I was parked up in rugby truck stop last night and there was about 10 Lithuanian wagons parked up I think the company was transvista or something like that. Anyway all the wagons where empty then a mini bus pulls up with all the drivers and all there tramping gear, will some of these just be based over here and maybe just came back to work from having the festive time off■■? Found it odd them having the wagons parked up empty then all the drivers turning up in a mini bus to start work !
Who knows these days? The trucks could belong to any company and the drivers could be any EU national!
The lines have become so blurred its hard to tell but the real reasons are usually some kind of payment avoidance at any level!
Call me cynical… 
They were Romanians taking the lithuanian drivers jobs whilst they had their backs turned.
NO NO NO wrong again Limey It was the Bulgarians taking the work the Romanians could not do when they took it from the Lithuanians, who had gone home for their weekly rest.
NO NO NO wrong again Limey It was the Bulgarians taking the work the Romanians could not do when they took it from the Lithuanians, who had gone home for their weekly rest.
that’s how it’s done - the drivers who are working in western EU only go home and come back every 6-10 weeks in a bunch with a minivan. I’ve even seen a fullsize coach with 40+ bulgarians coming to work and 40+going home, it was a on service area near hannover.
Many Eastern European trucks seldom go home, but the drivers do and many of them work on a rotational basis so that they do so many weeks or months away, then get replaced with another guy in situ, either by minibus or cheap flight etc so that the whole truck doesn’t have to return to Lithuania, Romania or wherever. Many of these companies are now well established at operating solely within Western Europe and as soon as cabotage is totally abolished (when is this?) they will be able to have fleets based in certain countries doing unlimited amounts of internal work, with their own trucks, bussing in drivers from their own country, at their own rates of pay and putting them up against a domestic British, German, French etc truck that can never, ever hope to compete or come remotely close to doing so. The wage difference alone will finish off domestic transport, just as it has on international work where they’ve had unlimited access for at least a decade now.
When this does happen, those consultancy companies who specialise in “flagging out” UK trucks to BG etc plates will be doing a brisk business and the British truck driver will go the same was as the British miner, ship builder or seaman. The only difference will be that his truck will quite likely still be on the road, only on Bulgarian plates and driven by a Bulgarian driver who does 4 month stints in the UK for a British company and lives in portacabin accommodation at the end of the yard. Any British company will be able to have a postal address in BG or RO and employ drivers from that country, on employment contracts from that country to drive a right hand drive, British owned, RO or BG registered truck on domestic British work. Welcome to the European Union.
robinhood_1984:
Many Eastern European trucks seldom go home, but the drivers do and many of them work on a rotational basis so that they do so many weeks or months away, then get replaced with another guy in situ, either by minibus or cheap flight etc so that the whole truck doesn’t have to return to Lithuania, Romania or wherever. Many of these companies are now well established at operating solely within Western Europe and as soon as cabotage is totally abolished (when is this?) they will be able to have fleets based in certain countries doing unlimited amounts of internal work, with their own trucks, bussing in drivers from their own country, at their own rates of pay and putting them up against a domestic British, German, French etc truck that can never, ever hope to compete or come remotely close to doing so. The wage difference alone will finish off domestic transport, just as it has on international work where they’ve had unlimited access for at least a decade now.
When this does happen, those consultancy companies who specialise in “flagging out” UK trucks to BG etc plates will be doing a brisk business and the British truck driver will go the same was as the British miner, ship builder or seaman. The only difference will be that his truck will quite likely still be on the road, only on Bulgarian plates and driven by a Bulgarian driver who does 4 month stints in the UK for a British company and lives in portacabin accommodation at the end of the yard. Any British company will be able to have a postal address in BG or RO and employ drivers from that country, on employment contracts from that country to drive a right hand drive, British owned, RO or BG registered truck on domestic British work. Welcome to the European Union.
Well there’s an answer I wasn’t expecting but all sounds very convincing, let’s hope it doesn’t get that way but I won’t be to optimistic. I did find it strange that there was a mini bus full of them and all there trucks parked up like it was there own yard!
Kevwall:
Well there’s an answer I wasn’t expecting but all sounds very convincing, let’s hope it doesn’t get that way but I won’t be to optimistic. I did find it strange that there was a mini bus full of them and all there trucks parked up like it was there own yard!
