Bewick:
Just to put matters into perspective Deano there was a TN member (Trev H RIP) who was an apprentice fitter at BRS and used to mix with the apprentices from Guy Motors at Tech College and also he visited the Factory on many occasions as BRS were big operators of Guy Big J and he was adamant there was never such a beast built and neither did he recall any of his pals speak of them in conversation. I believe there has been one or two Hybrid transplants of the 8LXB into Guy chassis but they don’t count anyway. Seddon Motors did build a small number of 32/4’s with the 8LXB engine but for some strange reason ( The DB 6:600 wasn’t up to it) derated the engine to 200BHP which was always somewhat puzzling to operators at the time and there is photographic evidence on TN of the Seddon installation and I have personally driven one in the mid 70’s ( and I wasn’t “smoking” any gear and convincing myself it actually was an 8LXB) Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
DEANB:
Bewick:
Bewick:
Has anyone ever built one,sold one when new,repaired one,DRIVEN one,or at least seen one or possibly got a photo (side view) showing the 8 potter sticking out the rear of the cab .
Now then Deano this was my post that kicked the 8LXB Big J hunt off in Jan 2010 and to date no one has produced a photo of any kind ! and apparently Smith of Maddiston ran 40 of the beasts While there is plenty of documentary evidence showing that the 8LXB was an option that isn’t the same as seeing one “in the flesh” and as I’ve said previously Guy Motors weren’t exactly high up in the pecking within the Leyland Group and, of course, Atkinson, ERF and Foden could never get enough Gardner engines and they more or less took almost all of Gardners production over many years ! I re-ignite the case once more ! Cheers Bewick.
Well Dennis, you cant argue with this… ! 240 gardner for sale in this advert from 23rd April 1976 in
Commercial motor magazine !
I would class that advert as a bit iffy and I’m saying no more as I just bet if you turned up to look at said motor it would have been " sorry mate we’ve just sold it this morning" I kid you not !! Cheers Dennis.
Dennis, i reckon your on the hook here mate ! I am not being fobbed off that easy ! The
advert appeared in several commercial motor magazines so must have been genuine. The fact that there were only 29 built means its highly unlikely that anyone has a photo It is the sort of pic that you stumble across in someones gallery on flickr when you are actually looking for something else
Now then Deano this thread has been the source of very meaningful discussion for over 7 years and still is continuing unabated ! But there is a vast body of opinion from across the industry, Drivers, Operators and Fitters and none have ever seen one of the Beasts nor has any of the ex Guy Motors employees come up with “the goods”. Then there is a very small number of “True Believers” who are equally adamant that the Big J was produced in various quantities of anything from a handful to the 40 that Smith of Maddiston were reputed to have operated and I know for a fact that this latter claim was utter Bollox, 205 and 220 ■■■■■■■ engines were the standard engine in the SOM Big J’s and were supplied in vast quantity to Smiths and certainly when the 8LXB was introduced in the early 70’s SOM was part of United Transport and they would have declined to pay the premium for the big Gardner and that was supposing that Guy’s could even get a “sniff” of acquiring this great engine which was strictly rationed to Gardners three main customers Atkinson/ERF and Foden. Onwards and upwards the saga continues Cheers Dennis
Just a suggestion Dean, and you may not have the time, but you will find this thread most interesting if you read through it from page 1, the arguments put forward from both sides will have you “riveted” but equally they may make your “teeth itch” Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Now then Deano this thread has been the source of very meaningful discussion for over 7 years and still is continuing unabated ! But there is a vast body of opinion from across the industry, Drivers, Operators and Fitters and none have ever seen one of the Beasts nor has any of the ex Guy Motors employees come up with “the goods”. Then there is a very small number of “True Believers” who are equally adamant that the Big J was produced in various quantities of anything from a handful to the 40 that Smith of Maddiston were reputed to have operated and I know for a fact that this latter claim was utter Bollox, 205 and 220 ■■■■■■■ engines were the standard engine in the SOM Big J’s and were supplied in vast quantity to Smiths and certainly when the 8LXB was introduced in the early 70’s SOM was part of United Transport and they would have declined to pay the premium for the big Gardner and that was supposing that Guy’s could even get a “sniff” of acquiring this great engine which was strictly rationed to Gardners three main customers Atkinson/ERF and Foden. Onwards and upwards the saga continues Cheers Dennis
To be fair on the balance of probabilities they did exist.While it’s only the definition of ‘exist’ IE how many and how many remained in medium/long term use that’s the question.In that firstly we know that the 6 cylinder Gardner was commonly put in the things so why would Gardner have had any reason to starve them of 8 cylinder options if ordered on the basis that they’d only be cutting off their nose to spite their face by refusing to meet an order regardless of who ordered it.
