Well, I’m still kerfuddling through work with these here puddlejumpers
For overnight shifts, these need to be a maximum of 10 hours, but when does this start for qualification and what is included?
If I start at midnight, is 10am when I should book off, and likewise a 2am start only goes to 12 noon?
For example, last week I had a journey down to Harold Hill and Southend from Coventry. Each site took 90 minutes (loading and unloading) then although route down was M1/M25 the M1 had an incident there last week so had to avoid that area coming back. I ended up doing a 0200 - 1400, which of that 1hr was break, 5hr was loading and 6 hours of driving.
But I don’t know how I could have shortened that. I stuck to the speed limits but the way back took 3.5 hours whilst the route out took about 2.5, but outbound was obviously at night.
The TM STILL critisized me for ‘taking my time’ on the drive back There are some you just can’t please
Anyway, I’m a bit annoyed with them though as I’m out on Sunday night at midnight for a shift then Tuesday and Wednesday. This means I can’t work Tuesday a day shift can I and Friday, well, I’ll have to see what I can get for that…
Anyway, yeah, so guidance on the hours, the shift and shortening things…
Coffeeholic is your man for this but i’ll try - I THINK it is a total of 10 hours from start to finish including the break BUT I am using a residential care homes’ fact sheet to get my info
Sorry to disagree but I would say that the 10 hours is working time and excludes breaks (so 10 hours + breaks).
But you can opt out of the 10 hour rule with a collective workforce agreement.
Quotes from “The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005”
“night time” means in respect of goods vehicles the period
between midnight and 4 a.m.
Night work
The working time of a mobile worker, who performs night
work in any period of 24 hours, shall not exceed 10 hours during that
period.
“working time” means the time from the beginning to the end of work during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of his employer and exercising his functions or activities, being
(a) time devoted to all road transport activities, including, in
particular -
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from
the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the
vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or
regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific
transport operation under way, including monitoring of
loading and unloading and dealing with administrative
formalities with police, customs, immigration officers and
others; or
(b) time during which the mobile worker cannot dispose freely
of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take
up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on
duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading
where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is
to say either before departure or just before the actual start of
the period in question, or under collective agreements or
workforce agreements;
I agree with what tachograph said, he is spot on. The 10 hour limit is working time only, POA and breaks don’t count toward the 10 hours, so you could still legally have a shift of up to 15 hours.
Coffeeholic:
I agree with what tachograph said, he is spot on. The 10 hour limit is working time only, POA and breaks don’t count toward the 10 hours, so you could still legally have a shift of up to 15 hours.
I see I’m too late but I’ll post this anyway. From here
4.1 If a mobile worker does any work during the night time period, he/she will be subject to the night work limit.
What is the working time limit for night work?
4.3 Unless you have a relevant agreement, workers are limited to 10 hours work (i.e. working time) over the 24 hour period. As with the other working time limits under this legislation, breaks and periods of availability are not included in the 10 hour limit.
Coffeeholic:
I agree with what tachograph said, he is spot on. The 10 hour limit is working time only, POA and breaks don’t count toward the 10 hours, so you could still legally have a shift of up to 15 hours.
By starting at 2am and working til 2pm and doing a 5hours loading and 6hours driving you exceeded your allowed working time by 1hour (assuming you have no collective opt out agreement in place). The only way around it in future is to either pull over when you get to 10hours and call in to say you’ve run out of hours (or plan ahead and just head back earlier/cancel a drop), or get somebody to do some of the loading for you while you sit on break/POA for an extra hour.
Saratoga:
Having read up on it and actually implemented it this last shift I’ve got the flak now.
It seems the agency had an “opt out agreement” but failed to tell me.
Has now ■■■■■■ off the client. Agy suggests that I could work a 12-15h shift overnight… treat it as a normal day shift…
Hmm.
As far as I can see from “The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005” it is possible for an agency to have a work force agreement to opt out of the 10 hour rule but would be quite difficult with the agency’s I’ve worked for, If I were you I would try to get it in writing that they have an opt out agreement and the date it was signed by the representatives of the workforce, you could be tact full about it and email them asking them to confirm the fact, if they don’t have a workforce collective agreement then under normal agency conditions you should be working to the same regulations as the workforce directly employed by the company you’re at.
Have they opted out of the 10 hour rule at the company you’re driving for ?
If so then you should be OK anyway.
The TM insists that their warehouse staff work 12h overnight shifts and he’s not had a problem with the drivers doing it. Then again, this is also a TM who has complained about me sticking to the speed limits, ie 50mph on a s/c, 60 on a d/c. The Tachograph doesn’t know where I am therefore I can do 70 most places…
I’m increasingly moving into the position to try and apply for a permanent job somewhere, and possibly one out of the driving industry. Also I feel pretty [zb] anyway. The cold doesn’t help, nor the flea bites I got from a courier van a week ago.
But thanks for you’re advice.
As for the email, the agy said that the “agreement” was in “their” agreements and contracts with the client. As in, they’ve written it into their contracts.
The TM said that the WTD was a voluntary EU thing we’ve not signed up to and it’s an ‘opt in’ thing.
I’m tempted now actually quite a lot more to try and get a day shift somewhere else from this company and if there are problems perhaps change agency. Which is a pity as they’re only down the road for me…
I dunno, this whole business is really [zb] me off at the moment.
Just had a call from the Agency. Remember the link above from the DFT? I printed that out, from the source, and kept a copy with me and handed one to the transport manager at the client to show of my 10 hours a night. He wasnt there, so I gave it to a manager there to give to the relevant person.
Client has complained to agency that i have been leafleting their drivers about this stuff. I put my point across but also said that its not worth the hassle with this job and send me somewhere else next week. Doubt I’d go back there. Alas my timesheet wasn’t signed up to date, but I’ve got the tacho for the work done to prove it. I’ll hand a photocopy into the agency until I get paid.
This may of course put me on dangerous ground, but I have been here before.
Coffeeholic:
I agree with what tachograph said, he is spot on. The 10 hour limit is working time only, POA and breaks don’t count toward the 10 hours, so you could still legally have a shift of up to 15 hours.
I was reminded of this tonight. Although was basically informed that ‘waiting in the transport office for the job until I was ready to go’ was POA despite them not knowing when I would be ready.
