Foreign Workers [Merged]

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

for me a few things mean they find work - 1 is they will have a try at most things (UK especially younger workers have this sense of oh I am unqualified but cant you do x,y,z) 2 -unemployment is too soft an option you see generations of family on the dole and they know the system inside out can afford to smoke / drink / get ■■■■ tattoos 3 - the stupid new rule regarding employing younger people cant work past x cant work longer than y need more breaks than z its stupid and works against younger people.

but all in all the fact they will see working a Sunday/nights/rotations/long hours as a positive most others see it as a huge negative, this flexibility alone I think is one of the main reasons why they find jobs ahead of UK.

42

war1974:
for me a few things mean they find work - 1 is they will have a try at most things (UK especially younger workers have this sense of oh I am unqualified but cant you do x,y,z) 2 -unemployment is too soft an option you see generations of family on the dole and they know the system inside out can afford to smoke / drink / get [zb] tattoos 3 - the stupid new rule regarding employing younger people cant work past x cant work longer than y need more breaks than z its stupid and works against younger people.

but all in all the fact they will see working a Sunday/nights/rotations/long hours as a positive most others see it as a huge negative, this flexibility alone I think is one of the main reasons why they find jobs ahead of UK.

While the reason why employers like that idea is because they can make less workers do more work covering more hours for less wages.Than employing more workers working less hours for more wages.In which case how does the former actually do anything to create a decent civilised living standard and society,grow the economy and contribute to the tax requirement.Which is why Eastern Europe is such a backward hole which the mugs there then walk away from and bring the same ethic that they are running from with them over here thereby turning us into the same. :unamused:

On that note if employers want 24/7 operation then pay the workforce a decent wage and apply decent rotas like 3 shifts of 8 hours and/or 4 days on 4 off shift patterns.

While as I said if you don’t want Brits to turn their backs on their own country as a lost cause then you need to stop labelling them with the workshy benefit scrounger stereotype and either exporting their jobs to foreign countries or importing foreign labour to take their jobs here.Assuming that situation doesn’t change then don’t be surprised when many of them live up to the description on the basis of what’s to lose.

43

Carryfast:

war1974:
for me a few things mean they find work - 1 is they will have a try at most things (UK especially younger workers have this sense of oh I am unqualified but cant you do x,y,z) 2 -unemployment is too soft an option you see generations of family on the dole and they know the system inside out can afford to smoke / drink / get [zb] tattoos 3 - the stupid new rule regarding employing younger people cant work past x cant work longer than y need more breaks than z its stupid and works against younger people.

but all in all the fact they will see working a Sunday/nights/rotations/long hours as a positive most others see it as a huge negative, this flexibility alone I think is one of the main reasons why they find jobs ahead of UK.

While the reason why employers like that idea is because they can make less workers do more work covering more hours for less wages.Than employing more workers working less hours for more wages.In which case how does the former actually do anything to create a decent civilised living standard and society,grow the economy and contribute to the tax requirement.Which is why Eastern Europe is such a backward hole which the mugs there then walk away from and bring the same ethic that they are running from with them over here thereby turning us into the same :unamused: .

While as I said if you don’t want Brits to turn their backs on their own country as a lost cause then you need to stop labelling them with the workshy benefit scrounger stereotype and either exporting their jobs to foreign countries or importing foreign labour to take their jobs here.Assuming that situation doesn’t change then don’t be surprised when many of them live up to the description on the basis of what’s to lose.

carryfast - I really cant be arsed to go into another 10 page discussion with you but you are wrong - I work in recruitment and have done on and off for a number of years, I have had people from all nationalities come in and work for me, the worst offenders for I need work then they do a day or 2 and quit are the british, all my guys are paid the same rates so no race to the bottom in that respect, even with the new £7.20 wage we still get people who ARE better off on the dole!
now if that better off is the fact they don’t have to get out of bed at 6am and earn a crust then that’s up to them I guess and is the systems fault.
yes we will have companies who pay a EE driver £7.20 rather than a £10 uk driver but this is drivers only I am on about the whole workforce - we have young kids come in wanting to be FLT drivers etc. do they want to work from a general op up? do they hell, they think we should pay for them to get a FLT licence or whatever they need, not so long ago people would literally be happy top start wandering about a warehouse picking up rubbish to earn then progress.

obviously not ever UK worker is lazy but out of the 3million unemployed I reckon at least 25% are long term unemployed and I know this may be for a huge amount of reasons, but the fact is we have a load of families with 3 generation of never worked just watch benefits street and the likes.

