Dennis Javelin:
This is the list posted by Valkyrie on 13 June 2017. The hand written notes from the despatch book show that the first 8LXB was sent to Guy on 12 July 1972 would it have taken over a year to put one on the road? I would point out that somewhere in this thread there is a pic of a J4T with a Glasgow reg no (DS). All the SOM reg no’s would be normally come from the sequence of either MS or WG so I don’t think that this was an ex SOM unit.
The British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the 29 production Guy Big J 4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units built:-
#Gardner.Gardner.Guy Big J4T 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units Production Details,Chassis Nos,Engine Nos,Dates,Operators,etc,Guy Motors archives,British Commercial Vehicle Museum.1.
Dennis,there were many LS BJ’s too,Manchester had quite a few,one example GLS120N Guy BJ driven during the day shift by Teddy Hirst and was allocated as a night shift spare unit if required by any depot requiring a replacement during the night shift,this vehicle IIRC was a 220 ■■■■■■■ powered unit.
David
I had discounted the LS code as it only came into being in Aug 74 for Stirling registrations, it previously being a Selkirk reg and I’m sure the reg on the pic was a DS code which was formerly Peebles but transferred to Glasgow at the same time. Checked a few old pics and you are perfectly correct that some SOM J4T’s did carry the LS code. To be honest I couldn’t be bothered trawling through all the back posts to find it so was working from memory but I don’t think it was an LS code. Bit lazy on my part but it is a Friday afternoon
5thwheel:
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
I’ve been going through the CM used truck ads for the right time scale.So far most are 220 ■■■■■■■ with a few 6 LXB’s.No 8 LXB’s.
If SoM thought that the 8 LXB was the way to go why didn’t they standardise on it across their BigJ fleet ?.What was the proportion of ■■■■■■■ v 8 LXB and why.
I’m sceptical of the inconsistent nature of the ‘records’ showing lots more engines than trucks and then no sign of an 8 LXB powered Big J anywhere when surely CM would have wanted to test one.
If anything they’ve added to the mystery rather than solved it.
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
0
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
DEANB:
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
0
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
DEANB:
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
Has anyone had the temerity to ask to see their old photographs?
It seems that Longtons are long gone but it might be the one that belonged to M A Evans as they are based around the same area as Chadderleys. I will contact Evan’s on Monday to hopefully get some more info and, if possible, pics. I’m still baffled however by the Glasgow reg no.
Hi D J, The reg is Peebles , Which makes it a bit more interesting, I dont recall many hauliers from that area in those days, But I will stand corrected, Regards Larry.
Frankydobo:
An M Reg SoM GUY from the Smiths photo’s I looked through none of which shone any light on the subject and although no engine badge is shown on the grille its possibly a contender with the year of manufacture. It doesn’t really help when front views of vehicles don’t have the power unit badge or name on the grille. Franky.
0
That photo Frankydobo shows the Manchester based units for sale at the Manchester depot after Smiths packed it in whilst under the wing of United Transport.
You will notice an A4 piece of paper on the dash and visible through the windscreen which details the units details mileage,engine,transmission etc,a lot of Guy’s had lost their respective engine badge.
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
David
Well David I have given this shot of the SOM Big J’s for sale at their Manchester depot a bit more thought and it is a bit baffling as to why United would adopt this method of disposal rather than collect all the fleet up in one place for an auction. Seems to me like it was a case of inviting every man and his dog to call in and make a bid !! But then again going by what may have been the average age of the units , and if it was the mid 80’s, well none of the Big J’s at circa 10 years old would have much value ! maybe a grand £££ or so as decent shunters but no more. Sounds like it was a case of just liquidate the fleet for what could be got £££ . James and Alex would have been spinning in their graves ! Cheers Dennis.
Frankydobo:
An M Reg SoM GUY from the Smiths photo’s I looked through none of which shone any light on the subject and although no engine badge is shown on the grille its possibly a contender with the year of manufacture. It doesn’t really help when front views of vehicles don’t have the power unit badge or name on the grille. Franky.
0
That photo Frankydobo shows the Manchester based units for sale at the Manchester depot after Smiths packed it in whilst under the wing of United Transport.
You will notice an A4 piece of paper on the dash and visible through the windscreen which details the units details mileage,engine,transmission etc,a lot of Guy’s had lost their respective engine badge.
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
David
Well David I have given this shot of the SOM Big J’s for sale at their Manchester depot a bit more thought and it is a bit baffling as to why United would adopt this method of disposal rather than collect all the fleet up in one place for an auction. Seems to me like it was a case of inviting every man and his dog to call in and make a bid !! But then again going by what may have been the average age of the units , and if it was the mid 80’s, well none of the Big J’s at circa 10 years old would have much value ! maybe a grand £££ or so as decent shunters but no more. Sounds like it was a case of just liquidate the fleet for what could be got £££ . James and Alex would have been spinning in their graves ! Cheers Dennis.
