i have recently read an article concerning the human rights act, and the handing keys in malarky.
well in a nutshell the article states that the human rights act dosn’t cover rdc’s, as they are not under state control. if they were then we wouldn’t have to hand our keys in because it would contravene protocol 1 of the human rights act.
but what about if a government department advised the rdc to take the keys from drivers?
would that contravene the human rights act?
you see, it’s the HSE that started it. they advise it on there website.
i think the article was in truck and driver, but i can’t be sure.
Steve-o:
If idiots wouldn’t drive off bays on red then we wouldn’t have to. We only have ourselfs to blame.
do you know if this has actually happened?
i’ve heard the same comment as you’ve just written, but i think it’s more of health and safety saying “We must be seen to be doing something”. don’t know by who though.
most rdc’s lock your trailer wheels or get you to pull out from under the trailer. so you wouldn’t be able to pull off the bay anyway.
but this isn’t what my origional topic was asking.
Steve-o:
If idiots wouldn’t drive off bays on red then we wouldn’t have to. We only have ourselfs to blame.
Agree totally with you then theres the idiots who break the toilets for drivers then moan theres no toilets or cause trouble in the canteen then wonder why drivers arent allowed in.
You have to give your keys in then try this BE NICE to the bird or bloke behind that glass screen they have the power to control your time there.
Steve-o:
If idiots wouldn’t drive off bays on red then we wouldn’t have to. We only have ourselfs to blame.
do you know if this has actually happened?
YES!
I was at Tesco Welham Green and just opening back doors to reverse onto a bay when the left ■■■■■■ on my offside pulled off a bay. I heard such a bang and looked - bay doors open and dock leveller bouncing with the weight it dropped off at. Fortunately no one was in the back and no injuries. Red light showing…goods in staff had handed his keys back thinking all clear and driver obviously didn’t check for green light.
seen a lhd in safeways (now morrisons) bellshill pull off the dock when the loader was just on the loading ramp with the electric barrow, the loader sufferd broken bones from hitting the concrete
Steve-o:
If idiots wouldn’t drive off bays on red then we wouldn’t have to. We only have ourselfs to blame.
do you know if this has actually happened?
YES!
I was at Tesco Welham Green and just opening back doors to reverse onto a bay when the left ■■■■■■ on my offside pulled off a bay. I heard such a bang and looked - bay doors open and dock leveller bouncing with the weight it dropped off at. Fortunately no one was in the back and no injuries. Red light showing…goods in staff had handed his keys back thinking all clear and driver obviously didn’t check for green light
Could also have been the fact it was a left ■■■■■■, he may have looked at the wrong light.
I’ve nearly done it a couple of times at our depot in Germany. Five o’clock in the morning and not long out of bed when I pull round to get my trailer, hook up to it then look at the light in my driver’s side mirror. Ah, green, good to go. No, wait, it’s the light on the other side which is for my bay as they are all left hand drive bays.
i must admit i have always made myself aware of the possibility of this happening.
how hard is it to get out of your cab, walk to the back of the trailer, and make sure everything is ok before you move? even if you have a green light.
the reason i do this, is because i was on a bay, laid down for a while, i woke up, and had a green light. i thought about moving, but then realised i had only been asleep for about 2 minutes. they hadn’t started tipping it. (i thought i’d been there for hours).so i always take a look.
but anyway, this dosn’t explain the human rights act question.
limeyphil:
but anyway, this dosn’t explain the human rights act question.
I’m not sure where the relevance of RDCs/State Control comes in. Of course RDCs are under “state control” in relation to them just simply being in the U.K.
I think the “article” you read may not have been very well written, or understood.
But the whole “yooman rites” point is moot in any case regarding “peaceful enjoyment of possessions” by reference to " . . . . except in the public interest . . . . "
Taking keys and/or banning a driver from the cab would very easily be described as “public interest” on the grounds of H&S(B)
I doubt very much that we’ll ever find any legislation or even “guidance” to use successfully other than “No. I don’t want to” (Although, I did have a significant “win” at Morrisons Wakefield a few years ago)
limeyphil:
but anyway, this dosn’t explain the human rights act question.
I’m not sure where the relevance of RDCs/State Control comes in. Of course RDCs are under “state control” in relation to them just simply being in the U.K.
I think the “article” you read may not have been very well written, or understood.