I agree shorter weeks for more money would be good but no one wants to pay an extra 25% to cover this we all want the best for the cheapest. you cant blame the EE for this.

44

Are there really so few Brits who’d go for a job “knowing that it will put them on benefits”? :question:

45

There are thousands of jobs out there, it’s just that most people don’t want them. Sadly it seems a lot of people in this country think they’re too good to be a cleaner/shop worker/hotel staff/care home orderly/factory or farm labourer (“I’ll get paid more being on the dole”) - or any of the other hundreds of roles that the Eastern European workers were glad to take on.

46

khdgsa:
There are thousands of jobs out there, it’s just that most people don’t want them. Sadly it seems a lot of people in this country think they’re too good to be a cleaner/shop worker/hotel staff/care home orderly/factory or farm labourer (“I’ll get paid more being on the dole”) - or any of the other hundreds of roles that the Eastern European workers were glad to take on.

If they are really saying that they get more ‘on the dole’ then that would obviously say everything about the wage levels being offered.However bearing in mind the conditions for claiming the dole those conditions don’t exactly allow the dole being a free choice.

While if the East Euros are only doing the jobs Brits don’t want then they obviously won’t mind a condition of the job has to remain advertised and given to any interested indigenous worker.Nor would we need to be in the situation of a Brit driver having to compete for work with East Euros assuming all the East Euros are happy to take on all those supposedly ‘thousands of cleaning etc jobs’.

While does anyone really want their disabled/sick parents to be looked after by low paid people of an alien ethnic culture who aren’t cut out for the job.As opposed to those of their own culture who want to do the job from day 1 as a vocation.In which case the real question is why are so many of those more likely to be found in an Australian or Canadian care home not a British one. :unamused:

47

Carryfast it does happen and yes people do think they are better off on the dole, not everyone but a whole heap.

and if they are not better off its easier to get dole free rent council tax etc. than earn £200 -£300 a week and pay it.

48

Well just say it was the opposite and you were working here as as a truck driver for £25,000 a year but someone said they could get you a job in Poland cleaning toilets for £50,000 a year of course many of us would jump at that chance and when you got there you would keep your head down and get on with your work not causing any problems as you think the money is brilliant for what you are doing !!

and at the same time you are annoying the Poles as they know that rate in their country for cleaning toilets is…well cr*p !! :laughing:

49

Entry level pay is far to low.There should be a big incentive to start any sort of career.As it is after paying for work clothes andbus fares some folk are just as well off claiming benefits I.E. being a carer for their parents etc.

50

khdgsa:
There are thousands of jobs out there, it’s just that most people don’t want them. Sadly it seems a lot of people in this country think they’re too good to be a cleaner/shop worker/hotel staff/care home orderly/factory or farm labourer (“I’ll get paid more being on the dole”) - or any of the other hundreds of roles that the Eastern European workers were glad to take on.

The issue with a lot of jobs, supermarket etc. is they’re not full time. 20 - 25 hrs pw. Yes they’re jobs but not sustainable jobs without benefit topup. Govt subsidy in other words.

Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk

51

volvo2:

Carryfast:

Dolph:
From foreign workers to British won alone WW2, that was quick escalation CF even for you :grimacing:

As for WW2 feel free to explain what stood between Hitler and the civilised world in the form of air power in late Summer of 1940.

Carryfast I think you need to read up on the history of WW2 The red army was the real reason the nazis were defeated. The red army marched and fought to reach and take Berlin No other country would have managed that. The british army didnt land on french soil and march to Berlin. The soviets suffered more losses than any other country. Love 'em or hate 'em the valiant red army were the only ones who set Berlin as the target and when they took Berlin that was the beginning of the end. They deserve respect for that and I for one salute them for what they did.

