Guys is this against the law?

Although I would feel the temptation to do what the OP is considering in the circumstances, in reality I know I would not.

I used to do regular ad-hoc agency shifts 15 - 20 years ago when I was a full time dad, it used to be standard practice that once I was booked for a shift I was guaranteed 8 hours at whatever the agreed rate was, even written in the contract.
When agencies (presumably due to pressure from their clients) stopped making this guarantee I stopped working for agencies. Before that, when I did work for them I always rocked up on time, did the job conscientiously and to the best of my abilities then buggered off.

As far as I’m concerned agencies and their clients deserve what they get from drivers they ■■■■ about and if he actually does it , fair play.

Rjan:

ETS:
To make things fair companies should be allowed to claim losses from agencies for no-show drivers. Had 1 no show yesterday and another walked out before the start of his run; it’s a surprisingly common occurrence for agency drivers to not show up without warning. You would think now that work is scarce (if agencies are to be believed) drivers would be more on the ball than ever but nope

It’s probably because guys have felt forced to book in a shift they didn’t really want, and have either suddenly got something better, or just couldn’t be bothered getting up for it when it actually came time because the reward and enthusiasm just isn’t there.

No, it’s because they’re lazy ■■■■■■■■ who cba to show up. Guaranteed 2 no-shows every Saturday afternoon/evening. ‘‘got something better’’ yah I can see what now that pubs/clubs are open once more. The ‘‘reward’’ is about 50% higher than the average rate for the area and work is easy as can be. Like I said, lazy ■■■■■■■■ who then cause the company to overbook from the agency leading to shift cancellations and further problems and I’ve been on both sides (have had shifts cancelled on arrival and now as a perm with company seeing agency drivers not show up)

ETS:
To make things fair companies should be allowed to claim losses from agencies for no-show drivers. Had 1 no show yesterday and another walked out before the start of his run; it’s a surprisingly common occurrence for agency drivers to not show up without warning. You would think now that work is scarce (if agencies are to be believed) drivers would be more on the ball than ever but nope

What makes you think companies are not allowed to claim for these losses?

NB - There is a gulf of difference between “not allowed to” and “unwilling to”…

Roymondo:

ETS:
To make things fair companies should be allowed to claim losses from agencies for no-show drivers. Had 1 no show yesterday and another walked out before the start of his run; it’s a surprisingly common occurrence for agency drivers to not show up without warning. You would think now that work is scarce (if agencies are to be believed) drivers would be more on the ball than ever but nope

What makes you think companies are not allowed to claim for these losses?

NB - There is a gulf of difference between “not allowed to” and “unwilling to”…

I don’t know if they’re ‘‘allowed’’ (have it in the contract with agency) to but if they were I’d bet my balls agecies would then try to re-claim the money from the driver who failed to show up (yeah good luck with that unless they have some outstanding pay/holiday where the agency can deduct the money from) so new drivers (as in - newly registered) would have a harder time getting that first time assignment etc. etc. Do you know something we don’t?

So you say that companies “should be allowed to claim” but now you say you don’t know whether they are allowed to or not. Which was my point. Something must have made you think they were not allowed to do so?

Roymondo:
So you say that companies “should be allowed to claim” but now you say you don’t know whether they are allowed to or not. Which was my point. Something must have made you think they were not allowed to do so?

Yes, the way they scream and throw phones around when they find out a driver isn’t coming makes me think they’re getting the thick end of it. If you’re implying I’m one of those ‘no show’ fellas, I’ve never failed to show up for a (properly) booked shift; recent example of booking me in for 12 noon when I’d finished 6 a.m. same day. Back to my point why I’m more inclined to believe they’re not claiming costs - if they did the no-shows would be very rare and/or only with good reason (though not showing up and when they call you at the supposed start time ‘‘oh I felt sick, kind of - so I decided to stay home’’ is not really a valid reason) as agencies would no doubt be passing the costs onto the drivers. Other than that I have no inside knowledge of what a contract between an agency and a company looks like - heck, I’ve only ever seen 1 or 2 contracts between agency and driver - nowhere did it mention anything about drivers being liable for ‘costs incurred to company’ except for direct damage caused by negligence.

Options 1-3 sound a bit plain.

