A further Road Safety Act 2006 Regulation, introducing the much anticipated new police and VOSA powers (fixed penalties and roadside financial deposits)between January and April 2009, has been published - Statutory Instrument 2008/3164 Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No. 5) Order - 8th December 2008.
New power to graduate fixed penalty amounts according to type, degree of offence (i.e. varying amounts of £60, £120 or £200 to be introduced in Spring 2009).
Power to vary number of penalty points endorsed on driving licences according to type, location, severity of offence and location of offence.
New power for vehicle examiners (i.e. VOSA) to issue fixed penalty notices.
Requirement for goods and passenger operators to notify the Traffic Commissioner of certain fixed penalty notices ( in essence the ones under the new GFP scheme).
New system of driving licence endorsement - power to issue endorseable fixed penalties to non-GB driving licence holders through checks of their ‘driving record’.
Police and VOSA power to require financial deposit payment by drivers without satisfactory UK address (intended to enforce against foreign drivers who otherwise have been able to avoid fixed penalty/ prosecution in the UK).
Power for Police/VOSA to immobilise vehicles subject to a prohibition (again, primarily directed at foreign drivers).
Our current understanding of the scheduled commencement date for the introduction of graduated fixed penalties and financial roadside deposits is that it will now start on 1st May 2009.
Heres VOSA’s new powers to play with soon although i do like the sound of a couple of them! Its about time they started forcing foreign drivers to pay on the spot just like were expected on the continent.
In essence it looks good, however to say I am a bit concerned that a VOSA officer is going to have the power to issue fixed penalty notices would be an understatement, after all aren’t they just a mechanic at the end of the day, I can go along with the idea that if they find a fault that they believe deserves a fine, they should then get a police officer to issue the penalty if the police officer believes it is warranted.
I would guess if it hasn’t happened yet it will quite soon when we start getting points on our licences in Europe for offences committed over there, I would not be against that provided that the enforcement officers were educated properly in the laws affecting LGV vehicles, I have in the past been fined where I had not broken any rules but at least I didn’t get points, the circumstances were that I exceeded 4 1/2 hr driving due to a bad accident, I pulled over at the first opportunity and wrote on the back of the tacho giving details. I was stopped two days later and fined €60, but at least I didn’t get points, the future will be different.
As far as I understand it you will only get an on the spot fine if you have not got a tracable UK address. So for us who live here it will be the old system.
I’m sure you can challenge the fine in a court fi you feel it’s unjustified, but surely a VOSA mechanic has got a better knowledge of a mecahanical defect on a truck than your average Police Officer.
Hopefully it will give VOSA the incentive to come down hard on foreign operators who abuse the EU regs knowing that the UK will do very little about it if they get caught.
jimti:
In essence it looks good, however to say I am a bit concerned that a VOSA officer is going to have the power to issue fixed penalty notices would be an understatement, after all aren’t they just a mechanic at the end of the day, I can go along with the idea that if they find a fault that they believe deserves a fine, they should then get a police officer to issue the penalty if the police officer believes it is warranted.
I would guess if it hasn’t happened yet it will quite soon when we start getting points on our licences in Europe for offences committed over there, I would not be against that provided that the enforcement officers were educated properly in the laws affecting LGV vehicles, I have in the past been fined where I had not broken any rules but at least I didn’t get points, the circumstances were that I exceeded 4 1/2 hr driving due to a bad accident, I pulled over at the first opportunity and wrote on the back of the tacho giving details. I was stopped two days later and fined €60, but at least I didn’t get points, the future will be different.
Well as far as im aware there are the mechanics of VOSA and actual enforcement officers if you will. When ive been stopped the mechanic does all the checking of the vehicle then hands you over to the guy who deals with tachos etc. Alot of these guys are ex cops anyway so im sure there quite competent in issuing tickets even though we may not like it! Anyway every man and his dog can give tickets out for anything these days from councils for littering and smoking in public places to the good old pcso’s!
By introducing these latest regulations and penalties it appears that the British government is once again ignoring an ancient British statute - that of the Bill of Rights Act 1689, enacted and formally entered into Statute following the Declaration of Rights 1689.