James and Alex sold their respective interests in SoM in 1968,IIRC,to the United Transport mob,leaving Murray Smith,one of the sons,as a Director,however I think Murray was the Murray Smith transport,so he obviously pulled out quite a bit before the mid 80’s demise.
Re the “fire sale”,along with the BJ’s there would have been a lot of ERF B series units,which is the marque that I finished my days with.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi D J, The reg is Peebles , Which makes it a bit more interesting, I dont recall many hauliers from that area in those days, But I will stand corrected, Regards Larry.
This reg code was transferred to Glasgow in Aug 74 at the start of the N suffix marks. Something to do with changes to local government boundaries or some other malarkey. I think at this time they closed a lot of the local licensing offices. We discussed it earlier with the transfer of the LS code from Selkirk to Stirling hence SOM gaining some LS reg no’s.
Bewick:
But then again going by what may have been the average age of the units , and if it was the mid 80’s, well none of the Big J’s at circa 10 years old would have much value ! maybe a grand £££ or so as decent shunters but no more. Sounds like it was a case of just liquidate the fleet for what could be got £££ . James and Alex would have been spinning in their graves ! Cheers Dennis.
Keeping any truck for even close to that length of time can only be based on a business plan of run it until it’s worth only scrap value.Arguably a good way of circumventing compounding depreciation costs ?.
Dennis Javelin:
This is a copy of the Gardner order form for 6 and 8 LXB engines to be supplied between 1972 and 1975. I also have copies from the despatch book showing when they were sent. It appears that there was indeed a large number of 8LXB’s supplied during this period but not all at once as was previously thought. The copies were in PDF format and this site does not support that so I have taken a screenshot on my phone. I don’t know how to convert them from PDF to JPEG so I will get them scanned and post them all later.
I can only count 16no. 8LXBs in the order forms. Were there more order forms? Maybe some 8LXBs were supplied outside the period 1972-'75?
Dennis Javelin:
This is a copy of the Gardner order form for 6 and 8 LXB engines to be supplied between 1972 and 1975. I also have copies from the despatch book showing when they were sent. It appears that there was indeed a large number of 8LXB’s supplied during this period but not all at once as was previously thought. The copies were in PDF format and this site does not support that so I have taken a screenshot on my phone. I don’t know how to convert them from PDF to JPEG so I will get them scanned and post them all later.
I can only count 16no. 8LXBs in the order forms. Were there more order forms? Maybe some 8LXBs were supplied outside the period 1972-'75?
I had only screen grabbed 2 of the 3 order forms at the time I posted that. Managed to get the rest transferred to a format that can be posted on here now and this is the other one.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi D J, The reg is Peebles , Which makes it a bit more interesting, I dont recall many hauliers from that area in those days, But I will stand corrected, Regards Larry.
This reg code was transferred to Glasgow in Aug 74 at the start of the N suffix marks. Something to do with changes to local government boundaries or some other malarkey. I think at this time they closed a lot of the local licensing offices. We discussed it earlier with the transfer of the LS code from Selkirk to Stirling hence SOM gaining some LS reg no’s.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi D J, The reg is Peebles , Which makes it a bit more interesting, I dont recall many hauliers from that area in those days, But I will stand corrected, Regards Larry.
This reg code was transferred to Glasgow in Aug 74 at the start of the N suffix marks. Something to do with changes to local government boundaries or some other malarkey. I think at this time they closed a lot of the local licensing offices. We discussed it earlier with the transfer of the LS code from Selkirk to Stirling hence SOM gaining some LS reg no’s.
Hi D J, Thanks for the info, Regards Larry.
I know that Millburn Motors had a place in Glasgow so it might have been supplied through them to a local customer. They used to hold their own “CV Show” around about the same time as the main Scottish show.
Dennis Javelin:
This is a copy of the Gardner order form for 6 and 8 LXB engines to be supplied between 1972 and 1975. I also have copies from the despatch book showing when they were sent. It appears that there was indeed a large number of 8LXB’s supplied during this period but not all at once as was previously thought. The copies were in PDF format and this site does not support that so I have taken a screenshot on my phone. I don’t know how to convert them from PDF to JPEG so I will get them scanned and post them all later.
2
1
I can only count 16no. 8LXBs in the order forms. Were there more order forms? Maybe some 8LXBs were supplied outside the period 1972-'75?
I had only screen grabbed 2 of the 3 order forms at the time I posted that. Managed to get the rest transferred to a format that can be posted on here now and this is the other one.
I make it 42 engines, between 1972 and '75. We must not discount the periods before and after this- maybe there were more. As it is, there are 12 not accounted for on the BCVM list. I wonder where they went? If they didn’t go in Big J’s, Leyland had a large range of vehicles which would have benefitted from having an 8LXB under the cab.
