5thwheel:
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
I’ve been going through the CM used truck ads for the right time scale.So far most are 220 ■■■■■■■ with a few 6 LXB’s.No 8 LXB’s.
If SoM thought that the 8 LXB was the way to go why didn’t they standardise on it across their BigJ fleet ?.What was the proportion of ■■■■■■■ v 8 LXB and why.
I’m sceptical of the inconsistent nature of the ‘records’ showing lots more engines than trucks and then no sign of an 8 LXB powered Big J anywhere when surely CM would have wanted to test one.
If anything they’ve added to the mystery rather than solved it.
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
5thwheel:
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
I’ve been going through the CM used truck ads for the right time scale.So far most are 220 ■■■■■■■ with a few 6 LXB’s.No 8 LXB’s.
If SoM thought that the 8 LXB was the way to go why didn’t they standardise on it across their BigJ fleet ?.What was the proportion of ■■■■■■■ v 8 LXB and why.
I’m sceptical of the inconsistent nature of the ‘records’ showing lots more engines than trucks and then no sign of an 8 LXB powered Big J anywhere when surely CM would have wanted to test one.
If anything they’ve added to the mystery rather than solved it.
They would have been testing the 8 LXB’s in newer designs as the GUY Big J had been about along time. Not sure what
year they stopped building them think it was 77/78 ish.
Heres one that was for sale in CM.Click on twice.
0
The tel no is for Chaddesley Commercials who were big used vehicle dealers, still going today as far as I know. Perhaps someone on here might know them and could get some more info - as if we need any more
Big J production was wound down by British Leyland during 1979 and since its arrival in 1964 the cab was looking dated even with the slight cosmetic changes. Fallings Park though was still turning out normal control Leyland Landmasters chassis until closing down, GUY chassis for the Medium Warrior and Heavy Victory Trambus with Gardner or Leyland engines were still being built at Leyland until 1986 due to customer demand. There was until the end still great interest in the GUY name. Maybe Leyland should have shelved one of its other brands and kept the GUY marque going with a new tilting sleeper cab for the medium market and kept the T45 solely for the heavy end. Franky.
windrush:
The late ‘Dave the Renegade’ posted the same advert back on page 35 and I think it had already been sold by then!
Pete.
Either there was closer to 100 than 30 of the things made or the engines as recorded can’t be attributed by default to BigJ production.
Assuming the former then just one of them appearing in the used ads so far seems a bit strange.
Which leaves the possibility that there are clear ads showing a demand for Gardner engined Guys at the relevant time by scrap dealer/s obviously to send their motors for export ( for marine use ? ).
Maybe their 8 LXB spec combined with a cheap as chips chassis from the start made them prime candidates for the breakers’ gas axe bearing in mind that the turbocharged era was well underway by that point in the late 1970’s.
What’s needed is a record which correlates both 8LXB engine numbers and BigJ chassis numbers.
In which case how does July 1972 fit the time frame.Were they putting them into stock waiting for the launch.
Contrary to Bewick’s idea maybe Guy was actually left with more unwanted 8LXB engines than customer orders for the 8LXB BigJ.
Frankydobo:
An M Reg SoM GUY from the Smiths photo’s I looked through none of which shone any light on the subject and although no engine badge is shown on the grille its possibly a contender with the year of manufacture. It doesn’t really help when front views of vehicles don’t have the power unit badge or name on the grille. Franky.
0
That photo Frankydobo shows the Manchester based units for sale at the Manchester depot after Smiths packed it in whilst under the wing of United Transport.
You will notice an A4 piece of paper on the dash and visible through the windscreen which details the units details mileage,engine,transmission etc,a lot of Guy’s had lost their respective engine badge.
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
David
I was pondering that shot David as I could see there was no RFL & Operator discs in the windscreens ! So what year was this when SOM closed down and was it sort of sudden like. What reason did United give for the reason for the SOM closure ? Just interested although there would have been something in the Commercial Motor etc.at the time. Thanks Dennis.
