Just come across this from the .gov website -
“You must not be on duty for more than 11 hours in any working day.”
And then -
“If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time.”
So, because driving is counted as working time as well, I’m reading this as that I’m breaking the domestic rules pretty much every single working day? Driving time + other work = working time, and this is nearly always > 11 hours.
I’m sure I’m missing something obvious… What is it?
Domestic hours don’t apply to a lot of us.
What are you driving?
I’m a regular artic driver, employed by a company, I’ve just always been under the assumption that both EU AND domestic rules apply to us, but as the EU ones tend to be stricter, they’re the only ones to really worry about?
Nope if you’re on normal HGV haulage then EU regs apply, but if you’re have an exemption from EU Drivers Hours regs then Domestic Regs apply.
At least as I understand it. 
Yes in general taken at face value and used accordingly Domestic rules mean/meant more sleep between shifts more driving time to get where you’re going at decent speeds and more time for breaks without the guvnor knowing.
But who wants that when you can have the idea of plodding French speed limits and ■■■■ type spy in ze cab tachos telling you to drive when you feel like a break and driving time limits telling you to park up when you could be driving and 15 hour days with possibly less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.All pushed by those saying how lucky we are to be in the EU. 
Javiatrix:
I’m a regular artic driver, employed by a company, I’ve just always been under the assumption that both EU AND domestic rules apply to us, but as the EU ones tend to be stricter, they’re the only ones to really worry about?
EU rules supersede GB domestic rules. The vast majority of vehicles over 3.5t come under the EU rules. There are of course some exemptions.
11 hours max duty sounds good though. Hope they bring it back when we ditch the EU. Sorry, I mean errrr Brexit. Gotta use the right buzz words.
bigvern1:
Domestic hours don’t apply to a lot of us.
They do for a lot of van drivers.
Javiatrix:
I’m a regular artic driver, employed by a company, I’ve just always been under the assumption that both EU AND domestic rules apply to us, but as the EU ones tend to be stricter, they’re the only ones to really worry about?
Don’t forget 15 mins break by 6 hours, 30 by 9 and 45 afterwards.
Carryfast:
Yes in general taken at face value and used accordingly Domestic rules mean/meant more sleep between shifts more driving time to get where you’re going at decent speeds and more time for breaks without the guvnor knowing.But who wants that when you can have the idea of plodding French speed limits and ■■■■ type spy in ze cab tachos telling you to drive when you feel like a break and driving time limits telling you to park up when you could be driving and 15 hour days with possibly less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.All pushed by those saying how lucky we are to be in the EU.
+1
htmldude:
Don’t forget 15 mins break by 6 hours, 30 by 9 and 45 afterwards.
I think I’ll forget it thanks 
htmldude:
Don’t forget 15 mins break by 6 hours, 30 by 9 and 45 afterwards.
Just when I thought I’d heard every ■■■■ witted misinterpretation of the rules…
don’t get confused with domestic rules, its not 11 hours from when you start, duty time does not include breaks during your shift. also you can completely opt out of wtd under domestic rules as well, there are no set daily or weekly rest periods, only that the rest needs to be adequate. so you can work 7 days a week. personally i like my 5 days and 2 off, can’t be doing with working 7 days!!!
wildfire:
don’t get confused with domestic rules, its not 11 hours from when you start, duty time does not include breaks during your shift. also you can completely opt out of wtd under domestic rules as well, there are no set daily or weekly rest periods, only that the rest needs to be adequate. so you can work 7 days a week. personally i like my 5 days and 2 off, can’t be doing with working 7 days!!!
It depends on the interpretation of ‘working day’.Any sensible interpretation means 11 hours max plus breaks during the 24 hours from when you started your shift.IE realistically around 12 hours minimum daily rest depending on breaks taken. As for the definition of ‘adequate’ breaks,daily and weekly rest that’s a lot better to apply common sense to than a definite minimum 9 hours daily rest or split daily rest provision and tacho enforced breaks when you don’t feel like it and having to drive when you do.Although it would be easier to make the few improvements needed in actually fixing a daily and weekly rest regime along the lines of minimum 48 hours unbroken weekly rest and 12 hours daily in that regard than the dogs dinner of EU regs we’ve got.
In addition to the higher daily driving limit being the difference between getting the job done or having to park up.
