limeyphil:
how often do supermarket trucks get pulled by vosa?
Not very often I don’t think. It’s worrying though because some of the worst fleets on the road belong to supermarkets, I.e Morrison & yours truly tesco, their kit looks absolutely ■■■■…!
limeyphil:
how often do supermarket trucks get pulled by vosa?
Used to drive into the checkpoint at Holyhead when the lights flashed and when they saw it was a Tesco wagon they would just wave you through, got a GV9 in a car transporter though 
truckyboy:
Fair enough,it reads to me like a dig at the semi retired,apologies.Going to work,so you don’t have to!Montmerency
SENIOR MEMBERPosts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:01 pm
Private messageE-mailthank god for that, thought i was gonna have to have a moan…
Aged 66 your’e entitled to a moan or two
Montmerency:
mike68:
bald bloke:
Montmerency:
mike68:
Get a job on the books, that way you don’t get sent home.Agency work suits some people, those who like the flexibility or those who are at the end of their careers and don’t want a full week, I think they, for the most part are thieving parasites who have ruined the job.
Fully expect to be ****** about when working for an agency.If you drive carefully,you too may get to the end of your career and be a theiving parasite.
I think he meant the agencies are thieving parasites not the drivers
Correct.
Fair enough,it reads to me like a dig at the semi retired,apologies.
You often have to translate on here.
Grammar is generally not in the ascendency on Trucknet!
Truckulent:
Montmerency:
mike68:
bald bloke:
Montmerency:
mike68:
Get a job on the books, that way you don’t get sent home.Agency work suits some people, those who like the flexibility or those who are at the end of their careers and don’t want a full week, I think they, for the most part are thieving parasites who have ruined the job.
Fully expect to be ****** about when working for an agency.If you drive carefully,you too may get to the end of your career and be a theiving parasite.
I think he meant the agencies are thieving parasites not the drivers
Correct.
Fair enough,it reads to me like a dig at the semi retired,apologies.
You often have to translate on here.
Grammar is generally not in the ascendency on Trucknet!
I know,spelling and punctuation will be a mystery to some on here.
The problem with morrisons and probably other supermarkets is that they have cancellation clauses with the agencies. I know Morrisons used to be four hours. So basically book as many agency staff as they could possibly ever need and as long as the slots were cancelled with at least four hours notice then no cost/penalty. Completely ■■■■ for the drivers who are booked and then cancelled over and over.
Pimpdaddy:
limeyphil:
how often do supermarket trucks get pulled by vosa?Not very often I don’t think. It’s worrying though because some of the worst fleets on the road belong to supermarkets, I.e Morrison & yours truly tesco, their kit looks absolutely [zb]…!
Co-op have some tatty looking motors too.
Wildy:
The problem with morrisons and probably other supermarkets is that they have cancellation clauses with the agencies. I know Morrisons used to be four hours. So basically book as many agency staff as they could possibly ever need and as long as the slots were cancelled with at least four hours notice then no cost/penalty. Completely [zb] for the drivers who are booked and then cancelled over and over.
I’d charge them a minimum 8 hours with last minute cancellations… 
Truckulent:
Wildy:
The problem with morrisons and probably other supermarkets is that they have cancellation clauses with the agencies. I know Morrisons used to be four hours. So basically book as many agency staff as they could possibly ever need and as long as the slots were cancelled with at least four hours notice then no cost/penalty. Completely [zb] for the drivers who are booked and then cancelled over and over.I’d charge them a minimum 8 hours with last minute cancellations…
The best method of dealing with the problem of agencies is to implement a cap on the numbers used by any given operator of say 20%, so large companies who employ 200 drivers in a single depot are allowed a maximum of 40 agency drivers, this would be enough to cope during busy periods and stop the situation in some places where agency staff outnumber full time employees.
This could cover all industries where agency staff are used and abused by unscrupulous employers, I recall a situation a couple of years back when agency workers employed building the Mini, some 200 of them turned up for work on a Monday morning and were told they were no longer required, despite in many cases having worked there for a number of years being sent away with nothing.
mike68:
Get a job on the books, that way you don’t get sent home.Agency work suits some people, those who like the flexibility or those who are at the end of their careers and don’t want a full week, I think they, for the most part are thieving parasites who have ruined the job.
Fully expect to be ****** about when working for an agency.
So, if some bod like me decides to work 2 days, leaving you the other 4 to pick up as opposed to taking all 6 for myself, leaving you with nowt but a cancellation, how does your argument work exactly? Surely, I’ve “given” you 4, instead of “taken” 6, so there’s no thieving going on here?
