So… What do you do if you are running into the Colnbrook West incineration plant, or want to use the M25 whilst they presumably build some kind of earthwork like Bell Common?
Chaos for years to come, and I would argue this airport extension isn’t going to get built in our lifetimes…
Can someone explain again why doing this at Heathrow was preferable to building Frazer or Boris Island?
The Isle of Grain is sparsely populated, is mostly marsh and low-quality land, would have planes on final approach either out to sea or over a similar glidepath to that London City uses now, and of course it would create THOUSANDS of jobs in North Kent, in particular Medway…
Meanwhile, in Colnbrook district, the authorities are now going to have to pay top dollar for compulsory purchases of listed buildings, create thousands of jobs that will be a struggle to fill because of the already packed-out population density, and congest the area no end because of the proximity to existing major routes. Think: Block the M25 and get something akin to what’s happening regular at Dartford Crossing at night of late.
Grain would be disruptive to those living in the Wainscott Bypass area, might shift a few brudders off their allotments, but all at far lest cost overall surely?
But more than anything… I understand that Heathrow Expansion has hardly any support among it’s local population.
Compare that to Grain, where I’d argue the population within ten miles is split 50/50 on it.
Some (like me) want Grain to go ahead for the jobs it would create, the re-generation of the entire region, better transport links, etc etc.
Those against? - the same reason that the Heathrow population are ojecting. “Blighted Property”.
“More Aircraft Noise” isn’t a viable argument for those already living near the airport in the first place.
No one forced anyone to buy a property near an airport - and pay top dollar for it after all.
Isle of grain or even better,Manston. From what I understand,Manston is already big enough to take an A380. Compulsory purchase Manston,take the M2 out to 3 lanes and Bob’s your uncle. Then call it ‘London Manston’ to continue the trend of calling it a London airport if it’s within 100 miles
The issue is the general premise that all of the country’s infrastructure and development always has to be lumbered on the south east when the south east is already at saturation point.To the point where there was a muppet on the news saying what a good thing it is for his business for Heathrow to get lumbered.When his business is based in the south west. In which case how is that supposedly better for his business than large scale expansion of Bristol together with all the other regional airports.
As for the noise and traffic menace locally.The issue is that there’ll be much more of it than before and also in places so far less or totally unaffected.IE the extra capacity can’t all use the same existing flight paths without increasing the collision risk while much more aircraft density in the area also increases the odds of a serious air crash at some point.Which would obviously be far more expensive in terms of damage and casualties in the highly populated south east than spreading the load across other parts of the country.
So yes either Boris Island or develop the regional airports.The latter being the better alternative in that it spreads the load around the country instead of over loading the south east’s infrastructure and reduces blight on the population and the chance of air traffic accidents,by reducing air traffic density,and spreads the economic ‘benefits’ around the country.
On that note it seems strange as to why we’re hearing no protests from regional MP’s concerning the regions missing out on all this supposed wonderful economic growth that the south east doesn’t need or want.
Gatwick’s a dump now. In the last few years when we’ve landed at night there’s no staff about and the bogs are shut,among other things. If it wants to be taken seriously as a ‘hub’ airport it needs to put some serious money and effort in
Carryfast:
The issue is the general premise that all of the country’s infrastructure and development always has to be lumbered on the south east when the south east is already at saturation point.To the point where there was a muppet on the news saying what a good thing it is for his business for Heathrow to get lumbered.When his business is based in the south west. In which case how is that supposedly better for his business than large scale expansion of Bristol together with all the other regional airports.
As for the noise and traffic menace locally.The issue is that there’ll be much more of it than before and also in places so far less or totally unaffected.IE the extra capacity can’t all use the same existing flight paths without increasing the collision risk while much more aircraft density in the area also increases the odds of a serious air crash at some point.Which would obviously be far more expensive in terms of damage and casualties in the highly populated south east than spreading the load across other parts of the country.
So yes either Boris Island or develop the regional airports.The latter being the better alternative in that it spreads the load around the country instead of over loading the south east’s infrastructure and reduces blight on the population and the chance of air traffic accidents,by reducing air traffic density,and spreads the economic ‘benefits’ around the country.
On that note it seems strange as to why we’re hearing no protests from regional MP’s concerning the regions missing out on all this supposed wonderful economic growth that the south east doesn’t need or want.
It didn’t help that Local MP Mark Reckless was “got rid of” by Cameron at the last election.
I don’t trust that Tollhurts woman at all, what with going from 7000 votes behind to a 3000 majority - without Reckless losing his own 16,000 poll!
