Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?
This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
DEANB:
Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
0
Sorry Dean,the grille had to be extended for the “big Percy” and others in order to accommodate the additional length,nice try though,the picture shows a flat fronted grille.
David
DEANB:
Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
0
From memory the dozen or so we ran had 246 bhp stamped on the plate fitted on the side of the fuel pump along with the testers initials
DEANB:
Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
0
It has an ‘L’ plate, so it was registered in the period Leyland announced the 8LXB as a Big J option (in this thread, I provided a link to the CM News article). However, I thought the 8LXB version had the “square-nose” extended grille, while that lorry has the original grille. I would suggest that the caption is wrong about the power (It should say 246bhp gross, if the engine was an 8LXB), and they have shown a non-8LXB tractor, forgetting about the cosmetic changes. The reason for the latter expedient, I would speculate, is that there were no 8LXB-engined Big J’s to photograph!
An alternative explanation is that the lorry had a Rolls 265 engine.
250 ■■■■■■■ perhaps?
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On another note, what was the study into 44tons that was going on in the late 60s/early 70s?
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5thwheel:
DEANB:
Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
Sorry Dean,the grille had to be extended for the “big Percy” and others in order to accommodate the additional length,nice try though,the picture shows a flat fronted grille.
David, so it has to look like this one does it ,to accomodate the 8LXB engine ■■
David
When I get a day or two to spare I will visit the Anson Engine Museum and trawl through all the 8LXB engine record sheets and find out where they went to. Every Gardner engine built since day 1, of whatever type, has its own record sheet with full details on it. And Dennis, just a point, by virtue of the fact that Guy built psvs for many years with Gardner engines it was classed as a major customer by Gardners, and the two companies had a good business relationship.
DEANB:
5thwheel:
DEANB:
Can anyone confirm was the bhp for the gardner 8LXB engine 240 or a tad more ?This is a Leyland photo which quotes the truck having a 246 bhp engine fitted ? Could this be the 8LXB ■■
(Click on the photo for a clearer image)
1
Sorry Dean,the grille had to be extended for the “big Percy” and others in order to accommodate the additional length,nice try though,the picture shows a flat fronted grille.
David, so it has to look like this one does it ,to accomodate the 8LXB engine ■■
0
David
Yup,that’s it Dean,front grille extension of about 4".
David
gingerfold:
When I get a day or two to spare I will visit the Anson Engine Museum and trawl through all the 8LXB engine record sheets and find out where they went to. Every Gardner engine built since day 1, of whatever type, has its own record sheet with full details on it. And Dennis, just a point, by virtue of the fact that Guy built psvs for many years with Gardner engines it was classed as a major customer by Gardners, and the two companies had a good business relationship.
Hi “GF”, I understand what you are saying which refers to Guy Motors prior to their demise in 1961 and you are no doubt quite correct. The point I was making was once Leyland took Jaguar over, including Guy Motors, matters took a different turn as there was no love lost between Leyland and Gardner which was a well known fact and of course Gardners main customers were Atkinson, ERF and Foden who were all competitors of The Leyland Group companies. Leyland had a major shareholding in Fodens and supplied them with many 680 Power Plus engines. You will probably recall that it was a struggle to buy a Gardner engine chassis in the late 60’s and well into the 70’s particularly the 8LXB engine but there was no way by this time that Guy figured very highly as a Gardner user once they were within the Leyland fold. I have said previously that I don’t doubt there may have been a few Guys built with the 8LXB engine but no where near the numbers that have been claimed particularly when this engine was “rationed” to their three big customers. All I ever asked for was a side view shot of an 8LXB Big J but for some very strange reason none have materialised and even some TN members who were fairly close to Guy’s had never seen or heard of one of these Beasts. As an aside I can say that once the 180LXB was reduced to powering units only up to 30:5 tons gvw I understand that the 180LXB became more readily available and Guy’s were able to obtain this engine more easily especially when the Big J was in it’s “death throes” in the mid 70’s plus Guy chassis became available “ex stock” in late '76/'77. I know I’m rambling,sorry ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