If the job you are doing is exempt EU regs and put you on UK domestic regs then the max in ANY period of 24 hours is 11 hours work which can include 10 hours driving
That is a rolling 24 hour period not a fixed 24 hour period
Driving time under domestic means time spent behind the wheel whether the vehicle is moving or not
Breaks do not count for working time under domestic regs
Carryfast:
Yes in general taken at face value and used accordingly Domestic rules mean/meant more sleep between shifts more driving time to get where you’re going at decent speeds and more time for breaks without the guvnor knowing.But who wants that when you can have the idea of plodding French speed limits and ■■■■ type spy in ze cab tachos telling you to drive when you feel like a break and driving time limits telling you to park up when you could be driving and 15 hour days with possibly less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.All pushed by those saying how lucky we are to be in the EU.
Or, on the other hand, we could go back to the good old pre-EU days of fiddled logbooks, drivers pushed to work double shifts with very little risk of them being caught, etc.
Think your rose-tinted specs have misted up again Carryfast.
ROG:
If the job you are doing is exempt EU regs and put you on UK domestic regs then the max in ANY period of 24 hours is 11 hours work which can include 10 hours driving
That is a rolling 24 hour period not a fixed 24 hour periodDriving time under domestic means time spent behind the wheel whether the vehicle is moving or not
Breaks do not count for working time under domestic regs
We can do up to 16 hrs ,as we book rest when not working 
It’s funny how people read things looking to get out of the long hours of this industry but only reads the bits that suit them
d4c24a:
ROG:
If the job you are doing is exempt EU regs and put you on UK domestic regs then the max in ANY period of 24 hours is 11 hours work which can include 10 hours driving
That is a rolling 24 hour period not a fixed 24 hour periodDriving time under domestic means time spent behind the wheel whether the vehicle is moving or not
Breaks do not count for working time under domestic regs
We can do up to 16 hrs ,as we book rest when not working
That would be shift time which is different to working time
Sidevalve:
Carryfast:
Yes in general taken at face value and used accordingly Domestic rules mean/meant more sleep between shifts more driving time to get where you’re going at decent speeds and more time for breaks without the guvnor knowing.But who wants that when you can have the idea of plodding French speed limits and ■■■■ type spy in ze cab tachos telling you to drive when you feel like a break and driving time limits telling you to park up when you could be driving and 15 hour days with possibly less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.All pushed by those saying how lucky we are to be in the EU.
Or, on the other hand, we could go back to the good old pre-EU days of fiddled logbooks, drivers pushed to work double shifts with very little risk of them being caught, etc.
Think your rose-tinted specs have misted up again Carryfast.
Or in your obviously pro EU regs rose tinted view no one has ever fiddled tachos by just creating a false record in any number of numerous different ways.As for log books the only ‘creative’ accounts I remember was booking extra breaks as driving and the guvnor couldn’t argue about it.In addition to which,as I said,it would be no problem to amend domestic regs to provide a much better daily and weekly rest provision than that which the EU stasi enforces.As for log books as I’ve said anyone who wants to fiddle a log book in a big way isn’t going to be deterred by fiddling tachos either.
Carryfast:
Sidevalve:
Carryfast:
Yes in general taken at face value and used accordingly Domestic rules mean/meant more sleep between shifts more driving time to get where you’re going at decent speeds and more time for breaks without the guvnor knowing.But who wants that when you can have the idea of plodding French speed limits and ■■■■ type spy in ze cab tachos telling you to drive when you feel like a break and driving time limits telling you to park up when you could be driving and 15 hour days with possibly less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.All pushed by those saying how lucky we are to be in the EU.
Or, on the other hand, we could go back to the good old pre-EU days of fiddled logbooks, drivers pushed to work double shifts with very little risk of them being caught, etc.
Think your rose-tinted specs have misted up again Carryfast.
Or in your obviously pro EU regs rose tinted view no one has ever fiddled tachos by just creating a false record in any number of numerous different ways.As for log books the only ‘creative’ accounts I remember was booking extra breaks as driving and the guvnor couldn’t argue about it.In addition to which,as I said,it would be no problem to amend domestic regs to provide a much better daily and weekly rest provision than that which the EU stasi enforces.As for log books as I’ve said anyone who wants to fiddle a log book in a big way isn’t going to be deterred by fiddling tachos either.
I don’t dispute that tachographs can be fiddled; any regulatory system once imposed invites attempts to circuit it by the unscrupulous and greedy. I don’t dispute either that the system as it currently stands is a long way from being ideal. The WTD in particular is an intrusive and unnecessary complication, which offers little real benefit. However, if you seriously think that quitting the EU will automatically abolish anything which is regarded by both the government and the public as a necessary part of road safety, you’re sadly mistaken.