not so long ago I posted about us drivers where I deliver are now having to wait outside our cabs,this is after sitting in our cabs for over two years where I and other drivers think that is the best place to be while the forkies unload,when I asked why, it’s apparently a H&S ruling,recently I did manage to ask why and it turns out it’s nothing to do with us,the story was a driver at some other site was being unloaded[sheet steel] and he went out the fork drivers view,the load tipped and killed the driver,i replied that surely if the forkies at our place on our regular delivery know we are in the cab they know we are safe so why are we not allowed to sit in the cabs when we have done so previously for over two years,his reply was that it was a grey area and that personally he couldn’t give a fxxk if we sit in the cabs,again though it seems it’s some health and safety muppet throwing around what little power he has.
Generally speaking with H&S it does not matter a ■■■■ if certain practices have gone for years without any problems, and therefore proven statistically to be safe.
Then it takes just one single occasion out of those thousands, for things to go ■■■■ up, ie the exception to the rule, then suddenlly all the numerous trouble free safe occasions are totally disregarded by the H&S nazis, and said practices are suddenlly deemed unsafe and banned by them.
Defies logic. 
Whenever I hear H & S I translate it to some driver has foorked it up for the rest of us.
Let’s face it in unfamiliar surroundings the drivers safest place is in their cab ideally with the truck keys handed to goods in.
But some idiots have thought they are clever by handing in fake keys leading to drive off incidents. Luckily this forum has got rid of all these twunts and no one in their right mind would ever confess to handing in fake keys on here.
Due to having bigger bollox than most of the sad acts I see sitting in crappy waiting rooms I’m currently banned from Sainsbury’s Stoke and all Amazon sites.
Tesco I allow as the waiting room and canteen is OK also a few Asdas/Coops and Stobrats where I can go on a wander. But that’s about it.
robroy:
Generally speaking with H&S it does not matter a [zb] if certain practices have gone for years without any problems, and therefore proven statistically to be safe.
Then it takes just one single occasion out of those thousands, for things to go ■■■■ up, ie the exception to the rule, then suddenlly all the numerous trouble free safe occasions are totally disregarded by the H&S nazis, and said practices are suddenlly deemed unsafe and banned by them.
Defies logic.
so true
robroy:
Generally speaking with H&S it does not matter a [zb] if certain practices have gone for years without any problems, and therefore proven statistically to be safe.
Then it takes just one single occasion out of those thousands, for things to go ■■■■ up, ie the exception to the rule, then suddenlly all the numerous trouble free safe occasions are totally disregarded by the H&S nazis, and said practices are suddenlly deemed unsafe and banned by them.
Defies logic.
Thats the problem. Its little to do with a logical look at the risks involved sometimes. Its someone wanting to exert some authority and using H & S as an excuse to do so. Maybe too often its someone who has been given the responsibility of H & S, but don`t have sufficient training to make competent risk assessments, covering their ■■■ by banning everything.
Dipper_Dave:
Whenever I hear H & S I translate it to some driver has foorked it up for the rest of us.
Let’s face it in unfamiliar surroundings the drivers safest place is in their cab ideally with the truck keys handed to goods in.But some idiots have thought they are clever by handing in fake keys leading to drive off incidents. Luckily this forum has got rid of all these twunts and no one in their right mind would ever confess to handing in fake keys on here.
Due to having bigger bollox than most of the sad acts I see sitting in crappy waiting rooms I’m currently banned from Sainsbury’s Stoke and all Amazon sites.
Tesco I allow as the waiting room and canteen is OK also a few Asdas/Coops and Stobrats where I can go on a wander. But that’s about it.
we even suggested giving our keys to the forklift drivers or putting them on a post outside like I did on palletways Lichfield,both met with a no,the trouble with H&S dicks is they will not listen to reasonable argument,they are god as far as they are concerned.
Had a new one the other day at a DHL site. Can sit in cab but keys must be in the door so forkie can see them…
Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Franglais:
Thats the problem. Its little to do with a logical look at the risks involved sometimes. Its someone wanting to exert some authority and using H & S as an excuse to do so. Maybe too often its someone who has been given the responsibility of H & S, but don`t have sufficient training to make competent risk assessments, covering their ■■■ by banning everything.
Disagree, it’s someone trying to justify their continued employment once any real unsafe practices we’re stopped years ago. They need to keep finding something to keep their 30-40k jobs when they effectively do absolutely nothing productive, but plenty disruptive.
El Deano:
Had a new one the other day at a DHL site. Can sit in cab but keys must be in the door so forkie can see them…Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Thing is though mate, these H&S guys are quickly running out of ideas that they need to think up, to enable them to justify their 40k a year jobs.
So consequently these ideas are getting more and more ridiculous as they get more and more scarce. 
I had to sit in my cab in the passenger seat…wearing my hard hat one day! 