There’s been a new bridge built across the Medway linking Peter’s Village with the A228. Unfortunately, before anyone stuck at Rochester Bridge, Aylesford Village, or the M20 Londonbound past Maidstone gets excited…
They’ve blocked the road to Rochester so you can’t use it as a “Rat Run” to work in my case…
Nobby_Clarke:
Gatwick’s a dump now. In the last few years when we’ve landed at night there’s no staff about and the bogs are shut,among other things. If it wants to be taken seriously as a ‘hub’ airport it needs to put some serious money and effort in
We don’t want Gatwick to be viewed as a ‘hub’ just as Heathrow is already too big.It’s the idea of so called ‘hub’ airports all lumbered on the south east which is the problem in that they turn into unsustainable monsters that destroy the quality of life of those living tens of miles around them.Let alone when there are two of them as close together as Heathrow and Gatwick.
Carryfast:
On that note it seems strange as to why we’re hearing no protests from regional MP’s concerning the regions missing out on all this supposed wonderful economic growth that the south east doesn’t need or want.
It didn’t help that Local MP Mark Reckless was “got rid of” by Cameron at the last election.
I was thinking more of the hypocrisy of MP’s in the midlands and north and south west all supporting yet more airport capacity in the south east on the supposed grounds of the economy.When at the same time they moan about the country’s economic growth all being concentrated in the south east.IE bunch of hypocritical NIMBY’s.
So the logic in play here appears to be that it’s not OK that Winseer’s part of Kent has missed out on a jobs bonanza, but it would be perfectly fine to close or massively downsize Heathrow and put most/all of the tens of thousands who work there on the dole.
You can be at Paddington in about 15 minutes from Heathrow. Compare that with the travel time to Gatwick, or even worse, Manston. It was never going to go anywhere else.
It will never happen once Boris lays down in front of the bulldozers, as he promised to do if it got the go ahead! I have never flown but talking today to some (8 actually) of my neighbours who do use Heathrow and Gatwick regularly they much prefer Gatwick as it is less hassle and could do with being expanded. They ALL loathe Stanstead with a passion though!
I feel like Heathrow and Gatwick are temporary band aids, where as with Boris Island they could have built a 22nd Century Facility, not one that will only do for the next 30-50 years.
Olog Hai:
So the logic in play here appears to be that it’s not OK that Winseer’s part of Kent has missed out on a jobs bonanza, but it would be perfectly fine to close or massively downsize Heathrow and put most/all of the tens of thousands who work there on the dole.
You can be at Paddington in about 15 minutes from Heathrow. Compare that with the travel time to Gatwick, or even worse, Manston. It was never going to go anywhere else.
The issue is massively increasing an already outgrown airport not ‘downsizing’ it.As for the idea that Heathrow and Gatwick just serve London that’s the point Heathrow especially is being viewed as a national passenger and freight hub which serves the country not just London.With blight on the surrounding population to match.That population rightly not wanting to have its environment and quality of life destroyed just to provide a job creation scheme for airport workers.
windrush:
It will never happen once Boris lays down in front of the bulldozers, as he promised to do if it got the go ahead! I have never flown but talking today to some (8 actually) of my neighbours who do use Heathrow and Gatwick regularly they much prefer Gatwick as it is less hassle and could do with being expanded. They ALL loathe Stanstead with a passion though!
Pete.
Which,assuming you’re talking about people in the Midlands ? using the south east’s airports,is the point.We don’t want to destroy yet more of the quality of life of Sussex and Surrey to provide more airport capacity for the Midlands.When it would be much better for all concerned to expand Birmingham,East Midlands and Manchester.
We don’t want Gatwick to be viewed as a ‘hub’ just as Heathrow is already too big.It’s the idea of so called ‘hub’ airports all lumbered on the south east which is the problem in that they turn into unsustainable monsters that destroy the quality of life of those living tens of miles around them.Let alone when there are two of them as close together as Heathrow and Gatwick.
No we don’t. If Gatwick gets permission for another runway my friend’s house gets flattened. I feel sorry for the people around Heathrow because of some people’s obsession with everything being in or around London. I thought Gideon’s ‘northern powerhouse’ malarkey was supposed to stop that nonsense?
Carryfast:
it would be much better for all concerned to expand Birmingham,East Midlands and Manchester.
Let’s not forget Doncaster airport with the longest runway north of the Watford gap, that they used to send out the vulcans from.
Though I doubt the millions of people north & west of Heathrow really care about its expansion because its that far away and impractical for them to use for their annual jollies to Benidorm etc. The last and only time I’ve flown out of Gatwick it took 6hrs+ to get there on a national express bus
Olog Hai:
So the logic in play here appears to be that it’s not OK that Winseer’s part of Kent has missed out on a jobs bonanza, but it would be perfectly fine to close or massively downsize Heathrow and put most/all of the tens of thousands who work there on the dole.
