Fixed Penalty Notice Vosa

Hi,
Need a little help with this one, one of my drivers was stopped by Vosa at Milton Keynes on Friday, and after checking over the vehicle and trailer, all they found was that the Ratchet trailer handbrake could not be set, because the small clip that stops the ratchet wheel had become stuck with road dirt etc, he had just come back from Italy via France up thru Epinal and the weather conditions were very bad with 4-6" inches of snow and the under side of the trailer was very dirty, he said that all it needed was a spray with WD and it would be Ok, but they refused to let him do this and issued him with a Fixed Penalty Notice with £60 Fine which I do not have a problem with, but also it’s an Endorsable Offence and it states " Uk driving licence holders must submit their licence to VOSA within 14 days of receipt of this notice"

He did spray WD onto the Ratchet and locking clip and it worked perfectly, but they still issued the Fixed Penalty and then give him a Roadworthiness Exemption Notice allowing him to carry on his journey "Stating, Is not disconnected from drawing vehicle. Unrestricted to Port of Exit" this is of course a Foreign Registed Unit and trailer, but with an English Driver, which is why I think they nicked him because they can put points on his Licence, and of course he did give them a bit of Lip !! Idiot !!
This trailer is a Talson Hanging Garment trailer 1997 serviced and inspected every 6/8 weeks it’s the only trailer we still have with the old Ratchet handbrake and stupid locking clip, but it still in good condition and only ever done light work. Any idea’s !!! Any VOSA boys on here !!

If he had the WD40 with him and fixed the problem on the spot then it seems a ridiculous thing for VOSA to give him a penalty for it !!

Question , when he sprayed the ratchet was the VOSA still there and watching ,did he have a witness who can back him up?
IF so approach one of the well known solicitors who take VOSA on
and spend a few quid to see if its worth fighting at the same time write a letter to where you are supposed to send the licence and say you are taking legal advice and it may just be that you opt for a court appearance and so
when winning the case be applying for restitution for financial loss incurred. fight fire with fire if it can be proved that they VOSA are incapable of acting in a intelligent way, and incapable of seeing if the driver was right or wrong
it shows that this section of Vosa is ill trained and incompetent,

Thanks for the replies, on the back of the fixed penalty you can fill out part 2 at the bottom of the form and go to court ?
Unfortunately there were no witnesses, other than VOSA when he sprayed the WD on the ratchet, but they allowed him to continue
on his way and put on the Roadworthiness Exemption Notice ( is not disconnected from drawing unit, unrestricted to port of exit )
To me this means that the trailer was not a danger and they should not have give him the fixed penalty, also he was not going to drop
the trailer, because we keep the same unit and trailer together all the time.

So if anyone knows any case law, please put forward.

Many thanks

JJSL

I would write a complaint to VOSA HQ and ask them if they thought this was a reasonable action for their employee to take in the circumstances - nothing to lose by doing it

i not defending vosa here but it would be a daily check to make sure the trailer brake is working at the start of the shift this is why vosa are doing this to make sure the driver, drives a vehicle in roadworthy as you said the weather was bad and as the driver new this check should be done just in case

look at it this way if asking to put WD40 after the stop is pointless, and the driver having wd40 with him to do it, why not do it at the daily check

delboytwo:
i not defending vosa here but it would be a daily check to make sure the trailer brake is working at the start of the shift this is why vosa are doing this to make sure the driver, drives a vehicle in roadworthy as you said the weather was bad and as the driver new this check should be done just in case

look at it this way if asking to put WD40 after the stop is pointless, and the driver having wd40 with him to do it, why not do it at the daily check

A VERY good point Del.

So did the driver check the ratchet trailer brake was working before he set off that day :question:

ROG:
…So did the driver check the ratchet trailer brake was working before he set off that day :question:

:unamused: :unamused: :unamused: …of course he did rog!!!

Wouldnt you■■?

ROG:
…So did the driver check the ratchet trailer brake was working before he set off that day :question:

bullitt:
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused: …of course he did rog!!!

Wouldnt you■■?

JJSL:
we keep the same unit and trailer together all the time.

Which is why I asked the question…

JJSL:
and of course he did give them a bit of Lip !! Idiot !!

Yes, this is never a very good idea.

I’ve been given delayed prohibitions for air leaks and a defective tyre(cut inner wall) and these are both endorseable offences.

