knowing the rules and repeating them verbatim is one thing, learning how they all interact is quite another. I must also say that whilst topics like this can go on and on and on, they are without doubt a great learing tool as for example the OP will have learnt that he should not always rely on reading the tacho display to see how much time he has left - they dont teach you that sort of thing in the regs.

58

4aaaa4dd:

Lusk:
Your choices are either POA or break. Use whichever one suits you or your company for the best. Break is all well and good but there are times in the day when, if taken too early, it could screw you up and mean that you have to take another break in the day whereas if you had put it onto POA then you could get away with having just the one break.

I dont have any evidence to back this up but I would suspect that if you got pulled by VOSA in the event of having an accident and there were multiple period of break which were around the 12/28 or 43 mins, they could assume that you were not taking a proper break period.

+1

+2

59

Lusk:

4aaaa4dd:
lol this forum cracks me up its like been in a virtual rdc waiting room with all the know it alls and mmtm stories …I cant understand why drivers are asking for tacho info ? when surely if your driving a truck for a living you would already know what to do■■? make no wonder the M25 is closed off every week by a truck been driven dangerously…

Becasue they dont understand. And I think that it is always better to ask.

For the past 15 years, I have been aware of tacho laws and on a few occasions I had been pulled in to various classes to try and learn about them and being totally honest, because I was not a driver and it was not totally necessary for me to learn them and because in my opinion they were fairly complex they went in one ear and straight out of the other. Now, because I do a bit of driving every now and again I have made it my business, to the best of my ability, not only to learn the rules but how to apply them in the real world as it were.

Knowing the rules and repeating them verbatim is one thing, learning how they all interact is quite another. I must also say that whilst topics like this can go on and on and on, they are without doubt a great learing tool as for example the OP will have learnt that he should not always rely on reading the tacho display to see how much time he has left - they dont teach you that sort of thing in the regs.

So he should know the rules before he,s even given the keys to a truck ? Or is it just me that thinks truck drivers should know tacho law before they drive a truck …

60

4aaaa4dd:

Lusk:

4aaaa4dd:
lol this forum cracks me up its like been in a virtual rdc waiting room with all the know it alls and mmtm stories …I cant understand why drivers are asking for tacho info ? when surely if your driving a truck for a living you would already know what to do■■? make no wonder the M25 is closed off every week by a truck been driven dangerously…

Becasue they dont understand. And I think that it is always better to ask.

For the past 15 years, I have been aware of tacho laws and on a few occasions I had been pulled in to various classes to try and learn about them and being totally honest, because I was not a driver and it was not totally necessary for me to learn them and because in my opinion they were fairly complex they went in one ear and straight out of the other. Now, because I do a bit of driving every now and again I have made it my business, to the best of my ability, not only to learn the rules but how to apply them in the real world as it were.

Knowing the rules and repeating them verbatim is one thing, learning how they all interact is quite another. I must also say that whilst topics like this can go on and on and on, they are without doubt a great learing tool as for example the OP will have learnt that he should not always rely on reading the tacho display to see how much time he has left - they dont teach you that sort of thing in the regs.

So he should know the rules before he,s even given the keys to a truck ? Or is it just me that thinks truck drivers should know tacho law before they drive a truck …

Prior to being let loose in the real world as it were, he or she should be fully conversant with tachograph legislation. But there is a problem here… It is a bit like the newly qualified motor mechanic who has every known qualification in the engineering world. Give him a spanner on his first day at work and the chances are that this academic will not know how to use it!! It’s the same world over, unless you have got practical knowledge then in my opinion, you only have half the tools in your toolbox.