The ones you saw are probably doing international work between the UK and other Western European countries and pay someone to park their trucks in their yard during occasions like this when the trucks are not on the road. Either way its a lot cheaper than getting a load back to Lithuania and missing out on those lucrative jobs between England and Italy etc that while still good to them, are now well below the cost of operation, let alone profit for any British or Italian firm who run British/Italian trucks with British/Italian drivers.
robinhood_1984:
Many Eastern European trucks seldom go home,
This is your first mistake. I don’t think for a minute thats true. I’ll tell you why. I’ve worked all over the UK and i’ve never ever seen EU member trucks doing local (uk) work. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t happen, i’m just saying i’ve never seen it. I’m twice your age and have been driving more than twice the length of time you have. Your in Canada or America and i’m still here. I know what i see you’re guessing.
robinhood_1984:
but the drivers do and many of them work on a rotational basis so that they do so many weeks or months away, then get replaced with another guy in situ, either by minibus or cheap flight etc so that the whole truck doesn’t have to return to Lithuania, Romania or wherever. Many of these companies are now well established at operating solely within Western Europe and as soon as cabotage is totally abolished (when is this?) they will be able to have fleets based in certain countries doing unlimited amounts of internal work, with their own trucks, bussing in drivers from their own country, at their own rates of pay and putting them up against a domestic British, German, French etc truck that can never, ever hope to compete or come remotely close to doing so. The wage difference alone will finish off domestic transport, just as it has on international work where they’ve had unlimited access for at least a decade now.
Whilst i share your pain that we have to compete with other EU members, or to put it another way, the way i prefer, large companies are able to exploit us as both drivers and consumers and do whats best for them without a second thought to any consequences. The current EU situation suits them fine Some how you appear to think the UK is not part of the EU? OF course we have to compete with German/French/Lithuanian etc…
robinhood_1984:
When this does happen, those consultancy companies who specialise in “flagging out” UK trucks to BG etc plates will be doing a brisk business and the British truck driver will go the same was as the British miner, ship builder or seaman.
When what happens? A stop to flagging out? Flagging out has been almost, or for the most part halted. You’re behind the times here.
robinhood_1984:
The only difference will be that his truck will quite likely still be on the road, only on Bulgarian plates and driven by a Bulgarian driver who does 4 month stints in the UK for a British company and lives in portacabin accommodation at the end of the yard. Any British company will be able to have a postal address in BG or RO and employ drivers from that country, on employment contracts from that country to drive a right hand drive, British owned, RO or BG registered truck on domestic British work. Welcome to the European Union.
Doesn’t quite work like that, You’re making it up as you go along whilst you post from abroad. It may come as a big suprise to you that there’s loads of companies right here in the UK employing local drivers who deliver local products and actually like their job.
We havn’t got fat arses and we don’t do vids of ourselves shooting AK47’s as a sort of macho photo shoot either.
You where a Southerner too ? ■■■■ knows how you’d of got on if you’d of been born in Glasgow !!!
Mike-C:
This is your first mistake. I don’t think for a minute thats true. I’ll tell you why. I’ve worked all over the UK and i’ve never ever seen EU member trucks doing local (uk) work. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t happen, i’m just saying i’ve never seen it. I’m twice your age and have been driving more than twice the length of time you have. Your in Canada or America and i’m still here. I know what i see you’re guessing.
Yes it is true. If you’d bother to read my entire post you’d realise I said they’re doing work WITHIN WESTERN EUROPE. I did not say they’re doing internal UK, I said they will do if/when cabotage rules are abolished to allow it. You age has nothing to do with this, neither has mine, this is a recent issue that started on a large scale only within the past 10 years, a time frame we’ve both been active in the transport industry for. And no, I’m not guessing anything, I still visit the UK regularly, I still work in the UK occasionally and I still have many friends in the industry, both drivers and office staff, company owners etc and the trend is still continuing in the same direction it has been doing for the past 10 years or so, the only difference being the nationality of eastern European who’s doing the work, usually the newest entrants are the cheapest.
Mike-C:
Whilst i share your pain that we have to compete with other EU members, or to put it another way, the way i prefer, large companies are able to exploit us as both drivers and consumers and do whats best for them without a second thought to any consequences. The current EU situation suits them fine Some how you appear to think the UK is not part of the EU? OF course we have to compete with German/French/Lithuanian etc…
I dont know why you’re saying that I think we’re not part of the EU? As for German and French competition, we can compete against that and they compete against us, Lithuanian on the other hand, no British, German or French company can compete with and thats why the international transport sectors of all 3 of those countries have crashed, especially the British and French in the past 10 years.