The way I see it, the ‘job has been ruined’ by set-in-their-ways full-timers with weak unions who’ll not stand up for decent pay & conditions, let alone stop themselves being pushed around in the name of “Times are 'ard” employers that still seem to afford their 4x4’s and their holidays each year.
An agency will ■■■■ anyone about if (a) they have too many drivers on their books, and not enough work or (b) any particular individual is not considered high enough up the food chain, because maybe they lack experience or can only match the “entry level” 6 points on their licences, or maybe even because they only want to work 5-6 shifts a week 9-5 days…
A dead-giveaway sign of a weak agency is when you see them advertising for drivers to sign up with them over a month after YOU’VE signed up - and you are still waiting for your first assignment with them…
The recession combined with the ageing driver population will eventually solve all of these issues by reducing the number of agencies faster than the core jobs disappear. As agencies disappear, more and more “good” ones with loads of work and not enough drivers will be left - IF one is spared the bloodletting period where the industry finds it’s new economic balance that must preceed such a brighter future.
Estate agents are going through their ‘bloodletting period’ right now, and I reckon that employment agencies with a driving department (as opposed to driver specialist agencies) will be feeling the pinch within a couple of years. 
"I think he meant the agencies are thieving parasites not the drivers
Correct.
Fair enough,it reads to me like a dig at the semi retired,apologies"
That’ll teach me to read the posts from the bottom up!.
My friend here said he is a Kraaton. I too am a Kraaton.
Morrisons are notorious ‘cancellers’; though a lot of Agency (long standing Agency Drivers that is) stick with them as they are non Wincanton/DHL run (hence the laxadasic approach and non-■■■■ Health & Safety). I’ve just done a week’s work for Tesco/DHL Unity at Crick (frozen depot) and was actually pleasnatly surprised at how relaxed it was for a DHL site. For one thing, DHL/Unity will allow both uniforms and agency to wear shorts without question when handling roll cages (as Royal Mail do), so it proves it’s more federalised and not a blanket DHL policy (to be contrasted with other DHL sites in the vicinity - BP at Lutterworth for one, the worst imo!) That said, as much as I don’t like Stobby’s, they are a whole lot better than DHL and I hope Tesco boot DHL out and Stobby’s get their head around running a frozen plant, as living in Crick, I would welcome the opportunity to get in there more consistently. A regular commute to either Nuneaton (Dairy Crest or Hermes) or Desborough (Fowler Welch/Great Bear) is silly given the proximity of work at DIRFT. NFT are to be avoided (ADR, kak pay, no LTD’s), Royal Mail is Manpower (they hate LTD Co Drivers also) and all the DHL sites are hit and miss in terms of attitude (usually bad!). The new Tesco ambient depot at Crick doesn’t appear to use as many agency staff as Fenny Lock did!■■!
Do people get mucked about more by umbrella-only agencies (like ADR in this area at least) than the PAYE ones?
When I originally signed up with ADR, I was chasing the Morrisons Sittingbourne work, along with some Nisa/Iceland work further afield. I specifically stated that I was looking for nights and weekends only.
There was talk of some re-imbursement with Iceland work (commute to Harlow involved) but nothing concrete in writing, which made me suspicious. I turned up for an assessment, only to get stood up by the assessor! No pay for this which I knew in advance, but I was hardly keen to put aside another wasted day to repeat that experience. Then there was the lies about the PAYE which I asked them if they do… Turned out to be “Pseudo” PAYE which I’ve already posted about in length. You don’t ever have to sign up for umbrella/Self-Employed or Ltd Company if you are “real” PAYE, so it’s always a dead-giveaway when you’re then asked to go one of those three ways!
There was also talk of me having to sign a 12 hour contract which would be fine if it was 12 hours guaranteed of the shifts that I thought I was actually signing up for, but could on reflection be used against me by “Sorry bud, you’ve got 6 hours tuesday and wednesday 6am starts @ £7.33ph” scenarios now that I look long and hard at the “work that got away” in retrospect.
Of course, I’m seen as merely some “umming and ahhing” malcontent who’s “pecking order position” is one step below the sandpaper on the floor of the birdcage I reckon! 
It seems that all morrisons work in this area goes through ADR, so I guess I won’t find myself putting any of these hallowed £13ph shifts in any time soon! Holding out for the plummy stuff just doesn’t work with firms running non-PAYE systems it seems.
If this system allows the “9 points OK” crowd to leap-frog me into the plummy shifts (assuming they ever existed at this late stage!) then there might be the explanation there as to why the vehicles are considered “Tatty” as has been mentioned in the previous posts on this thread! 