The British gave time, the Americans gave money, the Russians gave blood

52

war1974:
Carryfast it does happen and yes people do think they are better off on the dole, not everyone but a whole heap.

and if they are not better off its easier to get dole free rent council tax etc. than earn £200 -£300 a week and pay it.

You’ve conveniently missed the point ‘relatively’ better off on the dole if at all.Because wage levels are at similar but even relatively lower subsistence levels as you’ve said yourself there.The reason for that is the over supplied labour market and resulting low wage economic environment.Which importing economic migrants,from the even lower wage culture of basket case East European economies,adds to even more.On that note why should tax payers be lumbered with the bill for in work benefits to subsidise the profit margins of low wage employment.

While the dole isn’t a life style choice.It has very onerous rules and conditions attached to any claim let alone the continuation of a claim long term. :unamused:

53

Euro:
The British gave time, the Americans gave money, the Russians gave blood

No the Russians being Socialist mugs allied themselves with their Socialist ■■■■ mates.Which is probably just as well bearing in mind the state of Russian defence technology v German at the time.While the Brits got on with making Spitfires to defend their Island fortress.Bearing in mind that the Allison powered P40 was never going to win the Battle of Britain for the RAF.So yes as usual second to none British workers let down by British bankers while the Americans had all the money but no idea.

Thereby allowing the Western Front,especially after America came to its senses,which diverted enough German forces and resources to tip the balance in Stalin’s favour.When the Socialist zb wits finally realised that Socialists are as good at arguing and fighting among themselves as they are with everyone else.That together with having Russia’s geography and climate on his side. :unamused:

54

Could someone send me translations of what carryfast is posting as I cannot make head nor tail of it

55

volvo2:
Could someone send me translations of what carryfast is posting as I cannot make head nor tail of it

Which bit would that be.Surviving on minimum wage or the dole in the South East ?.

Or the facts related to the geopolitical environment of 1940 ?. :wink:

56

raymundo:
Norway is not a member of the EU but even they have an open border directive imposed on them by Brussels and they have a higher percentage of immigrants than the UK. In or out this country is buggered for eternity while the EU exists in it’s present form. From the Treaty of Rome to total ■■■■■■■■■■ by unelected dictators in half a lifetime :cry:

What is this “Brussels” that somehow manages to impose everything on the world? Do people really think that grey bureaucrats have managed what Hitler couldn’t?

Has it ever occurred to people that centre-right national governments across Europe, in hock to business interests (i.e. the interests of private profit), are actually in favour of freedom of movement?

In other words, our Tory government (for all its whining) is actually pro-lower-wages? And so are all the other EU centre-right governments?

It’s like that ■■■■■■ IDS, he’s spent the better half of the past decade tipping the disabled out of their wheelchairs, and forcing the poor into the arms of private landlords (with higher rents and insecure tenancies), and now he cries crocodile tears (quite literally in the case of that interview he gave a while back where he broke down).

57

peterm:
I agree to a certain extent. If the English (British) were to get off their arses and take the menial / unsociable hours work and work like some of the east Europeans, things would be better for them.

Better in what sense? Of earning crap pay, and not even being able to live your waking life in the daylight anymore?

People refuse these jobs because they are basically unhealthy, physically and mentally, and an unacceptable way to live out your life.

Many management jobs are the same today - stressful, insecure, doomed to eventually fail - but the cost of motivating a Brit to put up with this backwardness is far higher than for a migrant from a low productivity country.

How many times have you heard Brit’s whinging and saying things like ‘I wouldn’t get of bed for that’ or ‘You wouldn’t see me doing that job’ etc. I’ve done some right old jobs in my time, cos I ain’t too proud to sweep up / clean toilets etc. I’ve done these things to tide me over, especially since I lost my truck licence for health (work accident) reasons. I know people joke about it, but there are plenty who really do look down on other people because of the job they do. If it puts bread on the table and pays the rent, just do it. Something better comes along sooner or later.