Hi Dennis,
My last shift was autumn 1982,I could see the writing on the wall for road transport,so handed in my notice to Harold Gilmore,the Manchester depot manager(or it could have been Frank Jackson the day Foreman,not sure).
I think they lasted a few more years after I left,so my guess would be mid 80’s when they chucked the towel in.
As an aside,I joined Smith’s in 1976,my first day I was driven by Harold Gilmore,who gave me the start,over to Newton le Willows depot to collect the brand new big Percy Guy,I drove it back to Manchester depot thinking all my Christmases had come at once,what a flyer!
I mentioned this to a Maddiston driver I was doing a change over with,Tom ? who informed me that SoM had many of the 240 powered Guy’s being delivered to depots throughout the country.
Frankydobo:
An M Reg SoM GUY from the Smiths photo’s I looked through none of which shone any light on the subject and although no engine badge is shown on the grille its possibly a contender with the year of manufacture. It doesn’t really help when front views of vehicles don’t have the power unit badge or name on the grille. Franky.
0
That photo Frankydobo shows the Manchester based units for sale at the Manchester depot after Smiths packed it in whilst under the wing of United Transport.
You will notice an A4 piece of paper on the dash and visible through the windscreen which details the units details mileage,engine,transmission etc,a lot of Guy’s had lost their respective engine badge.
Fleet No OD 922,IIRC was a day motor powered by a ■■■■■■■ 220 with a RangeChange Fuller box,a very common spec for a lot of Smiths motors.
David
I was pondering that shot David as I could see there was no RFL & Operator discs in the windscreens ! So what year was this when SOM closed down and was it sort of sudden like. What reason did United give for the reason for the SOM closure ? Just interested although there would have been something in the Commercial Motor etc.at the time. Thanks Dennis.
Hi Dennis,
My last shift was autumn 1982,I could see the writing on the wall for road transport,so handed in my notice to Harold Gilmore,the Manchester depot manager(or it could have been Frank Jackson the day Foreman,not sure).
I think they lasted a few more years after I left,so my guess would be mid 80’s when they chucked the towel in.
Hope this helps,
David
Thanks for the gen David and I would think if the profit margins had been declining or had even disappeared then United would have taken the decision to wrap the subsidiary up similar to what TDG were doing with a number of their group members at the same time. Cheers Dennis.
Do the handwritten sheets recently posted correlate with the information that Valkyrie got from the BCVM? How many lorries are we talking about now? Is it 40, as originally estimated, or 29?
windrush:
The late ‘Dave the Renegade’ posted the same advert back on page 35 and I think it had already been sold by then!
Pete.
Either there was closer to 100 than 30 of the things made or the engines as recorded can’t be attributed by default to BigJ production.
Assuming the former then just one of them appearing in the used ads so far seems a bit strange.
Which leaves the possibility that there are clear ads showing a demand for Gardner engined Guys at the relevant time by scrap dealer/s obviously to send their motors for export ( for marine use ? ).
Maybe their 8 LXB spec combined with a cheap as chips chassis from the start made them prime candidates for the breakers’ gas axe bearing in mind that the turbocharged era was well underway by that point in the late 1970’s.
What’s needed is a record which correlates both 8LXB engine numbers and BigJ chassis numbers.
In which case how does July 1972 fit the time frame.Were they putting them into stock waiting for the launch.
Contrary to Bewick’s idea maybe Guy was actually left with more unwanted 8LXB engines than customer orders for the 8LXB BigJ.
Oh I am glad to note the appearance, finally, of our Leatherhead Annalist onto the thread who has applied a bit of “forensic common sense” to the mix now then Lads you must pay attention as The Great Man dosen’t suffer any nonsense from the Lower orders ! Cheers Bewick
[zb]
anorak:
Do the handwritten sheets recently posted correlate with the information that Valkyrie got from the BCVM? How many lorries are we talking about now? Is it 40, as originally estimated, or 29?
Well according to the “records” the number of 8LXB’s allocated to Guy Motors was 57 so the arithmetic becomes even stranger !