Cancellations:
The T&C’s of these are between the client and the agency. If the agency are lickcocks for undercutting other firms to get the work (especially on an exlusive agency contract basis) then it makes sense that the client is going to abuse to the full extent their “contractual rights” which may well be “Cancellations OK with 10 minutes notice” and other such nonsense. It’s hardly likely that the bod going in for an agency shift lives across the road from the depot FFS!
Then there’s the 0 hour, 5 hour, or 8 hour arrangement for turning up, having been cancelled with “officially recognised” too short notice.
Here’s a thought… If you have no mobile phone on your person when you go in for a shift, then you CAN’T be texted “Sorry bud, you’re cancellled” only for the text to get ■■■■■■■ in the network for long enough for you to actually make it to the depot… ‘No phone’ would impart some level of power eh?, especially if everyone concerned actually knows officially that you don’t carry one!
I wouldn’t put it past client firms refusing to re-employ any driver insisting upon being paid his hours for turning up after being cancelled though…
"Ok smartarse, here’s your 5 hours DHL guarantee you - but never darken our door again - with ANY agency that might put you in here!"
I reckon DIRFT is better than Crick myself, but I didn’t like the “stalagluft 17” look of the DHL run places - had a guantanamo bay look to them! (employees shuffling out the turnstiles, looking like their very souls had been crushed by the experience!)
The Royal Mail depot has some cracking good looking birds working there, mostly Lithuanian rather than Polish. I dunno what they are like to work for as agency client though, as I only ran into there.
Are Mothercare still opposite? Come to that (in the name of getting back on topic here!) - Where are the big Morrison depots other than Sittingbourne?
mike68:
limeyphil:
how often do supermarket trucks get pulled by vosa?Good question, and the answer is, very rarely.
I have never been stopped, there have been the odd fixed penalty for seat belts and height indicator but that’s all.
They would be wasting their time, drivers hours are strictly adhered to and maintenance is obsessive.
Question: How often do supermarket trucks get done for going up a 7.5t street?
You don’t need to be pulled by VOSA here - not with NIMBY types taking your number (assuming it’s daytime, and they’re out and about!)
Some areas also have Cameras on them… I wonder how many fines/tickets are handed out when an artic appears on a high street cam?
Then of course, there’s the type you never get away with… Running into a 6’6" country lane because the sat nav put you down the direct road without taking due consideration of you being larger than a house! Once officialdom is involved extricating your arse from said situation, it must be inevitable that a hefty fine will result - maybe even an endorsement? 
Winseer:
Cancellations:The T&C’s of these are between the client and the agency. If the agency are lickcocks for undercutting other firms to get the work (especially on an exlusive agency contract basis) then it makes sense that the client is going to abuse to the full extent their “contractual rights” which may well be “Cancellations OK with 10 minutes notice” and other such nonsense. It’s hardly likely that the bod going in for an agency shift lives across the road from the depot FFS!
Then there’s the 0 hour, 5 hour, or 8 hour arrangement for turning up, having been cancelled with “officially recognised” too short notice.
Here’s a thought… If you have no mobile phone on your person when you go in for a shift, then you CAN’T be texted “Sorry bud, you’re cancellled” only for the text to get ■■■■■■■ in the network for long enough for you to actually make it to the depot… ‘No phone’ would impart some level of power eh?, especially if everyone concerned actually knows officially that you don’t carry one!
I wouldn’t put it past client firms refusing to re-employ any driver insisting upon being paid his hours for turning up after being cancelled though…
"Ok smartarse, here’s your 5 hours DHL guarantee you - but never darken our door again - with ANY agency that might put you in here!"
I reckon DIRFT is better than Crick myself, but I didn’t like the “stalagluft 17” look of the DHL run places - had a guantanamo bay look to them! (employees shuffling out the turnstiles, looking like their very souls had been crushed by the experience!)
The Royal Mail depot has some cracking good looking birds working there, mostly Lithuanian rather than Polish. I dunno what they are like to work for as agency client though, as I only ran into there.
Are Mothercare still opposite? Come to that (in the name of getting back on topic here!) - Where are the big Morrison depots other than Sittingbourne?
Mothercare are still opposite and I must confess it’s about the only DIRFT site I haven’t worked out of - similar Early Learning Centre opposite NFT(ish). Royal Mail isn’t a bad crack really as agency, but it’s all Manpower and though they are a reasonable agency to work for, they don’t like LTD’s and are not the best payers PAYE. Royal Mail is good, for those who don’t want regualr weekend work throughout the year, but from about November on are good payers, but will drop you like a a stone once January rears it’s ugly head (if you haven’t been a regular through the year!)