gingerfold:
When I get a day or two to spare I will visit the Anson Engine Museum and trawl through all the 8LXB engine record sheets and find out where they went to. Every Gardner engine built since day 1, of whatever type, has its own record sheet with full details on it. And Dennis, just a point, by virtue of the fact that Guy built psvs for many years with Gardner engines it was classed as a major customer by Gardners, and the two companies had a good business relationship.Hi “GF”, I understand what you are saying which refers to Guy Motors prior to their demise in 1961 and you are no doubt quite correct. The point I was making was once Leyland took Jaguar over, including Guy Motors, matters took a different turn as there was no love lost between Leyland and Gardner which was a well known fact and of course Gardners main customers were Atkinson, ERF and Foden who were all competitors of The Leyland Group companies. Leyland had a major shareholding in Fodens and supplied them with many 680 Power Plus engines. You will probably recall that it was a struggle to buy a Gardner engine chassis in the late 60’s and well into the 70’s particularly the 8LXB engine but there was no way by this time that Guy figured very highly as a Gardner user once they were within the Leyland fold. I have said previously that I don’t doubt there may have been a few Guys built with the 8LXB engine but no where near the numbers that have been claimed particularly when this engine was “rationed” to their three big customers. All I ever asked for was a side view shot of an 8LXB Big J but for some very strange reason none have materialised and even some TN members who were fairly close to Guy’s had never seen or heard of one of these Beasts. As an aside I can say that once the 180LXB was reduced to powering units only up to 30:5 tons gvw I understand that the 180LXB became more readily available and Guy’s were able to obtain this engine more easily especially when the Big J was in it’s “death throes” in the mid 70’s plus Guy chassis became available “ex stock” in late '76/'77. I know I’m rambling,sorry ! Cheers Dennis.
Rambling Dennis, You must be feeling your age you silly old git, Have a few drams, Or open another bottle of Bubbley, & Chill out my good friend, Ive had a good day driving a fork lift, & Im now having a Large Glenmoray Sherry cask single malt just to calm me down , Not that I nead calming down, Im om top form at the moment, But I might be deed in the morning Eh, I ■■■■■■■ hope not I have a lot of Malts in my stash that I hope to savour & replace before I go Hic Hic, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Bewick:
gingerfold:
When I get a day or two to spare I will visit the Anson Engine Museum and trawl through all the 8LXB engine record sheets and find out where they went to. Every Gardner engine built since day 1, of whatever type, has its own record sheet with full details on it. And Dennis, just a point, by virtue of the fact that Guy built psvs for many years with Gardner engines it was classed as a major customer by Gardners, and the two companies had a good business relationship.Hi “GF”, I understand what you are saying which refers to Guy Motors prior to their demise in 1961 and you are no doubt quite correct. The point I was making was once Leyland took Jaguar over, including Guy Motors, matters took a different turn as there was no love lost between Leyland and Gardner which was a well known fact and of course Gardners main customers were Atkinson, ERF and Foden who were all competitors of The Leyland Group companies. Leyland had a major shareholding in Fodens and supplied them with many 680 Power Plus engines. You will probably recall that it was a struggle to buy a Gardner engine chassis in the late 60’s and well into the 70’s particularly the 8LXB engine but there was no way by this time that Guy figured very highly as a Gardner user once they were within the Leyland fold. I have said previously that I don’t doubt there may have been a few Guys built with the 8LXB engine but no where near the numbers that have been claimed particularly when this engine was “rationed” to their three big customers. All I ever asked for was a side view shot of an 8LXB Big J but for some very strange reason none have materialised and even some TN members who were fairly close to Guy’s had never seen or heard of one of these Beasts. As an aside I can say that once the 180LXB was reduced to powering units only up to 30:5 tons gvw I understand that the 180LXB became more readily available and Guy’s were able to obtain this engine more easily especially when the Big J was in it’s “death throes” in the mid 70’s plus Guy chassis became available “ex stock” in late '76/'77. I know I’m rambling,sorry ! Cheers Dennis.