I got the feeling that the guys in the yard were having a giraffe at my expense and maybe videoing me on their phones, playing a game of ‘‘What can we make these bloody stupid drivers do next’’ 
robroy:
I had to sit in my cab in the passenger seat…wearing my hard hat one day!
I got the feeling that the guys in the yard were having a giraffe at my expense and maybe videoing me on their phones, playing a game of ‘‘What can we make these bloody stupid drivers do next’’ [emoji38] [emoji38]
I think I’ve been there Rob, I was told to sit in my cab holding my helmet as well.
Some confusion arose and I’m now banned but my heart was in the right place, unlike my helmet.
El Deano:
Had a new one the other day at a DHL site. Can sit in cab but keys must be in the door so forkie can see them…
Sorry about the silly question, but how does the FLT driver seeing/watching the truck keys affect H&S? Also in OP, truck driver was killed because he went out of FLT’s sight so the load tipped? I don’t get it…can someone elaborate about the whole keys/getting seen thing (I haven’t started driving yet)
Vid:
Disagree, it’s someone trying to justify their continued employment once any real unsafe practices we’re stopped years ago. They need to keep finding something to keep their 30-40k jobs when they effectively do absolutely nothing productive, but plenty disruptive.
The sad truth, unfortunately.
I am well aware that H&S is a sore subject with many on here.
I have recently completed a lead risk assessor course at our place. Just because it’s a bit extra money and I wanted to understand more about why we have so many H&S rules more so with big companies.
The idea that our place is trying to follow as with all our sites are or will, is having people who actually do the job do the risk assessments, and to minimise the amount of risk assessments we have as a site. Many sites have far too many risk assessments and often for stupid things.
I have heard of places that have risk assessments for boiling the kettle to make a brew, or using a stapler in an office etc.
Things that clearly do not require a risk assessment should not have one, if someone is stupid enough to not know the danger of boiling a kettle or using a stapler then that is tough luck.
However the model for risk assessments at least at our place is likelihood x severity = risk. So we have a score for how likely an accident is going to happen for a given risk, we then have a score of how severe the injury would be from nothing other than a bump up to the worst which is a fatality. The two scores and then x by each other to give the risk score. The score then determines how important that risk is to the company and the employees and visitors and contractors and the general public dependant on the risk assessment and who is affected by the task.
So yes a lot of it is annoying but nigh on all of these rules have been caused because of idiots that have done stupid things on the workplaces. And yes that involves having spare keys for the truck etc etc.
It was actually a fairly interesting course and two of the main factors to a company is the cost so financial, and also the reputation also cost of bad accidents.
Now before anyone jumps on the band wagon of working for faceless corporate companies consider this.
If large companies with turnovers of millions of not billions or revenue are so strict on H&S because of the financial and reputations costs that is why.
Also consider the small company you work for that doesn’t care about H&S, it only takes one death or life changing injury to happen and its cost the business hundreds of thousands of pounds. That can mean the difference between the company trading and not and everyone being out of a job. A very big risk for any company of any size. Of course places can play pot luck and hope it never happens but the fact is it does happen and not always by inexperienced drivers often drivers that know better but think they know better.
It’s just an opinion and an insight into why it is like it is, but mostly for this at least the only people to blame are drivers and warehouse staff.
I’m sure there will be one or two who will pick this to pieces and say the usual about H&S but it has to be like that now because of what has gone on on the past.
Also as regards the well it doesn’t happen here and never has, you use historical data to backup your likelihood score, one of those data sets can be you competitors, so when an accident happens at one company other companies will soon follow suit to prevent the chance of it happening at your place.
It’s not all as simple and straight forward as people often like to think.
simcor:
So yes a lot of it is annoying but nigh on all of these rules have been caused because of idiots that have done stupid things on the workplaces. And yes that involves having spare keys for the truck etc etc.
I think there’s plenty of us already fully aware of this Simon, Dipper_Dave has already said for example…
Dipper_Dave:
But some idiots have thought they are clever by handing in fake keys leading to drive off incidents. Luckily this forum has got rid of all these twunts and no one in their right mind would ever confess to handing in fake keys on here.
I think there is definitely a place for H&S and that place is putting a stop to dangerous practices that are usually set about as either a short cut, laziness or penny pinching, however I don’t think H&S should be a self appointed guardian against natural selection and as already touched upon self justification, and let’s not forget that the majority of H&S warnings and procedures are not there to protect the valued driver or warehouse operative they are there to protect the company from lawsuits in this claim! claim! claim! society we have now become.
Generally people haven’t become increasingly stupid or clumsy they’ve become increasingly greedy, which will no doubt lead to people becoming ever increasingly stupid because they no longer get to think and figure dangers out for themselves.
