cav551:
An interesting article. Perhaps more worrying is an EBS failure of the rear modulating valve on vehicles not fitted with a redundancy valve. In some examples there is no pneumatic trigger to operate the rear brakes at all. This has been the subject of some discussion on here in the past.
Realistically in the case of 4 and 8 wheelers at least you can’t afford any considerable loss of braking force on any axle whether through loss of air or ABS failure.On that note,assuming the article’s comments also cover the vehicle/braking type in question ABS/EBS ?,the definition of ‘some brakes’ in the article could be key in this case.
weeto:
The harshest punishment handed out relating to the Sowerby Bridge incident was the managing director and transport manager getting a ban from holding an operators licence, the company received a £5000 fine and the CPS dropped a case of manslaughter!
The driver was cleared of any blame.
A charge of corporate manslaughter didn’t exist back then.
And the company restarted later with the same gaffer I believe. Reading the link I posted earlier there was an alleged cover up, maybe there was and maybe there wasn’t?
weeto:
The harshest punishment handed out relating to the Sowerby Bridge incident was the managing director and transport manager getting a ban from holding an operators licence, the company received a £5000 fine and the CPS dropped a case of manslaughter!
The driver was cleared of any blame.
A charge of corporate manslaughter didn’t exist back then.
And the company restarted later with the same gaffer I believe. Reading the link I posted earlier there was an alleged cover up, maybe there was and maybe there wasn’t?
Pete.
They always seem to bounce back Pete. That’s the problem. Same name under a different O Licence company …'Trading as etc…etc
A couple of remarks:
A failing ABS system doesn’t stop the brakes from operating.
A failing EBS would have more to do with this, but in general, if any of these system fail, the brake system goes in "full " pressure mode when operating the brakes.
If the brakes are drum brakes, than they have no warning for worn brake linings.
Only disc brakes have this type of warning, on the other side disc brakes wear doesn’t cause long travel of the actuators, drum brakes do.
Long actuator travel, cause excessive air pressure use.
So if the brakes lining was worn or the automatic adjuster are correct set up, a few uses of the brakes could use enough air to activate the spring brake chambers.
On most 8 wheelers they work on 2 axles, meaning the vehicle is at that point only relying on max 50% of its brakes ( in real world figures possible only 1/4)
These are quickly cooked, as they won’t release until the compressor generated enough air again.
For an inexperienced driver is it very difficult to recognise poor brakes, and he wouldn’t have enough experience to preserve its brakes enough too make a safe decent.
I guess the outcome will be a sum of factors leading up to this accident: experience, probably bad maintenance, condition of brakes, load, speed, and panic.
I hope for the driver he can live with the knowledge that he killed 4 people, regardless if there is any blame to his actions.
I hope that the families of all the people can find peace in the outcome of the investigations, and the decision of the courts.
caledoniandream:
A couple of remarks:
A failing ABS system doesn’t stop the brakes from operating.
A failing EBS would have more to do with this, but in general, if any of these system fail, the brake system goes in "full " pressure mode when operating the brakes.
If the brakes are drum brakes, than they have no warning for worn brake linings.
Only disc brakes have this type of warning, on the other side disc brakes wear doesn’t cause long travel of the actuators, drum brakes do.
Long actuator travel, cause excessive air pressure use.
So if the brakes lining was worn or the automatic adjuster are correct set up, a few uses of the brakes could use enough air to activate the spring brake chambers.
On most 8 wheelers they work on 2 axles, meaning the vehicle is at that point only relying on max 50% of its brakes ( in real world figures possible only 1/4)
These are quickly cooked, as they won’t release until the compressor generated enough air again.
For an inexperienced driver is it very difficult to recognise poor brakes, and he wouldn’t have enough experience to preserve its brakes enough too make a safe decent.
I guess the outcome will be a sum of factors leading up to this accident: experience, probably bad maintenance, condition of brakes, load, speed, and panic.
I hope for the driver he can live with the knowledge that he killed 4 people, regardless if there is any blame to his actions.
I hope that the families of all the people can find peace in the outcome of the investigations, and the decision of the courts.
Firstly any driver should be trained from day 1 to control approach speeds and maximise engine braking to minimise brake temperatures.IE that’s not an experience issue that’s a driver training one.
The issue of brake faults obviously trump the question of bad driving because at that point if found and confirmed there’s no way of proving the latter beyond doubt.The prosecution case seeming to contradict itself in this case in that regard in trying to go for both.
As for ABS v EBS failing safe the general controls related to both seem to be similar in terms of pressure regulation and control technology and I’d suggest is a crucial question that needs answering beyond doubt.
While in all cases any ‘fail safe’ system that leaves a truck without sufficient brakes to the point of cooking some while leaving others unserviceable isn’t really fail safe at all.
I’m sure the gaffer drained the air tanks every Friday night as a precaution against freezing up. That’s why when the driver started on Monday morning he had to wait for the air to build up.