Rambling Dennis, You must be feeling your age you silly old git, Have a few drams, Or open another bottle of Bubbley, & Chill out my good friend, Ive had a good day driving a fork lift, & Im now having a Large Glenmoray Sherry cask single malt just to calm me down , Not that I nead calming down, Im om top form at the moment, But I might be deed in the morning Eh, I [zb] hope not I have a lot of Malts in my stash that I hope to savour & replace before I go Hic Hic, Regards Larry.
Aye OK Larry ! but how long did you keep the Lad waiting before you came out of the Brew Cabin to tip him ? 
Cheers Dennis.
Dennis the only thing I ever tipped was a load of sand, 
Im only joking I allways tipped the right people , As I am as honest as the day is long, Have a good night as Im off to bed now, Im going into The Toon in the morning to get my Oysters, & XXL Crevets from Fenwicks, Just to keep me fit as a lop, Regards Larry.
gingerfold:
When I get a day or two to spare I will visit the Anson Engine Museum and trawl through all the 8LXB engine record sheets and find out where they went to. Every Gardner engine built since day 1, of whatever type, has its own record sheet with full details on it. And Dennis, just a point, by virtue of the fact that Guy built psvs for many years with Gardner engines it was classed as a major customer by Gardners, and the two companies had a good business relationship.
TruckNetUK,Old Times Lorries,Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units.VALKYRIE,Tuesday,13th June,2017.
Hello Gingerfold. I’ve already beaten you to it…well,I have Internet-wise,letter-wise and EMail UK-wise: I have very recently been in contact
with the Anson Engine Museum in regard to Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units,and the curator,Geoff Challinor,has sent to me via EMail attachments scanned photographs of everything that Anson Engine Museum has in regard to Gardner and Guy records in relation to the Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engine 
I contacted Anson Engine Museum in October 2015,and I got a response,but,due to girl problems,unfortunately I didn’t pursue the matter any further.
It was only in May - and now that ‘I’m back on top in June’,to quote the lyrics of a great Frank Sinatra song,That’s Life, - June 2017 - I’ve felt like
doing serious and active Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units research again and contacting the Anson Engine Museum,and also pursuing other avenues on this matter.
Throughout this Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units Thread many TruckNetUK members have provided compelling evidence to prove that
Guy Motors did build Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units:-
1.5thWheel - David drove a Smith Of Madison Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive unit-artic.
2.Reagle I’ll Do It - he also drove a Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive unit.
3.Gazsa401’s father saw Smith Of Madison Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive units.
4.The late Saviem also saw one or two Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive unit-articulated lorries.
5.Dave The Renegade posted a photograph of Guy Big J4T,Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel-Engined,4x2,Flat-Bodied,Articulated Lorry,GDS 427N,
operated by M.A.Evans. He also posted a Chaddesley Commercials,Kidderminster,Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Unit advertisement.
6.NewMercMan also posted a photograph of Guy Big J4T,Motor Panels Sleeper-Cabbed,Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel-Engined,4x2 Tractive Unit,TMT 465M,operated by G.L.Baker.
7.Yours truly,VALKYRIE,posted a British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the production Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units
built by Guy Motors - 29 examples were built.This list,compiled from Guy Motors archives in the vaults and care of the BCVM,has dates,engine and
chassis numbers,customer names,etc,QV below. This list alone proves that Guy Motors built Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units.
NOTE:If I have overlooked other TruckNetUK members who have also provided evidence for these rare Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive units,I’m
sorry for overlooking you.
8.The Commercial Motor Magazine,Friday,2nd November,1973 edition,announced the Gardner 8LXB 240-250 In-Line Eight-Cylinder Diesel Engine
option in the Guy Big J 4T Tractive Unit.
9.The book,Guy Motors Limited And The Wulfrunian,Robin N.Hannay,Transport Publishing Company - TPC,1978,states on page 31 that the Gardner
8LXB engine was optional in the Guy Big J tractive unit.