What you need, is a Mini Digger ! :laughing:

Seriously though, consider the job situation in your area for drivers before you go burning bridges.

Wheel Nut:
Company dream not going so well.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=158737&p=2552895#p2552895

Damnittt!..

How can you possibly remember a thread from that long ago?

I struggle to remember why I’ve driven out of the yard some days.

yourhavingalarf:
Damnittt!..

How can you possibly remember a thread from that long ago?

I struggle to remember why I’ve driven out of the yard some days.

There is a Search function on this board…

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

Roymondo:
There is a Search function on this board…

Yes…

I agree there is a search function. What I’m alluding to is Wheel Nut spotting the link through memory alone.

TruckDriverBen:
Im currently working for a agency i get paid a week in advance i was booked into a shift this morning as soon i arrived i was told it’s been cancelled and they have spoken to the agency i looked at my phone and they texted me literally 10min prior to shift starting 1hour commute + 30miles (1 way trip )down the drain agency said they would pay me 2hours if the company agrees as apparently the truck was down so its the company fault. I usually work 12hours on average at said place and try my best:

Anyways agency will pay me 2hours ( i want 5hours min )if company agrees so this is were it get interesting: ( what i want to do )

  1. Wait 2 weeks so agency have paid me said funds into my bank, then accept a day work at the company get a taxi into work drop the trailer off in a random layby 2hours away from the depo with goods inside ( trailer does not have gps so wont tell them were its parked ) bring unit back near my home address and park it outside the police station and hand the keys in and quit = all in all cost the company 1k for playing me about is there anything legally wrong here? then join a new agency or get a perm job somewhere

2)fuel my car with £50 of company diesel

  1. do nothing

Im going pick option 1 yay or nay guys.

ps: i cant deal with chasing the agency/company up to small claim court

You forgot option (4)
Let go, no holiday back pay, no furlough money, no P45… If you do manage to get another job, it will be on W1/M1 emergency rate so you’ll end up overpaying tax for the rest of the year.

The best way to deal with agencies (as I’ve learned) is to milk it for as much as you can, WHILST you can - and be prepared to move on at a moments notice, and no handouts.
Getting a good deal from an agency is like trying to get redundancy pay from a firm that is letting people go, but not you because it would cost more than letting go someone who’s worked there less than 2 years.

If you are poor - you have no power. If you have some money, you have even less than no power. Tough concept to grasp? - People with some money have to pay their own legal bills, which are ruinous… Turn genuine poverty to your advantage with a contingency lifestyle that’ll keep you going during the rough times ahead for millions of us to come…

ETS:

Rjan:
It’s probably because guys have felt forced to book in a shift they didn’t really want, and have either suddenly got something better, or just couldn’t be bothered getting up for it when it actually came time because the reward and enthusiasm just isn’t there.

No, it’s because they’re lazy [zb] who cba to show up. Guaranteed 2 no-shows every Saturday afternoon/evening. ‘‘got something better’’ yah I can see what now that pubs/clubs are open once more. The ‘‘reward’’ is about 50% higher than the average rate for the area and work is easy as can be. Like I said, lazy [zb] who then cause the company to overbook from the agency leading to shift cancellations and further problems and I’ve been on both sides (have had shifts cancelled on arrival and now as a perm with company seeing agency drivers not show up)

What’s the difference with what I said anyway?

There will be reliable guys out there. They’re just not at beck and call of an agency for a Saturday shift at standard pay. Utmost reliability has always been something that employers have to pay for.

It doesn’t matter how “easy” the work is. It’s still work, not leisure.

And if you do send reliable guys home without pay (and they may be new guys initially, so you don’t realise they are reliable), you’re immediately going to create unreliable guys who either leave for something better, or who decide that one good turn deserves another.

Rjan:

ETS:

Rjan:
It’s probably because guys have felt forced to book in a shift they didn’t really want, and have either suddenly got something better, or just couldn’t be bothered getting up for it when it actually came time because the reward and enthusiasm just isn’t there.