Mike-C:
When what happens? A stop to flagging out? Flagging out has been almost, or for the most part halted. You’re behind the times here.
No I’m not. I’m not talking about British trucks merely shifting to Dutch plates, or UK offices of Dutch firms such as HSF and the likes using Dutch plates on soley domestic work, I’m talking about the relatively new process of British companies putting their trucks on Bulgarian plates, this isn’t something thats been halted, its only just begun and if/when cabotage is abolished, I predict it will explode. Whether you agree or not, I don’t care, the end result will speak for itself in the years to come.
Mike-C:
Doesn’t quite work like that, You’re making it up as you go along whilst you post from abroad. It may come as a big suprise to you that there’s loads of companies right here in the UK employing local drivers who deliver local products and actually like their job.
We havn’t got fat arses and we don’t do vids of ourselves shooting AK47’s as a sort of macho photo shoot either.
You where a Southerner too ? [zb] knows how you’d of got on if you’d of been born in Glasgow !!!
The first bit I’ve already covered above. I don’t know what you’re trying to get at with the rest of it. Whats having a fat arse, shooting an AK47, being a southerner or being born in Glasgow got to do with any of this? I’m of average build, certainly not fat, arse or otherwise, I have shot a friends AK47 but I found it was a novelty experience, certainly not a macho one, I didn’t even enjoy it that much, I’m not southern, my home in North Linconshire is further north than both Manchester and Liverpool and I wasn’t born in Glasgow and have no idea why you even mention that.
They ARE doing internal work in the UK, they’ve been doing it for nearly ten years. They were doing it in my own backyard of Purfleet and Dartford, pulling boxes and trailers for Cobelfret, ECS, 2XL etc, they were using Belgian registered lorries with Polish drivers as far back as 2004.
Traction work from Harwich and Felixstowe was the same and from what I heard, the same was going on in the Belgian and Dutch ports.
The lorries were not leaving the country after doing three loads or whatever the law allowed, they were staying over for weeks, maybe months at a time.
A group of local hauliers who used to work out of Dartford and Purfleet, before they were driven out by the cheaper (illegal) competition from abroad were constantly in touch with the ministry trying to get the practice stopped, unfortunately they were too busy giving out GV9s for silly green lights not working or similar petty harassment to legitimate British hauliers.
BOCs 
newmercman:
They ARE doing internal work in the UK, they’ve been doing it for nearly ten years. They were doing it in my own backyard of Purfleet and Dartford, pulling boxes and trailers for Cobelfret, ECS, 2XL etc, they were using Belgian registered lorries with Polish drivers as far back as 2004.Traction work from Harwich and Felixstowe was the same and from what I heard, the same was going on in the Belgian and Dutch ports.
The lorries were not leaving the country after doing three loads or whatever the law allowed, they were staying over for weeks, maybe months at a time.
A group of local hauliers who used to work out of Dartford and Purfleet, before they were driven out by the cheaper (illegal) competition from abroad were constantly in touch with the ministry trying to get the practice stopped, unfortunately they were too busy giving out GV9s for silly green lights not working or similar petty harassment to legitimate British hauliers.
BOCs
I know that and you know that. There even used to be a fleet of Bosnian registered trucks pulling for CCC out of the east coast ports and they never left the country. They were operated from Coventry (I think?), they were liveried up as a British company with a British address on the doors etc but had Bosnian number plates and drivers.
When I moved to Canada in 2009, most of the trucks working ferry trailers out of Immingham, Felixstowe and Harwich were British with a few exceptions. There were some Dutch trucks and some Polish trucks but they were a small minority. When I worked the winter of 2011/12 in the UK, again doing ferry trailers for 3 months, I was quite shocked at just how many Polish, Lithuanian etc trucks where camped in the docks, especially Felixstowe and Harwich, Immingham not so much but still a big raise compared to a few years earlier. The well known Dutch fridge company Wolter Koops got in to trouble more than once round about that time for having Polish trucks/drivers pulling their own Dutch registered trailers out of Immingham and other ports around the UK and exceeding the 3 trips per 7 days rule for internal work and vosa impounded some of them and had them shipped out of the country.