Dennis- what would be the preferred specification in the day- Leyland Buffalo/8LXB or Atki with a ■■■■■■■ 220? LOL.
Dennis Javelin:
This is a copy of the Gardner order form for 6 and 8 LXB engines to be supplied between 1972 and 1975. I also have copies from the despatch book showing when they were sent. It appears that there was indeed a large number of 8LXB’s supplied during this period but not all at once as was previously thought. The copies were in PDF format and this site does not support that so I have taken a screenshot on my phone. I don’t know how to convert them from PDF to JPEG so I will get them scanned and post them all later.
2
1
I can only count 16no. 8LXBs in the order forms. Were there more order forms? Maybe some 8LXBs were supplied outside the period 1972-'75?
I had only screen grabbed 2 of the 3 order forms at the time I posted that. Managed to get the rest transferred to a format that can be posted on here now and this is the other one.
I make it 42 engines, between 1972 and '75. We must not discount the periods before and after this- maybe there were more. As it is, there are 12 not accounted for on the BCVM list. I wonder where they went? If they didn’t go in Big J’s, Leyland had a large range of vehicles which would have benefitted from having an 8LXB under the cab.
Dennis- what would be the preferred specification in the day- Leyland Buffalo/8LXB or Atki with a ■■■■■■■ 220? LOL.
That would probably have depended on whether you were a driver or a company boss.
Dennis Javelin:
This is a copy of the Gardner order form for 6 and 8 LXB engines to be supplied between 1972 and 1975. I also have copies from the despatch book showing when they were sent. It appears that there was indeed a large number of 8LXB’s supplied during this period but not all at once as was previously thought. The copies were in PDF format and this site does not support that so I have taken a screenshot on my phone. I don’t know how to convert them from PDF to JPEG so I will get them scanned and post them all later.
2
1
I can only count 16no. 8LXBs in the order forms. Were there more order forms? Maybe some 8LXBs were supplied outside the period 1972-'75?
I had only screen grabbed 2 of the 3 order forms at the time I posted that. Managed to get the rest transferred to a format that can be posted on here now and this is the other one.
I make it 42 engines, between 1972 and '75. We must not discount the periods before and after this- maybe there were more. As it is, there are 12 not accounted for on the BCVM list. I wonder where they went? If they didn’t go in Big J’s, Leyland had a large range of vehicles which would have benefitted from having an 8LXB under the cab.
Dennis- what would be the preferred specification in the day- Leyland Buffalo/8LXB or Atki with a ■■■■■■■ 220? LOL.
Elementary Dr. Watson it would be the Atkinson/220 ■■■■■■■■
DEANB:
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
1
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
Has anyone had the temerity to ask to see their old photographs?
It seems that Longtons are long gone but it might be the one that belonged to M A Evans as they are based around the same area as Chadderleys. I will contact Evan’s on Monday to hopefully get some more info and, if possible, pics. I’m still baffled however by the Glasgow reg no.
It was new to a fuel company in Scotland, when M A Evans bought it she was sent to Longton to have a sleeper cab fitted, info supplied by a lad who has written a book on M A Evans history, they have the same pics as Dave The renegade posted all those years ago
DEANB:
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
1
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
Has anyone had the temerity to ask to see their old photographs?
It seems that Longtons are long gone but it might be the one that belonged to M A Evans as they are based around the same area as Chadderleys. I will contact Evan’s on Monday to hopefully get some more info and, if possible, pics. I’m still baffled however by the Glasgow reg no.
It was new to a fuel company in Scotland, when M A Evans bought it she was sent to Longton to have a sleeper cab fitted, info supplied by a lad who has written a book on M A Evans history, they have the same pics as Dave The renegade posted all those years ago
DEANB:
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
1
That issue of CM was dated 23 April 1976. Whoever had this unit they never kept it for very long so I guess that rules out SOM.
Has anyone had the temerity to ask to see their old photographs?
It seems that Longtons are long gone but it might be the one that belonged to M A Evans as they are based around the same area as Chadderleys. I will contact Evan’s on Monday to hopefully get some more info and, if possible, pics. I’m still baffled however by the Glasgow reg no.
I e-mailed M A Evans over the weekend and got a reply this morning. I have asked Roy for some additional info and hopefully can add to this soon.
From: M.A.Evans Transport info@maevans.co.uk
Sent: 15 February 2021 09:50
Subject: RE: Your old fleet - GUY J4T GDS427N
Good morning
It was bought second hand from Chaddesley Commercials of Kidderminster (John May). It was advertised in the commercial motor and I bought it one Saturday morning. It definitely had a Garner 8LXB and it was an excellent lorry.
Cheers Dennis.