No, it’s because they’re lazy [zb] who cba to show up. Guaranteed 2 no-shows every Saturday afternoon/evening. ‘‘got something better’’ yah I can see what now that pubs/clubs are open once more. The ‘‘reward’’ is about 50% higher than the average rate for the area and work is easy as can be. Like I said, lazy [zb] who then cause the company to overbook from the agency leading to shift cancellations and further problems and I’ve been on both sides (have had shifts cancelled on arrival and now as a perm with company seeing agency drivers not show up)

What’s the difference with what I said anyway?

There will be reliable guys out there. They’re just not at beck and call of an agency for a Saturday shift at standard pay. Utmost reliability has always been something that employers have to pay for.

It doesn’t matter how “easy” the work is. It’s still work, not leisure.

And if you do send reliable guys home without pay (and they may be new guys initially, so you don’t realise they are reliable), you’re immediately going to create unreliable guys who either leave for something better, or who decide that one good turn deserves another.

I think there is a big comparison between the average “pro driver” and the average “pro…”

What other line of work does one see where those that are truly awful at it - still have a shot at being paid for it, but those that are truly best at it - are not even on the market to be paid for it to begin with? :stuck_out_tongue:

Winseer:
What other line of work does one see where those that are truly awful at it - still have a shot at being paid for it, but those that are truly best at it - are not even on the market to be paid for it to begin with? :stuck_out_tongue:

I know many examples frankly, including a university educator who turned to fencing (the kind with wood and concrete, not with swords).

More to the point, employers create their own reliability. Workers with steady employment tend to have steady lives, to be men of habit, to have wives who are women of habit, to have friends with similarly steady lives and steady attitudes to life, to have regular bills to meet and little savings, to live nearer to their workplace, to have reliable cars, to feel moral obligation to their employer, to fear the sack, to think and plan further into the future than just the day or the week, and so on. These are qualities and circumstances that tend to be forged over decades.

By contrast, most haulage employers (and indeed agencies) are recruiting from a very different pool. Certainly, most agencies are recruiting from a pool of habitual and hardened temporary workers.

Of course there are the incompetents or criminals who might be punching above their weight in terms of the occupation (or the condition of unemployment) they’d otherwise be in.

But most such temporary workers will have the individual qualities necessary to be reliable permanent workers. They just don’t have the permanent work. They’re not men of habit because their various employers are not employers of habit. Their lives are not organised around reliable service to a particular employer because they have no particular employer. They’re used to working when they want and not when they don’t. They’ve probably fired off a great many employers themselves, and are practised lion-tamers.

And if an agency worker decides not to get up on a Saturday morning for whatever reason, his latest two-bit employer is no loss to him. There are 25 more agencies willing to hire him the day after, and 25 more employers addicted to temporary workers who are willing to take him, because he’s still no worse a punt than the next man on agency, and if they wanted to be choosy they’d have to put the pay rate up.

Haulage employers who claim they can’t get the staff, are really just reaping what they have collectively sown over many years already. There isn’t a shortage of potentially reliable workers, just a shortage of industry conditions which actually condition them and keep them disciplined and motivated as reliable workers.

I guessing you will do nothing . But if you think agencies don’t talk to each other and other drivers who work for other agencies don’t talk to there handlers you are deluded . The company I work for also has an agency business I can tell you now the boss would phone every agency and haulage firm he knows to make sure they know how petty you are

chester1:
I guessing you will do nothing . But if you think agencies don’t talk to each other and other drivers who work for other agencies don’t talk to there handlers you are deluded . The company I work for also has an agency business I can tell you now the boss would phone every agency and haulage firm he knows to make sure they know how petty you are

The question is what interest the average agency or haulier has in doing that. Many would rub their hands with glee at the idea of inflicting misfortune on their competitors, because the best response to being victimised, is to make sure your competitors are also victimised.

And by time you’ve been on the blower to slate your own drivers for the 100th time this month, not only will the listeners eventually tune out unless it’s really newsworthy, but eventually someone (either your competitors who want to hobble you, or someone with different loyalties) is going to dob you in for running this blacklist broadcast network. And because he’s spread the word so wide, he’ll not have the faintest idea who stabbed him in the back.