10.And now for some NEW EVIDENCE - some ‘Thermonuclear Bomb Evidence’ in document form that irrefutably and objectively prove that Guy Motors designed,built and produced Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Tractive Units 
This new evidence is in agreement with the BCVM list of 29
brand new Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive units
As long as you have documentary evidence of this top quality you virtually do not need any photographs to prove whatever you want to prove
This new ‘Thermonuclear Bomb Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units Evidence’ comes from Gardner archives in the already mentioned
Anson Engine Museum. The curator says their Gardner engine archives go up to around 1975,they’ve got nothing on Gardner after that.
I have tried to post Gardner Engine Dispatch Records in both numerical and chronological order ( with start and end dates and lowest to highest engine numbers for each of the twelve pages - if I’m enthusiastic enough to type them! ).
These dispatch records are fascinating documents,not only do they clear up the Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units mystery,but they also document a lot of Gardner Diesel Engines that were also dispatched to Atkinson Vehicles,Bristol Commercial Vehicles,British Leyland,Daimler Transport Vehicles,ERF Ltd,Fodens Ltd,Scammell Lorries,Seddon Motors and other companies.
Gardner Engine Order-Sales To Guy Motors Cards are also published.
Geoff also EMailed an Anson Engine Museum Form.
Geoff’'s EMail letter to me:-
#Gardner.Gardner.EMail UK To Me From Geoff Challinor MBE MIDGTE MManAE,Curator Of The Anson Engine Museum,Regarding Sales Of Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel Engines To Guy Motors.1.
The British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the 29 production Guy Big J 4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units built:-
#Gardner.Gardner.Guy Big J4T 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units Production Details,Chassis Nos,Engine Nos,Dates,Operators,etc,Guy Motors archives,British Commercial Vehicle Museum.1.
The twelve pages of Gardner Engine Dispatch Records which are relevant to Guy Motors:-
(NOTE 1:The engine numbers logically follow each other in ascending order,BUT some of the dates at least are seemingly back to front 
)
(NOTE 2:The third column is the dispatch number)
1.
Engine Numbers: 186255-186285
Dates:21-11-1972 - 7-7-1972
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.1
Engine Numbers: 190252-190282
Dates:18-8-1973 - 7-9-1973
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.2
Engine Numbers: 190283-190313
Dates:7-9-1973 - 14-9-1973
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.3
Engine Numbers: 190590-190620
Dates:12-10-1973 - 15-10-1973
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.4
Engine Numbers: 190931-190960
Dates:26-10-1973 - 7-11-1973
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.5
Engine Numbers: 191364-191394
Dates:27-11–1973 - 13-12-1973
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.6
Engine Numbers: 191674-191704
Dates:21-12-1973 - 17-1-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.7
Engine Numbers: 192389-192419
Dates:26-3-1974 - 29-3-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.8
Engine Numbers: 192854-192884
Dates:12-6-1974 - 10-5-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.9
Engine Numbers: 193257-193287
Dates:3-7-1974 - 21-6-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.10
Engine Numbers: 193505-193535
Dates:12-7-1974 - 20-8-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.11
Engine Numbers: 194217-194247
Dates:10-10-1974 - 17-9-1974
#Gardner.Gardner Dispatch Book Listing 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.12
Gardner Engine Order-Sales To Guy Motors Cards:-
-
6 Gardner 8LXB Engines bought by Guy Motors.
#Gardner.Guy Motors Order Card Listing Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.13
-
12 Gardner 8LXB Engines bought by Guy Motors.
#Gardner.Guy Motors Order Card Listing Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.14
-
26 Gardner 8LXB Engines bought by Guy Motors. A separate order for six 8LXB engines was cancelled.
#Gardner.Guy Motors Order Card Listing Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.15
-
13 Gardner 8LXB Engines bought by Guy Motors.
#Gardner.Guy Motors Order Card Listing Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel Engines Supplied To Guy Motors,For Guy Big J4T Tractive Units.16
Total number of Gardner 8LXB 240-250 8-Cylinder Diesel Engines bought by Guy Motors is 57!
