Heathrow Expansion

Quinny:
Made me laugh when the anouncement was made, because some joker from Whitehall said on tv that the whole of the UK would benefit from the expansion.

Really?

So how will wee Jock McTavish or Geordie Jim benefit from it?

As usual, [zb] the North and let the South benefit again in this two tier country.

Ken.

+1. The golden bags of money from Westminster falls slowly from the holed pockets as Madam blighty wends her way up the great north road. By the time she’s reached Newcastle, it’s shillings and pence :laughing:

Winseer:
Why do people want to pay £500,000 for a three bedroomed semi in the Heathrow area - if they were not totally OK with “having aircraft noise” all the time?
How can anyone argue “Property Blight” when there are no end of idiots to continue paying such prices for bog-standard properties in the area?

It’s not rocket science.Flight paths and frequencies have changed massively in just a recent period.Let alone going back to when the housing in question was built much of it before Heathrow even existed as a large airport.The result being that areas which weren’t subject to much if any problems now are to an increasing level.Putting in another runway at Heathrow will obviously increase the issues proportionately while doubling them at Gatwick.The fact is we’re talking about pushing such areas over the edge regards what is acceptable to keep other parts of the country taking less than their fair share of the growth in question.

airportwatch.org.uk/2014/10/ … hs-really/

theguardian.com/business/201 … ter-planes

Freight Dog:

Carryfast:
On that note people in the surrounding areas obviously based/base their decision to live/stay there on those ‘existing’ levels not more.

An interesting thing you mention there. Given air travel has risen constantly, at what snap shot point did they make that decision on existing levels I wonder. If someone still living in East Windsor today bought their house in 1949 when Heath Row was just another place with small aircraft, I could understand that. Winge away.

But if anyone after 1967 and the explosion of wide body mass transport made a house buying decision on “existing levels” , well that’s a bit naive :laughing:

We know it’s risen constantly the argument is at what point do we say ‘enough’ no more let other parts of the country to take their fair share.The south east at least in the form of Heathrow and Gatwick having reached that point.Bearing in mind that increased runway provision will by necessity require more flight paths affecting areas which weren’t affected previously. :bulb:

Having said that I can remember decades ago seeing a PIA 747 over Chessington flying low enough for a local copper to get the reg number and ask the airport what the zb he was doing there at that height.To which from memory the answer was no comment. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Carryfast:

Freight Dog:

Carryfast:
On that note people in the surrounding areas obviously based/base their decision to live/stay there on those ‘existing’ levels not more.

An interesting thing you mention there. Given air travel has risen constantly, at what snap shot point did they make that decision on existing levels I wonder. If someone still living in East Windsor today bought their house in 1949 when Heath Row was just another place with small aircraft, I could understand that. Winge away.

But if anyone after 1967 and the explosion of wide body mass transport made a house buying decision on “existing levels” , well that’s a bit naive :laughing:

We know it’s risen constantly the argument is at what point do we say ‘enough’ no more let other parts of the country to take their fair share.The south east at least in the form of Heathrow and Gatwick having reached that point.Bearing in mind that increased runway provision will by necessity require more flight paths affecting areas which weren’t affected previously. :bulb:

Having said that I can remember decades ago seeing a PIA 747 over Chessington flying low enough for a local copper to get the reg number and ask the airport what the zb he was doing there at that height.To which from memory the answer was no comment. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Fair enough, good seperate point. I agree with you. It’s at capacity in my humble opinion.
I think they’re blowing a fat pig with air.

But still I do think if you bought a house near LHR 1970s onwards you were asking for a spanking if you thought it was going to stay the same :laughing: . Did those wallies not put 2 and 2 together when they were jetting off to “ibitsa” on a package or later, to Rome for a tenner that only two decades before this was for the rich and wealthy and that not all the great unwashed are doing it, that’ll bring more traffic? Guess not :laughing:

Quinny:
Made me laugh when the anouncement was made, because some joker from Whitehall said on tv that the whole of the UK would benefit from the expansion.

Really?

So how will wee Jock McTavish or Geordie Jim benefit from it?

As usual, [zb] the North and let the South benefit again in this two tier country.

Ken.

Strange how the northern MP’s or their electorates aren’t calling for the airport expansion in question to be built there instead.Probably because they know the so called ‘economic benefits’ are outweighed by all the downsides on the quality of life. :unamused:IE I guess they mean more transport provision for northerners at the expense of the quality of life and environment of those living in the south east.

