Alcpone:
Wont get anywhere unfortunatly, but good luck to them.
Agreed!
French protest and more importantly STICK TOGETHER AS 1 and get what they want. With england whislt we’re out “protesting” some [zb] around the corner will do YOUR days works and pocket some of your money!
Good luck to anyone who is doing it though.
Nail on the head,unfortunately APATHY RULES UK. $1-05 here which equates to approximately 65p though I stand to be corrected.but couldn’t care less as I drive a 5.7 V8 and sell fuel for a meagre living Inboard V8 on my boat absolutely drinks the stuff
As I’ve said on other threads its irrelevant what fuel costs as. if the government cut duty all the customers will expect hauliers to cut the rate accordingly rates full stop need to rise to reflect the investment needed to run a haulage company.
Although speaking as a motorist fuel does need to come down I know people looking to change jobs just to cut down on there travel costs. To get anywhere any protest needs to be from a broad cross section of the public and the sun and daily hate mail.
Got this email from a Facebook ‘Causes’ list, bit much when the rozzers turn up and try to get their nose in.
To: Members in Keep Fuel Below £1.00 per litre (no subject) Due to Police harrassment and intimidation we have decided to postpone the Coryton blockade tommorrow until next Saturday 29th January Police have visitted the homes of event organisers unnanounced trying to intimidate Interviews with Radio 4 and other Radio stations are scheduled over next few days We will not be intimidated and will be mobilising support from students who are protesting next Saturday
I suppose any haulier getting involved could expect harassment from the vostapo as well. Really the nations favourite haulier needs to get involved and get the message across in there tv show.
kr79:
As I’ve said on other threads its irrelevant what fuel costs as. if the government cut duty all the customers will expect hauliers to cut the rate accordingly rates full stop need to rise to reflect the investment needed to run a haulage company…
If the idea that there’s a connection between rates and fuel taxation rates was correct (which it is’nt) the North American haulage industry would be paying it’s customers to haul their freight for them or at best doing the job for nothing,based on US fuel prices versus British ones.The fact is fuel cost increases can’t be passed on to the customer in total.Which is why if North America was ever stupid enough to tax road fuel at British rates most of their road transport industry would probably collapse probably followed by the rest of the economy soon after.
The issue of trying to recover all of the extra costs caused by road fuel taxation,by increasing rates to match,does’nt work because it’s more likely that the haulier will lose the customer than it is for the rate increase to be accepted and setting a rate to match investment is a totally different issue to setting suicidal road transport rates in which that mode of transport is being expected to act as a tax raising department (cash cow) for the government,while foreign trucks and air and rail transport are’nt.
Having said all that the government is more likely to be getting less tax revenue by increasing fuel taxation to a price which makes the stuff more expensive than it’s worth.In which case the more they tax it the less they’ll sell of it and the less tax they’ll get.In that context there’s no need to picket oil refineries because the stuff will just be sitting in the tanks anyway.The government are in a catch 22 situation of inflation versus recession.All we’ve got to do is sit back and watch them bring themselves down without any help from us.
I know there’s no relation of fuel duty to rates I was just saying if they cut the rate to cut the price we pay as the fuel companys price is reflected in the price per barrel so if that’s high the only quick fix would be for the government to cut there take
Carryfast:
Having said all that the government is more likely to be getting less tax revenue by increasing fuel taxation to a price which makes the stuff more expensive than it’s worth.In which case the more they tax it the less they’ll sell of it and the less tax they’ll get.In that context there’s no need to picket oil refineries because the stuff will just be sitting in the tanks anyway.The government are in a catch 22 situation of inflation versus recession.All we’ve got to do is sit back and watch them bring themselves down without any help from us.
It didn’t stop them and the rest of Europe from bringing in blanket smoking bans and virtually cutting one of their revenue streams overnight.
kr79:
I know there’s no relation of fuel duty to rates I was just saying if they cut the rate to cut the price we pay as the fuel companys price is reflected in the price per barrel so if that’s high the only quick fix would be for the government to cut there take
If I read it right I thought you were saying that if the government ‘did’ cut the price of road fuel then the customers would be asking for all of that reduction to be reflected in a rate cut to them .But considering that over 75% of the pump price of road fuel is made up of taxation then removing the duty altogether and just applying 5% VAT like domestic fuel rates would be far more than just a ‘quick fix’ to the economy in general and the growth created would be self financing in the context of increasing demand for road transport services and therefore road fuel and it’s that growth which is what’s needed in the economy not more price/tax increases and inflation.
Carryfast:
Having said all that the government is more likely to be getting less tax revenue by increasing fuel taxation to a price which makes the stuff more expensive than it’s worth.In which case the more they tax it the less they’ll sell of it and the less tax they’ll get.In that context there’s no need to picket oil refineries because the stuff will just be sitting in the tanks anyway.The government are in a catch 22 situation of inflation versus recession.All we’ve got to do is sit back and watch them bring themselves down without any help from us.
It didn’t stop them and the rest of Europe from bringing in blanket smoking bans and virtually cutting one of their revenue streams overnight.