I firmly believe that if/when cabotage is abolished, any sector of UK road transport that can be done on a traction only basis such as ferry trailers, containers etc will be absolutely swamped by thousands of willing and able trucks from the east and it wont be long before the big multinationals such as ND who are infamous for having huge fleets of PL and RO trucks doing international work that their French trucks used to, will start flagging out part of their UK operations to PL, RO or BG plates doing internal UK work, with the corresponding nationality of driver, at much lower wages than the British norm.
Finejas (for example) used to operate back and forth for weeks on end between the UK and Italy mainly when I was doing European work from 2006-09.
According to their website they do engage in cabotage.
Finejas website:
Main international routes
↔ between Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria, Holland, Belgium, England, France, Finland, Sweden, Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. Also we can carry goods within these countries (cabotage).
http://www.finejas.lt/en/full-load-carriage
The bottom line is that these companies specialise in operating almost continuously away from their home country if needs be and if cabotage was totally abolished as the EU is pushing for, there is no reason whatsover that this company and thousands of others would not undertake domestic work. It makes no difference to them if the load goes from London to Milan or London to Newcastle, its all good money to them and offers the possibilities for a huge increase in business and they’ll wipe the floor with British transport firms who still have to operate at the same higher costs.
Loads of rhd old wrecks on bg and ro plates pulling out of purfleet and tilbury. How do i know i see them every day of the week.
Best thing they could do is rebuild the berlin wall
kr79:
Best thing they could do is rebuild the berlin wall.
and since this is the level of intelligence of the people opposed to abolishing cabotage, say hello to your new deliveryman adrianu 
kr79:
Loads of rhd old wrecks on bg and ro plates pulling out of purfleet and tilbury. How do i know i see them every day of the week.
Best thing they could do is rebuild the berlin wall .
I do take the comment quite personally about scumbags as my partner is Bulgarian, of all the Bulgarians I know personally living in and working in this country NOT ONE is thieving or has ever claimed any benefits, in fact quite a few have set up businesses and are employing people all are paying tax, and at least 4 are buying their own houses, the comment is BIGOTED AND BOARDING RACEST 
There are more thieving scumbags from our own population than ever will come over from Bulgaria
robinhood_1984:
I firmly believe that if/when cabotage is abolished, any sector of UK road transport that can be done on a traction only basis such as ferry trailers, containers etc will be absolutely swamped by thousands of willing and able trucks from the east and it wont be long before the big multinationals such as ND who are infamous for having huge fleets of PL and RO trucks doing international work that their French trucks used to, will start flagging out part of their UK operations to PL, RO or BG plates doing internal UK work, with the corresponding nationality of driver, at much lower wages than the British norm.
I posted not long ago about a program on French Tv showing a ND hub in France that each week buses drivers in from Poland. I am pretty certain this is illegal but somehow they are getting away with it when Ryanair got prosecuted for basically flouting French employment laws.
if the drivers from poland are driving french-registered lorries and are paid according to french employment laws, that is legal. if they are driving polish lorries and doing international work, that is legal as well. no need to confuse ill business ethics with illegal.
wildfire:
kr79:
Loads of rhd old wrecks on bg and ro plates pulling out of purfleet and tilbury. How do i know i see them every day of the week.
Best thing they could do is rebuild the berlin wall .I do take the comment quite personally about scumbags as my partner is Bulgarian, of all the Bulgarians I know personally living in and working in this country NOT ONE is thieving or has ever claimed any benefits, in fact quite a few have set up businesses and are employing people all are paying tax, and at least 4 are buying their own houses, the comment is BIGOTED AND BOARDING RACEST
There are more thieving scumbags from our own population than ever will come over from Bulgaria
I agree Wildfire, problem is the Western European companies and politicians who bring in these policies because of their personal greed or ideology. And of course the biggest problem is us, we want cheap food, cheap goods, and we don’t really care where they’re made and who makes them or transports them and what pay and conditions they worked under.
As for Cabotage, the rescrictions were supposed to be lifted in 2014, but under pressure from various countries, industry groups and transport unions, claiming it would have a massive effect on their own haulage industries it has been shelved for the moment. But there are still those who want it and have probably gone back to regroup.
In all I’ve read about it, I haven’t seen the UK government, the RHA or FTA or UK unions putting pressure to keep cabotage.
It seems the main pressure came from French and Scandinavian trade organisations, but many others Western Europe are increasingly against librilising cabotage regs.
It’s time to ask our own representatives where they stand on the subject and what pressure they’ve been putting on the EU not to remove it?