Freight Dog:
But still I do think if you bought a house near LHR 1970s onwards you were asking for a spanking if you thought it was going to stay the same :laughing: . Did those wallies not put 2 and 2 together when they were jetting off to “ibitsa” on a package or later, to Rome for a tenner that only two decades before this was for the rich and wealthy and that not all the great unwashed are doing it, that’ll bring more traffic? Guess not :laughing:

To be fair in many cases we’re talking about generations who’ve been established in the region going back to before planes were invented and this is still our home just as it was for our parents,grandparents,and great grand parents etc. :bulb: While no one would have believed that Heathrow would ever end up as a 3 runway monstrosity or Gatwick having as many runways as Heathrow had.While Birmingham,EMA,and Manchester etc remain untouched. :unamused:

The problem in our case not just being the question of possible resulting new flight paths and heights causing nuisance that didn’t exist previously.But more likely the knock on issues like pressure on the green belt for new housing to house the new workers and displaced residents among other urban development like hotels etc.In addition to new rail and road links. :open_mouth:

Carryfast:

Freight Dog:
But still I do think if you bought a house near LHR 1970s onwards you were asking for a spanking if you thought it was going to stay the same :laughing: . Did those wallies not put 2 and 2 together when they were jetting off to “ibitsa” on a package or later, to Rome for a tenner that only two decades before this was for the rich and wealthy and that not all the great unwashed are doing it, that’ll bring more traffic? Guess not :laughing:

To be fair in many cases we’re talking about generations who’ve been established in the region going back to before planes were invented and this is still our home. :bulb: While no one would have believed that Heathrow would ever end up as a 3 runway monstrosity or Gatwick having as many runways as Heathrow had.While Birmingham,EMA,and Manchester etc remain untouched. :unamused:

The problem in our case not just being the question of possible resulting new flight paths and heights causing nuisance that didn’t exist previously.But more likely the knock on issues like pressure on the green belt for new housing to house the new workers and displaced residents among other urban development like hotels etc.In addition to new rail and road links. :open_mouth:

Well it seems like you’ve lived in the area your life and I’m open to people’s own experiences and I can see merit in what your saying. To explain why, what you’ve said strikes a chord with me. I’ve long had a slight hobby horse (not that it affects me bizarrely) about wealthy people buying up endless tracts of land and property in places like Cornwall without any restrictions. The end result is the local children are forced out of the local property ladder of their homeland.

I think the point comes to the same. I think it’s high time the London centric view takes a massive figurative 30mm shell and expansion is forced to the regions.

Freight Dog:
Well it seems like you’ve lived in the area your life and I’m open to people’s own experiences and I can see merit in what your saying. To explain why, what you’ve said strikes a chord with me. I’ve long had a slight hobby horse (not that it affects me bizarrely) about wealthy people buying up endless tracts of land and property in places like Cornwall without any restrictions. The end result is the local children are forced out of the local property ladder of their homeland.

I think the point comes to the same. I think it’s high time the London centric view takes a massive figurative 30mm shell and expansion is forced to the regions.

Ironically the aerospace industry formed a large part of my father’s early employment at Napier and then Vickers and an uncle who worked at Hawkers before him and myself in the case of the emergency vehicle industry.So I’m certainly not ideologically opposed to air travel by those who choose it although I much prefer sea travel given the choice.But it needs to be done in a way that’s sustainable and that doesn’t disproportionately affect concentrated areas.As in many other cases the south east now being hit too much in that regard.

On that note I think Boris Johnson has missed the point catastrophically although the jury is still out regarding Zac Goldsmith’s agenda.IE the argument really needs to move away from Heathrow v Gatwick v Boris Island to one of South East v Regional airport capacity increase. :bulb: :wink:

Carryfast:

Freight Dog:
Well it seems like you’ve lived in the area your life and I’m open to people’s own experiences and I can see merit in what your saying. To explain why, what you’ve said strikes a chord with me. I’ve long had a slight hobby horse (not that it affects me bizarrely) about wealthy people buying up endless tracts of land and property in places like Cornwall without any restrictions. The end result is the local children are forced out of the local property ladder of their homeland.

I think the point comes to the same. I think it’s high time the London centric view takes a massive figurative 30mm shell and expansion is forced to the regions.