Which realistically leaves the question why would anyone have gone to all the trouble of going for an expensive 8 cylinder motor,in a Big J,when other cheaper 6 cylinder options like ■■■■■■■■ with as much if not more output potential,existed.Which explains why any sales which there were of the thing would have been few and far enough apart to be off the historic radar other than the records which VALKYRIE managed to dig up.IE if the 6 cylinder Gardner wasn’t enough it was going to take some very special committed customers to go for the 8 LXB option.Rather than just put the simple cheap option of a ■■■■■■■ in it ?.
On that note if I’ve read it right you were a user of both the Big J and the 8 LXB but,for some reason,never seem to have put the two together,which would have also therefore logically probably translated generally across the industry,in the buying habits of the day.
Bewick:
Now then Deano this thread has been the source of very meaningful discussion for over 7 years and still is continuing unabated ! But there is a vast body of opinion from across the industry, Drivers, Operators and Fitters and none have ever seen one of the Beasts nor has any of the ex Guy Motors employees come up with “the goods”. Then there is a very small number of “True Believers” who are equally adamant that the Big J was produced in various quantities of anything from a handful to the 40 that Smith of Maddiston were reputed to have operated and I know for a fact that this latter claim was utter Bollox, 205 and 220 ■■■■■■■ engines were the standard engine in the SOM Big J’s and were supplied in vast quantity to Smiths and certainly when the 8LXB was introduced in the early 70’s SOM was part of United Transport and they would have declined to pay the premium for the big Gardner and that was supposing that Guy’s could even get a “sniff” of acquiring this great engine which was strictly rationed to Gardners three main customers Atkinson/ERF and Foden. Onwards and upwards the saga continues Cheers Dennis
No,no,no Dennis ! So what you are saying is that you are the big gringo judge and everything you
say is right and everyhing everyone else says is wrong Your on the ropes here chap get
the white flag up
Bewick:
Just a suggestion Dean, and you may not have the time, but you will find this thread most interesting if you read through it from page 1, the arguments put forward from both sides will have you “riveted” but equally they may make your “teeth itch” Cheers Dennis.
DEANB:
No,no,no Dennis ! So what you are saying is that you are the big gringo judge and everything you
say is right and everyhing everyone else says is wrong Your on the ropes here chap get
the white flag up
You could always ask him the inconvenient question he seems to have rated/used the Big J to a degree and we know he liked the 8 LXB motor.So did he actually ever try to order a Big J with an 8 LXB in it new or look for one used.If not why not and if so did Guy/Leyland Group tell him he couldn’t have one because they didn’t make them. ?.
DEANB:
Can someone please tell me the name and address of the Guy dealer that would have supplied Smith of
Maddiston there trucks ?
Dean,
That would be a good start to your investigation,however,as Dennis has suggested,if you were to trawl through this thread,you would see that I collected a brand new 240 Percy powered Big J from Smith’s Newton le Willows depot,having been driven there on the day I started for Smith’s by the Manchester depot Manager,Harold Gilmore,the Guy had come down on a trailer on one of the night trunks from Maddiston.
There are plenty of others on the site,mechanics and others that also endorse the fact that they either drove or have worked on this illusive motor,but Dennis is having none of it.