There is no economic iron law that something better always comes along. If street prostitutes eventually find something better, it is not because there is somewhere on the street which is actually quite nice, it is predominantly because most people refuse to be prostitutes and refuse to live their lives in that way (even briefly), and therefore an alternative economy (maintained by the demands of the majority for decent work) remains for street prostitutes to return to - if they haven’t already become so sick and degenerate (physically, mentally, and morally) from street life.

This had already started well before we left England in 1974 with West Indians, Indians and Pakistanis doing jobs such as bus driving and conducting because whites didn’t want the hours. Now it’s spread to Europe because of the open door policy and the employers are taking full advantage of the Brits shooting themselves in the foot.

It is not British workers shooting themselves in the foot, it is British bosses shooting them in the foot whilst shouting “dance, dance”!

58

war1974:
carryfast - I really cant be arsed to go into another 10 page discussion with you but you are wrong - I work in recruitment and have done on and off for a number of years, I have had people from all nationalities come in and work for me, the worst offenders for I need work then they do a day or 2 and quit are the british, all my guys are paid the same rates so no race to the bottom in that respect, even with the new £7.20 wage we still get people who ARE better off on the dole!

No one will have accused you of paying two different rates. The issue is the effect of immigration from low productivity economies on the single, going, rate here.

now if that better off is the fact they don’t have to get out of bed at 6am and earn a crust then that’s up to them I guess and is the systems fault.
yes we will have companies who pay a EE driver £7.20 rather than a £10 uk driver but this is drivers only I am on about the whole workforce - we have young kids come in wanting to be FLT drivers etc. do they want to work from a general op up? do they hell, they think we should pay for them to get a FLT licence or whatever they need, not so long ago people would literally be happy top start wandering about a warehouse picking up rubbish to earn then progress.

I imagine there are two possible reasons why a person would want to be a FLT driver. One, the pay which is closer to a realistic living rate, and perhaps two, because they don’t like routine manual labour.

Bearing in mind the motivation of many workers then, on what calculation does it make sense to become a warehouse op?

You certainly don’t escape poverty pay by working eagerly for poverty pay (unless an employer contractually guarantees job security and progression into the well-paid role). And if you are trying to avoid routine manual labour, it doesn’t make much sense either.

Nor would it make sense to take an unsuitable role to “prove” yourself, since all it is likely to prove is that you cannot be motivated by poverty pay, and that you are wholly unsuitable for the substitute role. It’s like asking a little skinny guy whose shy and easy to frighten, but good at paperwork and filing, to go down the mine and prove himself there, and then maybe you’ll give him a job in admin - the most likely outcome is that he’ll be a totally unsatisfactory worker underground, which says nothing about how he may have performed as a pen pusher.

obviously not ever UK worker is lazy but out of the 3million unemployed I reckon at least 25% are long term unemployed and I know this may be for a huge amount of reasons, but the fact is we have a load of families with 3 generation of never worked just watch benefits street and the likes.

I agree shorter weeks for more money would be good but no one wants to pay an extra 25% to cover this we all want the best for the cheapest. you cant blame the EE for this.

I agree, bosses are to blame, not immigrants, because bosses have got themselves into the unsavoury habit of wanting things that they simply aren’t willing to pay for. You make it sound so reasonable, but it’s little more than childishness - of pointing at everything in the shop, and then stamping your feet when the retailer asks for a price which you can’t even begin to afford.

59

Jesus, who started him off again?

60

If we go back to original post I think the op hit the nail on the head when he said highly qualified East Europeans taking menial jobs because it paid better than doing the job they’re qualified for in thier own country.
These are intelligent motivated people, we have our own intelligent motivated people who’d do the same if they could earn far more doing a menial job in another country, but they can earn a good wage in doing the job they’re qualified in this country.

I know plenty of British workers who do unsocial hours, who’ll turn up for work day in day out without trying skive off and who do a good job, but because of that they don’t have to apply for the lowest paid work, so employers who want to pay low wages are left with our lazy dross or motivated East Europeans.