Ironically the aerospace industry formed a large part of my father’s early employment at Napier and then Vickers and an uncle who worked at Hawkers before him and myself in the case of the emergency vehicle industry.So I’m certainly not ideologically opposed to air travel by those who choose it although I much prefer sea travel given the choice.But it needs to be done in a way that’s sustainable and that doesn’t disproportionately affect concentrated areas.As in many other cases the south east now being hit too much in that regard.

On that note I think Boris Johnson has missed the point catastrophically although the jury is still out regarding Zac Goldsmith’s agenda.IE the argument really needs to move away from Heathrow v Gatwick v Boris Island to one of South East v Regional airport capacity increase. :bulb: :wink:

Talking regional transport.

Even when I worked for a company that serviced the regions it always annoyed me that the east side of the UK was unserviced. Yet by rail, it’s arguable the east has the best rail network in the whole of the UK with the ECML. A separate issue in this country on railways is if you wish to travel East-West or the other way around. It’s as if this were beyond reason asking for this, it’s like going back to the 1800s.

From a purely selfish perspective this East coast introspection as my family live in Lincs. Sure, there was Eastern airways. And not being rude to Eastern, well I am, but some better competition both price, route and frequency wise wouldn’t go amiss. But then I got into a discussion with a commercial Waller. There are stacks of people that wish to fly regionally in lincs and Yorkshire, but the problem is they are so spread out, so no one airport is serviced by a supply of people regularly willing to travel a particular route.

Cities concentrate this phenomenon and make route decision easier and more economic. The East, with plenty of passengers wanting to travel on the odd occasion to the likes of Glasgow and it’s smaller cities only provide a limited catchment to a local airport. That’s why Doncaster is a dead duck really. And fair play, my then company did dip toes in the east with Doncaster and Norwich. It closed both routes. Shame.

Going back to rail, In my opinion one of the worse things transport wise this country did was to listen to that idiot Beeching. In many areas, they are doing a terrible job of undoing what he started, only to falter and give up due financial constraints from starting with a 21st century fiscal model.

one wonders where this sits now?

Cameron would probably say “Hey - you lot never stopped be from quitting! I was hoping you’d ask me nicely to stay, but no.”

Apart from British Airways - who is it exactly who stands to benefit from this expansion once it’s up and running?

Contractors - limited employment whilst it’s being built.
Local population? - Unless they work in the aviation industry - there’s nothing in it for them.
Local Business? - There’s so little space, that even firms like Saints are going to struggle despite huge demand for their services. As I understand it, the new proposed runway just misses wiping old Saint’s current yard as well - but will probably trash those narrow roads that go to that yard.

They’ll still have to re-locate then, but won’t get compensation, because the expansion doesn’t actually build on their land.

Lose/Lose.

think saints will be ok where they are. firms the other side of a4 like hellmanns grundons and the lakeside ind estate will probably go plus the other estates on the north side of the a4going towards london

Winseer:
Apart from British Airways - who is it exactly who stands to benefit from this expansion once it’s up and running?

Contractors - limited employment whilst it’s being built.
Local population? - Unless they work in the aviation industry - there’s nothing in it for them.
Local Business? - There’s so little space, that even firms like Saints are going to struggle despite huge demand for their services. As I understand it, the new proposed runway just misses wiping old Saint’s current yard as well - but will probably trash those narrow roads that go to that yard.

They’ll still have to re-locate then, but won’t get compensation, because the expansion doesn’t actually build on their land.

Lose/Lose.

There’s no more reason to expect that regional airport capacity increase wouldn’t create jobs in the south east for air freight work for those who really want it.Ironically in my case as a Feltham based driver all the airfreight work which I did was associated with running between EMA and Feltham not Heathrow.Bearing in mind that it’s also generally a type of work which most drivers with any sense try to avoid.Especially if it involves just shunting between a local airport and local sites which just adds to the freight handling part of the job as opposed to driving anywhere.Maybe more reason why we don’t seem to be hearing any calls for regional airport development from drivers in other parts of the country near those regional airports.

Good idea to take wee ,before opening this link. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :wink:

walesoncraic.com/polish-work … ne-friday/

i can sit all day at heathrow and not do a thing on one of the jobs we cover they pay to have the truck sit outside all day even if they dont need it. also freight can be flown into heathrow but has to be taken to manchester for customs clearance before it is sent back to heathrow for delivery in reading for example.