[zb]
anorak:
Do the handwritten sheets recently posted correlate with the information that Valkyrie got from the BCVM? How many lorries are we talking about now? Is it 40, as originally estimated, or 29?
There are 30 on the hand written sheets. If you want I can detail the dates on the sheets.
[zb]
anorak:
Do the handwritten sheets recently posted correlate with the information that Valkyrie got from the BCVM? How many lorries are we talking about now? Is it 40, as originally estimated, or 29?
There are 30 on the hand written sheets. If you want I can detail the dates on the sheets.
Tommy
I trust you!
IIRC, earlier in the thread it said X went to Smith’s, and one went somewhere else. would I be right in saying that, according to this latest information, that 29 went to Smith’s and the odd one out went to another operator?
Bewick:
Oh I am glad to note the appearance, finally, of our Leatherhead Annalist onto the thread who has applied a bit of “forensic common sense” to the mix now then Lads you must pay attention as The Great Man dosen’t suffer any nonsense from the Lower orders ! Cheers Bewick
Nooo!!! While everyone else tiptoes around the cowpat, Dennis jumps in with both wellies.
This is the list posted by Valkyrie on 13 June 2017. The hand written notes from the despatch book show that the first 8LXB was sent to Guy on 12 July 1972 would it have taken over a year to put one on the road? I would point out that somewhere in this thread there is a pic of a J4T with a Glasgow reg no (DS). All the SOM reg no’s would be normally come from the sequence of either MS or WG so I don’t think that this was an ex SOM unit.
The British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the 29 production Guy Big J 4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units built:-
#Gardner.Gardner.Guy Big J4T 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units Production Details,Chassis Nos,Engine Nos,Dates,Operators,etc,Guy Motors archives,British Commercial Vehicle Museum.1.
Dennis Javelin:
This is the list posted by Valkyrie on 13 June 2017. The hand written notes from the despatch book show that the first 8LXB was sent to Guy on 12 July 1972 and these correspond to the engine no’s below. I would point out that somewhere in this thread there is a pic of a J4T with a Glasgow reg no (DS). All the SOM reg no’s would be normally come from the sequence of either MS or WG so I don’t think that this was an ex SOM unit.
The British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the 29 production Guy Big J 4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units built:-
#Gardner.Gardner.Guy Big J4T 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units Production Details,Chassis Nos,Engine Nos,Dates,Operators,etc,Guy Motors archives,British Commercial Vehicle Museum.1.
[zb]
anorak:
Aha! I had somehow forgotten that list. Just to be sure, does it correspond with the handwritten sheets?
Obviously not unless most of them were fitted with two engines and/or they were ordering engines with a year or more lead time.
The only logical conclusion is that Guy managed to get their hands on a load of 8LXB motors and put them into stock to supply an option which didn’t sell as well as expected.
Don’t get why any customer would have chosen ■■■■■■■ 220 v 8LXB in that regard although Bewick seems to think it makes sense although he swears by the Gardner durability and fuel usage reputation.
Dennis Javelin:
This is the list posted by Valkyrie on 13 June 2017. The hand written notes from the despatch book show that the first 8LXB was sent to Guy on 12 July 1972 would it have taken over a year to put one on the road? I would point out that somewhere in this thread there is a pic of a J4T with a Glasgow reg no (DS). All the SOM reg no’s would be normally come from the sequence of either MS or WG so I don’t think that this was an ex SOM unit.
The British Commercial Vehicle Museum - BCVM list of all the 29 production Guy Big J 4T Gardner 8LXB Tractive Units built:-
#Gardner.Gardner.Guy Big J4T 8LXB 240-250 Eight-Cylinder In Line Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units Production Details,Chassis Nos,Engine Nos,Dates,Operators,etc,Guy Motors archives,British Commercial Vehicle Museum.1.
Dennis,there were many LS BJ’s too,Manchester had quite a few,one example GLS120N Guy BJ driven during the day shift by Teddy Hirst and was allocated as a night shift spare unit if required by any depot requiring a replacement during the night shift,this vehicle IIRC was a 220 ■■■■■■■ powered unit.