Wildy:
I’m sure the gaffer drained the air tanks every Friday night as a precaution against freezing up. That’s why when the driver started on Monday morning he had to wait for the air to build up.
And how many times do ya’t see that these days… drain the air tanks?..
I think the Sowerby Bridge crash was one of a number of incidents that pushed the Government to bring the Corporate Manslaughter legislation into law. The thing with the S/B crash was that there was an overwhelming amount of damning evidence against Fewston Transport and that the punishment was deemed unduly lenient.
A few things I can remember about the case and subsequent investigation, I’ve tried to find info on Google but the info is pretty poor.
Tony Eyers: - Owner & Managing Director of Fewston Transport, previous history of illegal operating ? Anybody remember Wharfedale Traction ? Blinged up 142’s, 143’s all flash, no cash and 24/7 running.
Eric Preston:- TM & Director of Fewston Transport, don’t know much about him apart from at Calderdale Mag’s; both him & Eyers also tried to put blame on the toes of the workshop manager! The Mag’s preferred to believe the evidence of the W/M who was able to produce invoices to show that half of the kit needed to bring the vehicle up to standard had already been purchased the previous day and the vehicle was off the road waiting to be fixed. According to E.Preston he had been instructed by Eyers that because of cash flow problems and cost cutting only part of the kit could be purchased at that time. The following day T. Eyer’s instructed E. Preston to send the vehicle out to load, the W/M tried to prevent this from happening, knowing that it was unsafe, but was intimidated and overwhelmed by Eyer’s and Preston, consequently the fatal journey started around 9am.
W/M:- Now this is where things seem a bit weird because I can’t find any reference to this person on Google or anything related to the evidence that I’ve just written about anywhere on the net?
Sadly the ex W/M took his own life some years after the crash because he apparently couldn’t cope with the guilt he felt about this happening.
I’ve lived in Sowerby Bridge for 27years now and this crash is seared into my brain, it was one the most horrendous sights I’ve ever seen.
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned this 'ere new training thing where it’s brakes to slow, gears to go rubbish. Could that have been how the driver was trained ?
peterm:
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned this 'ere new training thing where it’s brakes to slow, gears to go rubbish. Could that have been how the driver was trained ?
Years ago I knew a driver who often let the vehicle ‘have its head’ going downhill safe in the knowledge that he had another set of fresh brakes (secondary system!) if the main set faded! He couldn’t grasp the fact that he only had one set of linings, he has long since passed away now but not through a road accident.
windrush:
Years ago I knew a driver who often let the vehicle ‘have its head’ going downhill safe in the knowledge that he had another set of fresh brakes (secondary system!) if the main set faded! He couldn’t grasp the fact that he only had one set of linings,
Blimey I can remember a similar ‘discussion’ which went along the lines you’ve only got one set of brakes just with different ways of applying them. While now to add insult to injury it looks like not only won’t spring brakes apply enough of them if the air runs out but ABS/EBS might possibly try to stop you applying what brakes you’ve got if it doesn’t feel like it.
The lorry in question was a P cab Scania probably fitted with drum brakes, these are not the keenest to start with so if they are poorly adjusted or have worn drums they can quite easily go over the cam resulting in no functioning brakes on that set of wheels either with the service brakes or handbrake.
After driving these Scania 8 wheelers regularly I can’t say I’m surprised tbh, it’s quite easy to get the brakes to hot
For a modern truck the brakes are outdated and the exhaust braking is next to useless, Scania don’t fit any engine brakes as far as I’m aware though they do do a very good retarder on the gearboxes, though most tipper operators don’t spec it on 8 wheelers due to cost and weight
The ABS not working will not have contributed to this at all, if the brakes were incapable of slowing the lorry, they were hardly likely to lock the wheels and trigger the ABS!
Worn linings/drums ir defective slack adjusters will cause excessive brake stroke, a brake chamber has a working stroke length, once travel exceeds this stroke, maximum brake application is reduced significantly. Brake fade has the same effect, the drums get hot and expand, taking them further away from the shoes, if this takes the brake stroke beyond its maximum, you have little or no brakes.
It’s a simple thing to measure and takes less than 5minutes to check. Auto slack adjusters can also be brought up to their maximum adjustment by making six foot to the floor brake applications with full air pressure in the tanks, if you need to get the spanners out to adjust an auto slack adjuster, it needs taking off and throwing in a skip.
newmercman:
The ABS not working will not have contributed to this at all, if the brakes were incapable of slowing the lorry, they were hardly likely to lock the wheels and trigger the ABS!
Worn linings/drums ir defective slack adjusters will cause excessive brake stroke, a brake chamber has a working stroke length, once travel exceeds this stroke, maximum brake application is reduced significantly. Brake fade has the same effect, the drums get hot and expand, taking them further away from the shoes, if this takes the brake stroke beyond its maximum, you have little or no brakes.