You can be at Paddington in about 15 minutes from Heathrow. Compare that with the travel time to Gatwick, or even worse, Manston. It was never going to go anywhere else.
I didn’t say anything about any Grain airport replacing Heathrow. Why not just leave Heathrow as it is, and just open up one in the Thames Estuary, bearing in mind we’ve got one to the South, Northwest and Northeast already - but not the Southeast now that Manston has been mothballed.
The population is increasing all the time. It doesn’t make sense to “take anything away” - but the process of “Adding” needs to be done in a blue-sky thinking kind of way.
It takes 29 minutes to get to Gatwick on the Gatwick Express out of Victora, and 27 minutes from Liverpool Street to Stanstead.
Luton - I’ve never done as a trip from London - but I reckon it’s also less than half an hour one way.
A Grain hub could then relieve Heathrow of those flights that would have aircraft crossing the center of London as well. Perhaps “Long haul” from a freed-up capacity Heathrow, and “Euro” to “Middle Distance” flights out of the new Grain hub that could be referred to as “The Eastern Hub” for more reasons than one.
No jobs would be lost at Heathrow, with only the airlines themselves moving as appropriate. It’s the lower-paid airport staff that live local to heathrow, with the higher paid people often commuting in. There’s no evidence to suggest that a Pilot living in say, Tonbridge Wells would be upset over having to commute to Grain rather than Heathrow from such a town of residence…
Airline managers (of whom I know one working at Gatwick who lives in Medway) would also find it easier I would imagine.
Stewardesses? - I’m not sure how much they get these days - but again, it’s the worker’s choice as to “what wage is worth what commute” kinda thing.
Nobby_Clarke:
No we don’t. If Gatwick gets permission for another runway my friend’s house gets flattened. I feel sorry for the people around Heathrow because of some people’s obsession with everything being in or around London. I thought Gideon’s ‘northern powerhouse’ malarkey was supposed to stop that nonsense?
^This.
As I said it seems strange as to why Northern MP’s seem so keen to continue to concentrate all the economic activety like airport expansion in the south east while obviously leaving potential regional airport capacity under used and under developed.While supposedly standing for the opposite.
Make air travel compete on a level playing field by adding a tax (fuel duty and vat) to aviation fuel and air travel. Less people will fly hence no need for any more runways, less pollution, less global warming. win win.
Nobby_Clarke:
Isle of grain or even better,Manston. From what I understand,Manston is already big enough to take an A380. Compulsory purchase Manston,take the M2 out to 3 lanes and Bob’s your uncle. Then call it ‘London Manston’ to continue the trend of calling it a London airport if it’s within 100 miles
HS1 passes within a couple of miles of it too, and would only need a short spur to connect it to the HS network.
Winseer:
It takes 29 minutes to get to Gatwick on the Gatwick Express out of Victora, and 27 minutes from Liverpool Street to Stanstead.
Luton - I’ve never done as a trip from London - but I reckon it’s also less than half an hour one way.
The Stansted express web site quotes 47 minutes to Liverpool Street from Stansted. Gatwick Express is supposed to be 30 minutes.
I’ve never known any of them to take that time, always been longer. Found sometimes getting the train from Gatwick and changing
at Clapham Junction is a quicker (not always) and cheaper option.
Luton Airport Parkway to Kentish Town is 40 minutes direct. Lost count of the number of times I’ve done that one in the last 18 months.
Nobby_Clarke:
Isle of grain or even better,Manston. From what I understand,Manston is already big enough to take an A380. Compulsory purchase Manston,take the M2 out to 3 lanes and Bob’s your uncle. Then call it ‘London Manston’ to continue the trend of calling it a London airport if it’s within 100 miles
HS1 passes within a couple of miles of it too, and would only need a short spur to connect it to the HS network.
Now there is some sensible talk
What gets me, is that this is supposed to be such a gain for the economy, but have they factored the cost to the economy that will come from the chaos on the western quadrant of the M25 for the best part of a decade whilst construction takes place, and then the roll on cost from the increased congestion there after.
I heard on the radio today that 70% of the flights to or from this country, are taken by only 15% of the population, so the rest of us have to suffer for the few, Again
I was also under the impression that HS2 was supposed to have a spur to Heathrow, and then another to Birmingham Airport, if this is the case, then why the to expand, cut out more of the domestic flights, or at least make domestic flights pay the rates of fuel duty, and VAT as other forms of transport, that would almost kill domestic flights, freeing up no end of capacity
I have never flown but talking today to some (8 actually) of my neighbours who do use Heathrow and Gatwick regularly they much prefer Gatwick as it is less hassle and could do with being expanded. They ALL loathe Stanstead with a passion though!