I’ve turned up at various sites (DHL included) where I’ve been cancelled by - DHL say - but not informed by the agency, the agency in question have admitted their mistake and begrudgingly paid the 6 or 8 hrs owed. DHL have not said owt, as it’s the agency that pays by defaultin such circumstances (assuming your valued to even a modicum extent!■■). It happened only last week at DHL/Tesco.
Re Supermarket artics going up 7.5 ton limits: those that have been either a Budgen’s or Co-op Driver at anytime (ok not strictly Supermarkets), will know this is part and parcel of the job, in many small Market Town or village locations (of course, it’s all by agreement with the locals/council etc). A fair few Tesco’s can be the same - Burton-upon-Trent store being a notable example, along with a myriad Metro stores.I did an assessment at Morrison’s Burton Latimer about 3 years ago and as soon as the chap assessing me learned I had done 3 years agency with Budgen’s, he said (and I quote!), “if you can do Budgen’s, you can certainly do this s.hit”…we just did one lap around the RDC and that was that!
…So that brings the “reporting” of offenders down to nimbys then?
If there’s just some kind of local agreement to “let a few supermarkets through” since they have shops in the area, then it would make sense for the local authorities to turn a blind eye as a matter of habit.
On the other hand, if it’s some jobsworth on the Camera who puts two and two together and says “Hah! I happen to know HIS drop is on the other side of town, so he’s trying to take a short cut coming this way!”
…I might still be in the crapper. 
Look at the driveraround in Harlow for example, compared to cutting straight through the middle… Miss a turn at a roundabout, and it looks like you’ve done it on purpose to cut the corner!
Winseer:
…So that brings the “reporting” of offenders down to nimbys then?If there’s just some kind of local agreement to “let a few supermarkets through” since they have shops in the area, then it would make sense for the local authorities to turn a blind eye as a matter of habit.
On the other hand, if it’s some jobsworth on the Camera who puts two and two together and says “Hah! I happen to know HIS drop is on the other side of town, so he’s trying to take a short cut coming this way!”
…I might still be in the crapper.
Look at the driveraround in Harlow for example, compared to cutting straight through the middle… Miss a turn at a roundabout, and it looks like you’ve done it on purpose to cut the corner!
Sorry; what was your particular situation again■■? Remember that a lot of 7.5 ton limits do have a get out clause below them in the ‘Except for access/loading’ part. So, in many ways a lot of local business will not have to seek exemplary permission from the local council - the permission is already factored in, IF your business is en route of course. The NIMBY’s won’t matter, if the reason is genuine. If the short cut scenario becomes regular as you allude to above, then the Council in question will warn the company of the situation who in turn will reprimand the Driver/s in question. If it carries on, then legal action/dismissals etc will inevitable commence. The process must be constructive though and not ‘sledgehammer’. I got warned once for turning an artic in Bradford-on-Avon (council and locals on phone etc!), just prior to the bridge (18 ton limit) on my way to a store delivery (some 10 years ago now) that just happened to be on the other side of said bridge. Reason being some pratt had given me written directions saying delivery was town-side of bridge and didn’t need to cross it. Not good, and there was no way I was going across a medieval era bridge, in a 32-ton truck (even though people do!)
No, my position was merely missing what looked like the customer car park entrance, and having gone straight on at the roundabout, then finding myself in an inescapable 7.5t one way street through the old high street before coming out on the far side of the town by-pass, so I could circle back on the link road and make a second approach. Corrected it all ok, only wasted 5 minutes, etc. BUT… that nagging worry that someone is going to say “Hey, that shop is outside the 7.5t zone, so WTF is he doing driving up past Ye Olde Shoppe up the fairly narrow high street?”
It’s very much a one-off ■■■■ up as far as I’m concerned.
Wildy:
The problem with morrisons and probably other supermarkets is that they have cancellation clauses with the agencies. I know Morrisons used to be four hours. So basically book as many agency staff as they could possibly ever need and as long as the slots were cancelled with at least four hours notice then no cost/penalty. Completely [zb] for the drivers who are booked and then cancelled over and over.
Exactly how it works. If an agency refuses to comply, they don’t get the gig.
Absolute nightmare for the consultants too, trust me; contrary to what some of you like to believe there’s not one consultant in the land who gets any pleasure out of standing a driver down, or has to change his start time three times in an hour. Lost bookings = lost business, and as any farmer will tell you, supermarkets rule the roost, they don’t give a toss so long as the job gets done for least cost.
I don’t blame drivers for being cynical about how agencies work, but it’s not always of their choice or doing when a shift gets knocked, especially at weekends.