In this case the prosecution seem to be suggesting a combination of at least the latter two.As for the foibles of ABS/EBS we already know that EBS has been flagged up as being able to default by design to having ‘some’ brakes from having brakes in the event of a technical issue with foot brake valve switching so who knows in that regard.
The ABS/EBS issues just add weight to the prosecution case, brake fade or mechanical failure could be defended as unfortunate incidents, but ABS/EBS faults show up with warning lights and any prosecutor will be all over those lights being ignored, not only by the owner, but the driver too. That they had little effect on the cause of the crash is irrelevant, it proves that the company and driver were negligent in their duties.
The driver may well have been naive and under pressure, he may have been told it wasn’t serious and to ■■■■ it up buttercup etc, he may have been under the impression that all was well, but ignorance of the law is not a defence.
The company was negligent in its maintenance and the driver chose to drive a vehicle with defective brakes, there’s no defence for either.
newmercman:
The ABS/EBS issues just add weight to the prosecution case, brake fade or mechanical failure could be defended as unfortunate incidents, but ABS/EBS faults show up with warning lights and any prosecutor will be all over those lights being ignored, not only by the owner, but the driver too. That they had little effect on the cause of the crash is irrelevant, it proves that the company and driver were negligent in their duties.
The driver may well have been naive and under pressure, he may have been told it wasn’t serious and to ■■■■ it up buttercup etc, he may have been under the impression that all was well, but ignorance of the law is not a defence.
The company was negligent in its maintenance and the driver chose to drive a vehicle with defective brakes, there’s no defence for either.
Which leaves the question of a dangerous driving charge based on vehicle condition ‘if’ that condition isn’t something that can easily be established during the driver’s ‘daily walk around check’ as opposed to the person responsible for the vehicle’s maintenance within workshop facilities and the O licence holder’s management of that.Or in the case of ABS if a driver isn’t aware that it’s a fault which could potentially result in loss of brakes.IE not ignorance of the law but possibly understandable ignorance of the defect/s and/or implications of the defect/s.IE is it possible for a driver to diagnose all the faults supposedly found and are drivers made sufficiently aware that an ABS warning possibly means brake failure.If not maybe save this driver from the wolves.While at the same time making all drivers aware that any future over looking of ABS warnings will mean a dangerous driving conviction.
On that note,depending on the nature of the warning,maybe this would help in his defence in that even the DVSA,at present,obviously don’t regard an ABS warning as an emergency brake failure issue and advise continuation of a journey.Probably because of the implications of admitting that ABS possibly has the potential to not fail safe.Not to mention pressure from the FTA who maybe should at least arguably bear some of the responsibility for the driver’s complacency and/or any pressure put on him to drive the vehicle in that case.While how can a court convict a driver of dangerous driving on the grounds of an ABS warning when the DVSA say that it’s safe to continue a journey with one showing.
If only two out of eight brakes were working properly then you’d need to be a special kind of stupid to be unaware of the possibility that things could go horribly wrong if you had to stop quickly.
It would be like driving an artic without the service line hooked up, even moving around the yard slowly you have severely reduced stopping power and wouldn’t dream of going out on the road like that. This kid did and now he’ll have to pay the price.
newmercman:
If only two out of eight brakes were working properly then you’d need to be a special kind of stupid to be unaware of the possibility that things could go horribly wrong if you had to stop quickly.
It would be like driving an artic without the service line hooked up, even moving around the yard slowly you have severely reduced stopping power and wouldn’t dream of going out on the road like that. This kid did and now he’ll have to pay the price.
I’d agree with that.‘If’ the thing really was in that state when he left the yard and the prosecution can show two burnt out brakes and 6 cold ones which were doing zb all. As opposed to the ABS shutting down whatever amount resulting in whatever amount of other cooked brakes,resulting in the loss of ability to measure the amount of slack and distance between drums and linings on the cooked whatever amount was left trying to stop the truck with any certainty.On that note it seems strange as to why we’ve got no evidence provided as to the state of the linings and drums of each seperate brake.IE cold under used or cooked over used with the most used/working ones obviously being the most difficult to ascertain as to their pre accident status because their linings and drums have been effectively cooked and worn away beyond being able to actually measure that.
Other than measuring brake stroke and lining/drum thickness, there isn’t much you can do to determine if brakes are going to be effective and I imagine that’s the case here.
Air pressure loss will have the spring brakes kicking in, but that will have little effect on out of adjustment brakes as the spring application mirrors that of the pedal being pushed into the carpet.
So I assume that the investigation found that the brakes were out of adjustment, not through fade, but through inadequate preventative maintenance and the key word there is preventative.
He couldn’t grasp the fact that he only had one set of linings, he has long since passed away now but not through a road accident.
While now to add insult to injury it looks like not only won’t spring brakes apply enough of them if the air runs out but ABS/EBS might possibly try to stop you applying what brakes you’ve got if it doesn’t feel like it. 