The Bill states “That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void”.
This means that a conviction is necessary before a fine or forfeit can be imposed. The Bill of Rights is a “constitutional statue” and may not be repealed impliedly. As stated in the “Metric Martyrs” Judgment in the Divisional Court (18th February 2002) by Lord Justice Laws and Mr Justice Crane (I will paraphrase, but have included a copy of the judgment’s relevant sections 62 and 63):
62.“We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts of Parliament: as it were ‘ordinary’ statutes and ‘constitutional statutes.’ The special status of constitutional statutes follows the special status of constitutional rights. Examples are the … Bill of Rights 1689 … 63. Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional statutes may not…”
In other words ANY fine imposed by any law which is not handed down by a court is illegal - that would include those fines and forfeitures proposed under the new regulations, as well as many currently in place, such as parking penalties, smoking offences etc…
The Bill of Rights may also be relevant when a traffic commissioner wishes to suspend an individuals HGV licence for an alleged offence.
Hombre:
By introducing these latest regulations and penalties it appears that the British government is once again ignoring an ancient British statute - that of the Bill of Rights Act 1689, enacted and formally entered into Statute following the Declaration of Rights 1689.
The Bill states “That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void”.
This means that a conviction is necessary before a fine or forfeit can be imposed. The Bill of Rights is a “constitutional statue” and may not be repealed impliedly. As stated in the “Metric Martyrs” Judgment in the Divisional Court (18th February 2002) by Lord Justice Laws and Mr Justice Crane (I will paraphrase, but have included a copy of the judgment’s relevant sections 62 and 63):
62.“We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts of Parliament: as it were ‘ordinary’ statutes and ‘constitutional statutes.’ The special status of constitutional statutes follows the special status of constitutional rights. Examples are the … Bill of Rights 1689 … 63. Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional statutes may not…”
In other words ANY fine imposed by any law which is not handed down by a court is illegal - that would include those fines and forfeitures proposed under the new regulations, as well as many currently in place, such as parking penalties, smoking offences etc…
The Bill of Rights may also be relevant when a traffic commissioner wishes to suspend an individuals HGV licence for an alleged offence.
well as I understand it a fine is classed as a ‘conviction’. It is impossiible for a court to hand down fines such as speeding,not wearing a seatbelt etc as they are not there. That is why the police have the power to issue the fines. If you do not accept the fine then you can go to court to argue your case against it.
well thats it they have gone and done it ! The lunatics are running the Asylum,
this was there way of bring in more power to vosa, but saying it was to sort out the foreign drivers.
Once this comes into play it would be a good idea to insure your licence ! because every time you get stopped in a vosa check, any items found wrong with the vehicle will attract endorseable fixed penalties and fines.
Muckles is right. The ‘on the spot fine’ will only be applied to those that do not have a UK address, and the ‘fine’ will actually be a deposit - VOSA are not judge and jury. The payment will be held in lieu of a court ruling at a later date.
Sorry, but what happens when you get stopped for speeding or a road side check and you have bald tyres etc, even with a UK address, they can issue an on the spot endorseable fine which you can either accept or go to court, what they have now done is enable vosa to have the powers to issue endorseable offences to both UK and European foreign drivers.
Some of the foreign transport companies already have a uk address thru there Solicitors and in case of an accident or stopped by police/vosa they give them a card/letter with the details for the police/vosa to contact the solicitor, and this gets round the problem, plus the solicitors accept and deal with the offences on there behalf and off they go on there merry way without paying anything at that time.
However, you and I will not have that privilege, we will have to deal with the problem there and then or go to court.
JJSL:
Sorry, but what happens when you get stopped for speeding or a road side check and you have bald tyres etc,
Er, don’t speed or drive a vehicle with defects…?
If you break the law, you should be punished. Don’t break the law, we all live happily ever after.
If this scheme improves road safety and reduces the number of offences or dangerous vehicles on our road then I’m all for it.
If you disagree with VOSA, you elect to have your say in a court of law, in the same way as if some police officer issues a ticket you disagree with - I think you’ll find that burder of proof required to secure a conviction is no different whether it be on the evidence of a VOSA inspector or a police officer.