NOTE: Guy Motors built at least 29 production Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units. Did Guy Motors build more than 29 and/or re-engined
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and Gardner 6LXB engined Guy Big J tractive units with those remaining 28 Gardner 8LXB engines? 
#Gardner.Guy.Anson Engine Museum Form. Gardner Archives.17
I hope that the above evidence has finally solved the Guy Big 4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units Mystery - but if you ask me,the British Commercial Vehicle Museum List of those 29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units solved the mystery in September 2015 on this thread
in TruckNetUK And please don’t forget the evidence from other TruckNetUK members that I mentioned near the beginning of this post
Meanwhile I will try to gather any other evidence,including photographs,of Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units
VALKYRIE
I was already convinced of their existence, obviously a side or rear three quarters shot would be nice, but 29 chassis out of all the lorries on the road at the time is a bit of a needle in a haystack, compounded by the fact that not many people carried a camera to work with them at the time, which makes the needle smaller and haystack bigger.
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VALKYRIE,
Well done mate ! Fantastic bit of research completed there. That leaves no doubt about it,and in my
opinion can not not be argued against . I only found out about this last Friday and was just about to start
browsing through about 300 old magazines,so well chuffed you have saved me that job !
Valkyrie,
We’ve have had cause to “meet” here previously you and I,and over this very same subject,and it is with further astonishment to the lengths that you have gone to establish the irrefutable details that Guy did install 240 Gardner powered engines to their Big J range of units,regardless of the lack of any photographic evidence being provided.
As an engine collector,I too have had the need to deal with Geoff at the Anson museum,and what a most helpful gentleman he is,I was unaware that he had access to the remaining Gardner records.
Well done,do not be put off by Dennis’s back tracking by saying he still wants a picture of said Gardner at the rear of a Big J as proof,further proof is now not needed by anyone with an ounce of reality.
With many thanks for your efforts,
David
Bewick:
Has anyone ever built one,sold one when new,repaired one,DRIVEN one,or at least seen one or possibly got a photo (side view) showing the 8 potter sticking out the rear of the cab .
Well it’s taken over 7 years and 123 pages of debate to arrive at this comprehensive and well documented conclusion, and many thanks to “Valkery” ! Although I never disputed that there may have been an 8LXB GUY Big J produced it was just that there was a complete dearth of any concrete evidence to support the fact but the documentary evidence clearly shows that Guy received 57 8LXB engines over the period listed of which S O M were by far the largest recipients so where did all the others go ? It is reckoned that all these 8LXB’s were built by a “Ghost Squad” at Fallings Park which is why no photographic evidence is available However, the effort that has gone into producing this documentary proof has got to be applauded and is most interesting and thoroughly appreciated. Thank you, Dennis.
pete 359:
hi dennis
i like everyone else has come across big j’s with several different types of ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and gardner’s,but i personally have never seen one with the 8 cylinder 240! apart from the one parked outside elvis’s chipshop in grimsby!
regards andrew
Bewick:
Bewick:
Has anyone ever built one,sold one when new,repaired one,DRIVEN one,or at least seen one or possibly got a photo (side view) showing the 8 potter sticking out the rear of the cab .Well it’s taken over 7 years and 123 pages of debate to arrive at this comprehensive and well documented conclusion, and many thanks to “Valkery” ! Although I never disputed that there may have been an 8LXB GUY Big J produced it was just that there was a complete dearth of any concrete evidence to support the fact but the documentary evidence clearly shows that Guy received 57 8LXB engines over the period listed of which S O M were by far the largest recipients so where did all the others go ? It is reckoned that all these 8LXB’s were built by a “Ghost Squad” at Fallings Park which is why no photographic evidence is available
It’s to be regretted that you failed to show a common belief in those men that had either driven or worked on the Guy in question,this failure questioned the very integrity of those men concerned.
David