But the whole “yooman rites” point is moot in any case regarding “peaceful enjoyment of possessions” by reference to " . . . . except in the public interest . . . . "
Taking keys and/or banning a driver from the cab would very easily be described as “public interest” on the grounds of H&S(B)
I doubt very much that we’ll ever find any legislation or even “guidance” to use successfully other than “No. I don’t want to” (Although, I did have a significant “win” at Morrisons Wakefield a few years ago)
the state control thing is this.
the HSE. “a goverment department”, advise the RDC’s “private companies” to take the keys.
therefore it is indirect state control.
now do you get it?
the HSE. “a goverment department”, advise the RDC’s “private companies” to take the keys.
therefore it is indirect state control.
now do you get it?
I’m not sure you do Phil, or the article you’ve read.
But it still makes little or no difference regarding “Stae Control” be that direct, indirect, infered or just simply suggested or desired by anyone capable of reading English, due to the “public interest” caveat.
they’ve officially brought this poxy policy in at our place, but none of the goods in boys enforce it with the regular container boys & girls, when I saw the H&S notice go up I asked if anyone had consulted a driver, you can guess the answer. I suggested getting the container boys to pull the red line and everyone is happy, but I’m just a driver and know f’all
Yeah - I “get away with” a fair bit because I’m (now) on boxes.
I don’t mind so much with quick tips - (if any exist on boxes) but tend to loose it sometimes at RDCs when I’m looking at 2/3/4 hours.
I once used . . . .
“When/If you provide suitable and comparable facilities* to those in my cab then I’ll happily sit in your corner like a naught little boy” It often works.
*suitable/comparable facilities would include but not be limited to - ability to make myself a fresh drink - not that sludge from vending machines, watch TV channel of my choice at a volume to my comfort - not SkyNews or Jeremy Vile either bursting my eardrums or lower than the sound of my own heartbeat, comfortable and reclining seat - not the cheap nasty polyprop school chair with a leg missing or the chair loose from the legs, and a level of privacy - I might be watching an adult movie and have the tendency to pleasure myself while doing so.
the HSE. “a goverment department”, advise the RDC’s “private companies” to take the keys.
therefore it is indirect state control.
now do you get it?
I don’t think handing keys in is a state control thing.
All the HSE will require is that you do a risk assesment and than take suitable action to minimise any potential risks.
It’s the H&S department in the company that come out with things like removing keys from drivers, but this isn’t fail safe as was shown by the driver who pulled off the bay as posted by Rick B.
The system should be that you cannot get a truck off a bay while the dock leveler is in place.
I’m sure a fail safe system that removes the human factor could be used, but it’s cheaper and easier for them to get you to hand your keys in and they can claim that they have a Health and safety policy and can cover thier arse if anything goes wrong.
tbh i dont see the problem with it, yes its a pain but be nice to the goods in people and they might just get you out quicker, ive never done much rdc work at goods in so ive never really experienced it but hey {zb} happens
gogzy:
tbh i dont see the problem with it, yes its a pain but be nice to the goods in people and they might just get you out quicker, ive never done much rdc work at goods in so ive never really experienced it but hey {zb} happens
Personally I didn’t mind handing keys in, but now not being allowed to wait in your cab and spend hours waiting in some dank crappy waiting room that would really [zb] off. I hated RDC work at the time and I’m exstatic that I don’t have to go near them now.
They’re quick to state H&S grounds for their staff benefit and public interest etc but what about the other side of the coin.
You get up at 03:00ish ready to begin a 4 hour drive to a dc for a 07:30 straight on a bay and you have to sit in a room full of stale air with other drivers for H&S reasons, not allowed in cab.
If any of you tip these regularly you will know the rest…drivers start dropping to sleep or nodding, yawning, fidgeting and generally not getting much rest, which is really what should be happening.
Where is the H&S for when you eventually get your keys back and it’s safe to leave? Pull up for a kip when you’ve been sat at an rdc for 2 or 3 hours will soon have the gaffer on your back.
Are you all saying that H&S is a bad thing, or is it that you don’t like sitting in the so called canteen using the so called loo.
I have being to a few RDC’s and have given my keys in without any problems you must remember there protecting there staff from you the driver cos as we all know we do make mistakes.
It is there responsibility to keep all the staff and visitors safe in the work place, and by giving your keys in to the RDC’S while you been unloaded to protect there workforce is in fact there human right to feel safe at work.
look at it this way you the worker at the RDC and you have to unload trucks day in day out, one day you are unloading a truck and in the back at the time and the driver is not paying attention and there pull away from the bay, who’s fault is it the driver for not handing the keys in, the company for not having a safe operating systems in place.
Or the could it even be the company not protecting the human rights of its workforce or the visiting drivers from possible accidents at work, buy not implementing good health and safety practices.
You as a driver as a duty of care to the worker in the delivery place in making sure that you try to make it safe for them to work safely, and if that means handing you keys in then you can feel safe in the fact that you have done your part.