Which just shows that whole economy is being driven by a load of pc environmental nutters who think that it’s better to scrap all the trucks and cars and to make everyone stand outside the pub in the rain instead of just enforcing the use of decent extractor fans and for us to have the choice of driving the car and sending freight by road,for the same fuel costs as rail and air travel,if we choose to.
The Saxmachine:
When does the government willingly take its own cut?
Everytime that we fill up road vehicles with fuel and the fact that 75% of that price is for the government seems like they’re taking a lot more than just a ‘cut’.
It was my fault realy for using the duty rather than the price we pay in the example but i gaurntee the companys would look to the haulier to cut rates if fuel come down.
I was looking at doing something new and enquired about maratimes great subbie deal last week with the fuel duty surcharge they are paying the grand total of £1.21 per mile for jobs over 100 mile and locals on a per job rate and you can expect about £2000 to £2100 per week plus vat. Now say if you are based in the south east you will be looking at needing a euro 4 truck from next year for jobs inside the m25 by the time you pay out everything and take a wage theres not a lot left so whats the point in been an owner driver unless the rates rise dramaticly.
Fuel duty is to high but i suppouse if we followed the usa route of low taxation in general we wouldnt have the nhs or state benifets but thats another debate totaly.
My personal favourite would be no income tax but there would be a blanket purchase tax on everything so the more you have the more you spend and the more you contribute but that seems far to simple for the great and the good in westminster.
kr79:
It was my fault realy for using the duty rather than the price we pay in the example but i gaurntee the companys would look to the haulier to cut rates if fuel come down.
I was looking at doing something new and enquired about maratimes great subbie deal last week with the fuel duty surcharge they are paying the grand total of £1.21 per mile for jobs over 100 mile and locals on a per job rate and you can expect about £2000 to £2100 per week plus vat. Now say if you are based in the south east you will be looking at needing a euro 4 truck from next year for jobs inside the m25 by the time you pay out everything and take a wage theres not a lot left so whats the point in been an owner driver unless the rates rise dramaticly.
Fuel duty is to high but i suppouse if we followed the usa route of low taxation in general we wouldnt have the nhs or state benifets but thats another debate totaly.
My personal favourite would be no income tax but there would be a blanket purchase tax on everything so the more you have the more you spend and the more you contribute but that seems far to simple for the great and the good in westminster.
Not heard anything here about euro 4 being required inside the M25 but a lot of people confuse the Greater London loony zone with being everywhere within the M25 .
That idea,of replacing income tax with even more indirect taxation,would just bring the economy to it’s knees even faster than they’re doing now with using VAT and road fuel taxation to keep the high rate of income tax relately lower than it needs to be.At best it just causes even more inflation in the economy so the money you earn will be worth even less which just means that lower income tax rate then is’nt worth anything either.Or at worst it causes recession and stagnation in the economy because it’s cheaper to bank the money than to spend it.
But taxation is’nt the issue concerning the funding of our public services like the NHS.The problem is that price and tax led inflation,caused by our trade deficit and loss of our industrial power,is outrunning the rate of growth in the economy and in that context trying to pay for the NHS,with money that is’nt worth anything,is no different to the situation of trying to pay for private health care with mickey mouse money.
All the above applies in the context of asking for that ‘dramatic rate rise’ to fund the government’s suicidal taxation policies of inflationary indirect taxation of road fuel.The fact is we’re getting very close to the point where the indirect taxation applied to road transport will make the industry generally insolvent (in other words the level of pricing which the industry’s market can withstand is’nt enough to cover all of the overheads and taxation which the industry is subject to.In which case there’s not much point in trying to transfer even more of the country’s tax burden,into the economy at the point of spending,instead of at point of income,because at the end of the day the firm has gone into liquidation and everyone’s out of a job anyway.
having had this conversation with many people over the last few years, we in this so called great country have very little balls. we all shout a good fight, but very few actually live up to it.
For argument sake, if we lived in France, and felt the price was unfair, we’d simply block the ports, and cut the Country and most of Europe off. So why don’t we do this, Surely with the amount of importing and exporting this country does, it would have a similar affect? And then the leeches in Westminster would surely have to rethink it’s policies?
TonyCBR:
… if we lived in France, and felt the price was unfair, we’d simply block the ports, and cut the Country and most of Europe off…
Not sure if you mean French truckers but let’s not start down the road of the French Lorry drivers stick together and get things done myth, because that’s what it is these days. French truckers haven’t done any meaningful protests for about 10 years now, the last couple of times they tried anything such as blockades or Convoi Escargot they were threatened with loss of their licences and the police broke up their action very quickly. They pretty much gave up protesting after that. The only people who block ports in France these days are the fishermen, and they do it on the wet side of the port.
Inboard V8 on my boat absolutely drinks the stuff 
.But considering that over 75% of the pump price of road fuel is made up of taxation then removing the duty altogether and just applying 5% VAT like domestic fuel rates would be far more than just a ‘quick fix’ to the economy in general and the growth created would be self financing in the context of increasing demand for road transport services and therefore road fuel and it’s that growth which is what’s needed in the economy not more price/tax increases and inflation.