I find it amazing the number of posts on this site having a go at VOSA - they are trying to make our roads safer by removing those driving dangerous vehicles - more power to them.
Ski:
I find it amazing the number of posts on this site having a go at VOSA - they are trying to make our roads safer by removing those driving dangerous vehicles - more power to them.
I don’t think anyone is having a go at VOSA, we are just saying they have their job and and law enforcement officers have theirs, it’s like saying as a professional driver I should be able to issue a fixed penalty notice to someone who cuts me up, after all I know about safe driving like VOSA know about vehicle safety.
reading through the new law, it doesn’t differentiate between the VOSA lady who books me in at the test centre, the Vosa mechanic who checks the truck and the VOSA bloke who pulls me into a check point
I hear what you’re saying but enforcement is changing, to move road traffic offences and enforcement away from the Police.
Now I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but over a period of time the resources available to the Police ‘Service’ have been cut by Government after Government to the point whereby they cannot now effectively police our roads as well as carry out the other responsibilities they have for law enforcement.
The start was the HATO’s, and I beleive that over a period of time their powers will be extended. Now VOSA are to be given more enforcement powers and the ability to issue fixed penalty and on the spot notices to foreign nationals.
As long as the poeple involved are trained properly, the same way a police officer would be, and if the result is less bad driving/vehicles then, although I was initially sceptical, I actually think it is a good thing for all - unless you happen to be a law breaker…!
I find it amazing the number of posts on this site having a go at VOSA - they are trying to make our roads safer by removing those driving dangerous vehicles - more power to them.
Hi Ski,
we don’t break the law, we carry out maintenance on all our vehicles and check the drivers tacho’s, all our vehicles have a pre=mot prior to going in for the annual test and the vehicles have either gone thru Scania/Volvo workshops but we still have vehicles which fail, not many but some and this happens because you have a qualified mechanic Scania/Volvo trained for years and a Vosa trained fitter , whom gets sent away on a course for weeks ! and suddenly he knows more than the qualified machanic.
The system needs to be improved by Vosa and the vosa fitters need to know what is a serviceable item or not, however, the main area regarding Vosa is that they are self funding !!! and without the required mot failures and road side fines they would not have enough money to operate. plus why when vosa stop you for a check do they nearly always on the issue of a PG9 put full test against a vehicle instead of a partial retest !
Plus three weeks ago we have a vehicle stopped just outside Dover and the drive axle wing top had been damaged whilst on a trip to Italy this was the only defect and they issued a PG9 full test with 7 days grace, this vehicle had only been in for it’s annual test four weeks prior ? it’s one thing to drive a truck for someone, it’s another to operator a truck with drivers.
Whilst some of VOSA’s vehicle inspectors may be mechanics, a good many, probably the majority have little or no “real” mechanical knowledge, they simply attend a basic mechanical training course and learn to check off items against a list.
The big problem with VOSA is of course that it has to be self funding by issuing prohibitions and the like. This is a sure fire way to ensure that common sense is dipensed with as seen by a driver in Poole a week or two ago. He was issued with a GV9 at 19:17hrs to have it lifted at 19:18hrs on the same night because the ABS lead clip wasnt correctly fitted. Why didnt the inspector just point it out and request the driver to fit the clip properly instead?
Hombre:
Whilst some of VOSA’s vehicle inspectors may be mechanics, a good many, probably the majority have little or no “real” mechanical knowledge, they simply attend a basic mechanical training course and learn to check off items against a list.
The big problem with VOSA is of course that it has to be self funding by issuing prohibitions and the like. This is a sure fire way to ensure that common sense is dipensed with as seen by a driver in Poole a week or two ago. He was issued with a GV9 at 19:17hrs to have it lifted at 19:18hrs on the same night because the ABS lead clip wasnt correctly fitted. Why didnt the inspector just point it out and request the driver to fit the clip properly instead?
luckey that wasn’t next year and the driver was French, he would have got a £60 fine and 3 points, and then a week later Cherbourg would be facing a blockade