Freight Dog:

Quinny:
Made me laugh when the anouncement was made, because some joker from Whitehall said on tv that the whole of the UK would benefit from the expansion.

Really?

So how will wee Jock McTavish or Geordie Jim benefit from it?

As usual, [zb] the North and let the South benefit again in this two tier country.

Ken.

+1. The golden bags of money from Westminster falls slowly from the holed pockets as Madam blighty wends her way up the great north road. By the time she’s reached Newcastle, it’s shillings and pence :laughing:

When it comes to Scotland though, it’ll be Trump Pence - especially around any golf courses…

malcob:
i can sit all day at heathrow and not do a thing on one of the jobs we cover they pay to have the truck sit outside all day even if they dont need it. also freight can be flown into heathrow but has to be taken to manchester for customs clearance before it is sent back to heathrow for delivery in reading for example.

:open_mouth:
Blimey you can bet that if they expand Heathrow they’ll upgrade the Customs facilities.In which case it’s a rare type of air freight job that doesn’t lumber the driver with helping to stuff pods and/or heaving the things around a warehouse between runs.In which case being based near Heathrow or Gatwick and running to/from EMA,or preferably Manchester,can only help in that regard. :bulb: :wink:

Lack of “Big Picture” or “Blue Skies” “Out of the Box” thinking here.
Put a barrier across the Severn estuary with an island in the middle of it.
Tidal electricity generation, no nearby residents, no traffic disruption, more jobs in the West Country and Wales, scope for new roads around there, room for future expansion, a high speed rail link will get passengers into London quicker than a car on the M4 from Heathrow; its only 140miles to the capital, Trains would also radiant out wards. With no neighbours to the west 24hrs operations possible. Cost? Look at how much land costs around Heathrow today! Chucking a few bricks in a river will be cheap in comparison. The fund for the public enquiries in the pipeline already could pay for everything! My consultancy fee for this "Green Alternative" is nowt. Youre welcome.

This has been most enjoyable, and the elected govt must as usual be ■■■■■■■ themselves.

They, the govts of the last 40 years have imported millions of people into this country without any prior (voiced) thoughts about how to cope with an increasingly transient population far in excess of what our islands can sensibly accommodate.

Oh yes, we can have 24 hour 7 day a week transport work entertainment etc but the thing is who, in our native population was ever asked if they wanted their country transforming into a bloody great airbus station.
Here we are arguing about who should have the money, north versus south, meanwhile those with fat wallets are as always finding their wallets ever fatter and those at the bottom of the ladder find themselves trodden further down day by day.

There is such a thing as quality of life, not necessarily linked to disposable income to buy new cars electronic toys and foreign holidays, this used to be a country of relative peace and quiet, there were industrial areas which were noisy but you didn’t have to move very far out (certainly an easy commute of 20 miles would suffice) to find a bit of space to live and breathe in, and most areas provided affordable homes that the local economy wage base would support the buying of by people who worked for a living.
Almost no one worked on a Sunday, 38 years ago i used to drive a long M1 night trunk, you could drive for 10 minutes without passing another vehicle coming the other way in the middle of the week, and some nights count on one hand how many cars (not a single lorry) you would see going the same way.

They have changed our country for ever, and the change is still going on, they’ve turned the south east especially round that there London into a living hell, overcrowding noise ridiculous cost of housing no room to breathe, the same has happened in all major cities and surrounds, and here we are clamouring for our share of more of the same, though some like CF rightly want to see a bit of NIMBYism and that is understandable because its got beyond the bad joke stage.

Is it maybe time to sit back and stop looking at ‘whats my house worth’ and ‘how can i claw a bit more’, and thought deeply about where we as a country are heading, and started voted accordingly before we find our country sinking under an unmanageable and still rising population which will bring even more overcrowding hell to even more areas year on year.

They don’t talk about grand schemes to make the North into a land of wealth for benevolent reasons, its because the south east expansion is running out of space and they want to turn whats left of ordinary peoples rural lives into the same hell that has befallen those who couldn’t afford to get out when the going was good, HS2 being a good example, we’ve run out of living space down the south but still want the money so you can live in what was once the peaceful North in a dormitory but still fill our LondonCentric coffers and fly via Heathrow to keep the money going round.