It is to be regretted that I know not the dealer who supplied Smith’s with their Guy’s
I’m not the only one that is involved in this difference of opinion, all I ever asked initially was has anyone seen one or is there a side view shot of one. Then the debate fired up ! I did not dispute at the time there never was one produced ! But as time went on the only proof that was offered was “hearsay” which only added to the mystery. With regard to whoever the supplying dealer may have been I tend to think that like BRS SOM would have dealt directly with Guy Motors at Fallings Park and they may have been appointed dealers in their own right which was often the case with some large operators. But the search for the “Holy Graille” continues and until irrefutable photographic evidence appears the thread will no doubt continue albeit with “new blood” i.e. “Deano” ! Dennis.
Now not wanting to ■■■■ on Deans chips, but that advert looks like the same one that Dave the Renegade (RIP) posted, its a Kidderminster number, Chaddesley Commercials aka Robert Reynolds, the truck was sold to M A Evans a green cab and I think previously owned by a fuel company! I think we are back to square one!
Plenty photos of that MA Evans one mentioned above , as mentioned before was apparently sold second hand from Kidderminster.
Reg No GDS 427 N , a registration which at that time was Peeblesshire.
Check from page 80 onwards , it includes info from the very knowledgeable late Saviem RIP , who states he saw or came across one , states dealers , but as yet the conclusive photos are still conspicuous by their absence .
There is also more info posted by Valkyrie , from the BCVM .
Bewick:
IMHO the Mods should close this thread down,it is now making my teeth itch,still it’s better than having them punched out if 5th Wheel David got hold of me I suppose,eh! Cheers Dennis
I suppose this post is still relevant then ! Cheers Dennis.
Kev73:
I know Guy fitted big ■■■■■■■ and RR engines in the BigJ,but is there any actual
evidence that an 8LXB powered BigJ was ever made? os is it just a myth?
How on earth can it be a myth when I for one drove one when at SoM,and others on here have worked on them,its just Dennis taking the pyth!!!..still a great topic and its generated 79 pages!!!
David
That Big J you collected at Newton-Le-Willows for SOM’s Cheetham Hill depot had an AEC 505 engine,you don’t think Maddiston would have let you lot loose with an 8LXB?,you should have looked at the back of the cab David,and not just the 240 badge on the grille ! Dennis.
And just to inject a bit of frivolity into the thread !
Seriously! No mention of the GL Baker Big J with the 8LXB again! Is this selective memory loss?
I gave you chapter and verse on that lorry over a year ago! It was a factory supplied 8LXB engined Big J. The cab was mounted slightly higher, the wheelbase longer and the exhaust the right size, as the pictures showed, the elusive shot of the engine from the rear was missing, but that’s probably because of the millions of lorry photos, only a tiny percentage would be taken from the rear of the cab.
newmercman:
Seriously! No mention of the GL Baker Big J with the 8LXB again! Is this selective memory loss?
I gave you chapter and verse on that lorry over a year ago! It was a factory supplied 8LXB engined Big J. The cab was mounted slightly higher, the wheelbase longer and the exhaust the right size, as the pictures showed, the elusive shot of the engine from the rear was missing, but that’s probably because of the millions of lorry photos, only a tiny percentage would be taken from the rear of the cab.
Going off “Piste” for a moment I wonder if James and Alexander Smith were persuaded to buy any of the very first Big J’s that were launched with the ■■■■■■■ V6 engine ? Now daft as it sounds this question could set another “hare” running and we may even hear from our overseas member in Brittany ! Monsieur D. Fergie. Cheers Dennis.
Cheers Dennis.
While there is plenty of documentary evidence showing that the 8LXB was an option that isn’t the same as seeing one “in the flesh” and as I’ve said previously Guy Motors weren’t exactly high up in the pecking within the Leyland Group and, of course, Atkinson, ERF and Foden could never get enough Gardner engines and they more or less took almost all of Gardners production over many years ! I re-ignite the case once more !
It is the sort of pic that you stumble across in someones gallery on flickr when you are actually looking for something else 