Reef:
simcor:
So yes a lot of it is annoying but nigh on all of these rules have been caused because of idiots that have done stupid things on the workplaces. And yes that involves having spare keys for the truck etc etc.I think there’s plenty of us already fully aware of this Simon, Dipper_Dave has already said for example…
Dipper_Dave:
But some idiots have thought they are clever by handing in fake keys leading to drive off incidents. Luckily this forum has got rid of all these twunts and no one in their right mind would ever confess to handing in fake keys on here.I think there is definitely a place for H&S and that place is putting a stop to dangerous practices that are usually set about as either a short cut, laziness or penny pinching, however I don’t think H&S should be a self appointed guardian against natural selection and as already touched upon self justification, and let’s not forget that the majority of H&S warnings and procedures are not there to protect the valued driver or warehouse operative they are there to protect the company from lawsuits in this claim! claim! claim! society we have now become.
Generally people haven’t become increasingly stupid or clumsy they’ve become increasingly greedy, which will no doubt lead to people becoming ever increasingly stupid because they no longer get to think and figure dangers out for themselves.
I agree with what your saying as well, but companies have to protect themselves financially and their reputation, things like this can be the difference between winning a contract or not not just on price alone as that company also has the reputation of the business it is working for to uphold.
I’m just staying how I see it having sat on a course that has given me more insight into why we have so much H&S over here now.
And when you look at the cost and damage that can done to a business in one single accident its no wonder we are where we are these days.
And add to that the amount of idiots that can gain a truck licence these days it will only get worse.
I appreciate you have done your course,.and that you are keen to ‘‘Spread the word to the unbelievers’’ .
However I don’t think that anybody in their right minds is against Health and Safety in it’s true form and concept.
What people do mind is the over zealous way in which it is implemented, by those in charge of it, which in a lot of cases is a combination of being over the top, defying common sense, and downright derisory,.and in many cases a paradox of it’s self, where the rules are far unsafer than what it is perceived to prevent.
robroy:
I appreciate you have done your course,.and that you are keen to ‘‘Spread the word to the unbelievers’’ .
However I don’t think that anybody in their right minds is against Health and Safety in it’s true form and concept.
What people do mind is the over zealous way in which it is implemented, by those in charge of it, which in a lot of cases is a combination of being over the top, defying common sense, and downright derisory,.and in many cases a paradox of it’s self, where the rules are far unsafer than what it is perceived to prevent.
I kind of expected that response from you Rob to be honest.
Maybe it’s the way I read it or maybe it’s the way you meant it I really have no idea off hand.
But.
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I am far from keen to spread the word to unbelievers.
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It’s just looking at it from a different perspective. True an employers perspective but a different one to mine or yours for example.
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I did the course several weeks ago and had no desire to tell anyone about it or mention it until I saw that post and trued to explain why I think it has got to the stage it is.
Maybe it looks to some like I am trying to teach others to ■■■■ eggs, but it isn’t meant that way at all. It’s just o have a slightly different perspective of why it is like it is now based on how a business Co ducts risk assessments and why they are needed.
And yes I agree it’s about cost and reputation mostly, but it is also for the safety or everyone.
If I have misunderstood your post then fair enough.
I just thought it was worth posting the most interesting bit from it, in fact the most interesting thing I learnt is this:
Why peanuts have a may contain nuts warning on the packet.
I’m sure someone maybe more then I would think will know the answer on here. But I certainly didn’t.
robroy:
I appreciate you have done your course,.and that you are keen to ‘‘Spread the word to the unbelievers’’ .
However I don’t think that anybody in their right minds is against Health and Safety in it’s true form and concept.
What people do mind is the over zealous way in which it is implemented, by those in charge of it, which in a lot of cases is a combination of being over the top, defying common sense, and downright derisory,.and in many cases a paradox of it’s self, where the rules are far unsafer than what it is perceived to prevent.
Oh and I would certainly agree often it is implemented very poorly. That is part of the whole idea of our risk assessments being updated and regularly by people doing the job to weed out the pointless ones that are not required and make the others more relevant and safe.
simcor:
Why peanuts have a may contain nuts warning on the packet.I’m sure someone maybe more then I would think will know the answer on here. But I certainly didn’t.
Isn’t it something to do with being more than one type of nut and some people are allergic to the other types but most factories process both types of nut in their machinery?
robroy:
El Deano:
Had a new one the other day at a DHL site. Can sit in cab but keys must be in the door so forkie can see them…Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Old, but in the news not long ago DHL
Reef:
simcor:
Why peanuts have a may contain nuts warning on the packet.I’m sure someone maybe more then I would think will know the answer on here. But I certainly didn’t.
Isn’t it something to do with being more than one type of nut and some people are allergic to the other types but most factories process both types of nut in their machinery?
Sort of, a peanut contrary to its name is not a nut it’s a legume its grown under the ground not like tree grown nuts Almonds walls it etc. Hence why the warning, its is produced in a factory that produces tree grown nuts. Yet the ironic thing is most people who suffer nut allergies are more likely to be allergic to peanuts. Talk about an oxygen moron.