Guys part 2 question ( didn’t want to start a new thread )

Guys I work at a blue chip company green light (dvsa
) and all that waffle … so my day usually is really long and sometimes I get to a customer site really tiny and I’m waiting there 1hr30min just for the loading bay to be free. Then it takes like 2hour to tip me

So my question is if I were to take my card out and wait around then back it in and get tipped I’m driving less than 2mins and moving like 20feet then when all is done put my card in and manual entry that as a 3hour break will everything be kosher or will my company find out.

Yes I want split 3, 9hour break yes I’m greedy

TruckDriverBen:
Guys part 2 question ( didn’t want to start a new thread )

Guys I work at a blue chip company green light (dvsa
) and all that waffle … so my day usually is really long and sometimes I get to a customer site really tiny and I’m waiting there 1hr30min just for the loading bay to be free. Then it takes like 2hour to tip me

So my question is if I were to take my card out and wait around then back it in and get tipped I’m driving less than 2mins and moving like 20feet then when all is done put my card in and manual entry that as a 3hour break will everything be kosher or will my company find out.

Yes I want split 3, 9hour break yes I’m greedy

Don’t do this. It’s really stupid. And that’s being polite. Others probably won’t be. I think you should go and book some DCPC refreshers as it’s clear you’re in need of them if you believe that kind of behaviour is acceptable.

In reply to your August post, why on earth did you take a shift with a start time 10 minutes later when you had an 1 hour commute, presumably not including your preparation time prior to setting off? That sounds really dumb to me unless you were desperate for the work.

Anecdote:
I got caught out just a couple of months ago working s/e via an agency on a good screw, but unlike me I’d not got round to making it official with a signed contract of my terms as it all started off rather unexpectedly with some last minute cover to get them out of the crap and was cash-in-hand. Everything was going alright until one night I went to the assignment as usual and found that they’d allegedly cancelled me with the agency earlier in the day. I’d received no communication from the agency about this and after calling them to inform them, they denied any knowledge of receiving any communication from their client about the cancellation. There was some ‘to’ and ‘fro’ between all parties and foreseeing what was likely coming down the tubes to me, I made a point of laying it on thick with the agency about how I’d been offered ‘other’ work of 12hrs+ from another agency, but as I was already booked with them I turned it down, so would like compensating for the lost work, but kept it all very pleasant, no pressure.

The truth of the matter is I knew I didn’t have a leg to stand on as there was no written contract in place (I have terms about cancellations after x time). It transpired that their client had emailed them on the morning of the night shift I was due to work, but the agency claim they hadn’t seen it. They offered 2 hours compensation. I pushed for 8 hours as it was entirely their fault. There was a stalemate as neither party wanted to capitulate but by tactfully reminding them how I’d bailed them out of the crap a few weeks prior and also them knowing I was a good worker with an army of other work options in my phone text message log, they upped their offer to 4 hours, with the predictable whining that this is completely out of their pocket which they can’t bill the client for. Obviously this is still not 8 hours but the reality is that their client is a 5 minute drive away from home and the whole episode from leaving home to arriving back there was no more than 30 minutes, plus it’s good, clean and easy work.

I accepted their offer, because on balance they admitted fault (rare for an agency), they offered compensation at their own cost and sometimes [zb] just happens.

Business is business. Pick your fights carefully. Don’t burn your bridges. :bulb:

TruckDriverBen:
Guys part 2 question ( didn’t want to start a new thread )

Guys I work at a blue chip company green light (dvsa
) and all that waffle … so my day usually is really long and sometimes I get to a customer site really tiny and I’m waiting there 1hr30min just for the loading bay to be free. Then it takes like 2hour to tip me

So my question is if I were to take my card out and wait around then back it in and get tipped I’m driving less than 2mins and moving like 20feet then when all is done put my card in and manual entry that as a 3hour break will everything be kosher or will my company find out.

Yes I want split 3, 9hour break yes I’m greedy

:laughing: :laughing: You’re being serious right?. :neutral_face:

So you’re asking …‘‘Is doing something illegal …ie doing something but recording something entirely different on your tacho record, legal.and/or acceptable’’ ?
So what do YOU think? :unamused:

Ffs. :unamused:

youtu.be/rGK0zu9wznQ

Rob, my point was is it safe for me to do this. Iv spoken to many driver they said dvsa don’t give a rat ■■■ if its under ‘x’ amount of distance or ‘x’ amount of time if its practically no milage

Especially if its off road