I’ve also been stopped with an expired MOT on the day I shipped in, having been delayed abroad by a week, and for minor tacho infringements but I am always very friendly towards them, and explain to them that I am as keen to have a safe vehicle as they are, and touch wood, I have always got away with a verbal warning.

Yes I agree and the driver did give them a bit of lip, but he had been held-up and was late for a collection at Milton Keynes and the last thing you need on a friday afternoon is VOSA when your are trying to get your collections done, so you can ship out Sunday.
Yes, :blush: :blush: of course he done his walk round and checked the ratchet and it worked perfectly, but then he left and there was still a lot of snow etc which by the time he was stopped had seized up again, which is why he said to VOSA can I spray it with WD and it will be Ok, and if he had to drop the trailer, he would have sprayed it again so it worked, also he does carry two wheel chocks.

So, anyone got any good idea’s or previous case law to put forward in defence, Ho !! we do have a few VOSA on this site :smiley: :bulb: I’ve been told various times that VOSA are here to help ! just give us a call and yes I can think of a few things to call them !

JJSL:
Yes, :blush: :blush: of course he done his walk round and checked the ratchet and it worked perfectly,

Well, I wish him good luck then, he is far more conscientious than I am, I think the last time I even looked at a trailer handbrake was in 1986 when I took my Class 1test :wink:

EDIT In all seriousness, it does seem unfair for a driver to receive an endorsement for this, like you I hope we can get some input from the VOSA members on here.

At the risk of getting shot at I’ll put my tin hat on and stick my head above the parapet.

Let’s just make one point very clear, I have no personal knowledge of this incident nor do I do ‘mechanical matters’ at roadside checks. However, I did go and read the published copy of the VOSA Enforcement Sanctions Policy.

From the OP it appears that a vehicle was the subject of a roadside check and the ratchet mechanism on the trailer parking brake was found to be inoperative. This is contrary to C&U Regs 1986. This is as close to an ‘absolute offence’ as you can get in that the brake either ‘works’ at the time it is tested or it ‘doesn’t work.’ If the brake works then all is fine and dandy and the vehicle will be on its’ way. If the brake doesn’t work then we get the scenario described by the OP. The vehicle will be prohibited from further movement until the issue is resolved. Had it been a UK registered vehicle it is highly likely that the trailer would have been visiting a test station to make sure there are no other faults. Unfortunately the law does not permit VOSA to impose this course of action on a foreign registered vehicle.

Thinking about the driver for a moment. He was the ‘user’ of a defective vehicle and as such the law provides that a certain sanction should be applied. This has been the case since 1988 when the Road Traffic Act was placed on the Statute book by Parliament. This Act replaced a previous law, so in reality the situation hasn’t changed for many decades. The Act basically says that if there are defects with tyres, brakes or steering components, then the maximum fine upon summary conviction is £ 5000 and the driving licence will be endorsed with 3 points.

Note for employers who are partnerships, if the driver is employed by the partnership (not one of the partners) then they will be getting a fine and points in addition to the driver. If the employer is a Limited Company, they will be getting a fine, but no points. Although I’ve often thought that is the Company Secretary could get points on their licence for C&U offences, then all company vehicles (reps cars included) may get looked after a bit better.

Right, back to the driver. What has changed in April 2008 is that VOSA Examiners have been given the powers to issue Fixed Penalty Notices. Previously drivers and operators would have to be summonsed to attend court and for a number of reasons this didn’t always happen when it should have done. What we are now seeing is the law being applied as it was originally intended.

What are the options? The first one is that the driver pays the fine and surrenders his licence within the required time periods, effectively that is the end of the matter. If the fine is not paid or the licence not surrendered then further offences are committed. Pleading ‘not guilty’ would appear not to be an option. As I said earlier this is pretty much an ‘absolute offence’ in that when checked the brake didn’t function as required. Whilst I’m not a solicitor and cannot advise you what to do, this appears to be a case you would loose should you elect to take it to Court by pleading ‘not guilty.’ Everything that you have said regarding service intervals of the trailer, the fact that it stays permanently with the tractor and that the defect was easily fixed is ‘mitigation’ rather than a ‘defence.’

If you want to complain then the procedure is that you should contact the Area Manager, in this case try; GVTS, Stanbridge Road, Leighton Buzzard, Beds. LU7 4QG. Alternatively you can contact the Corporate Office at; VOSA, Croydon Street, Bristol BS5 0DA.

For those who felt that the Examiner was acting beyond his remit, the matter is pretty simple, an offence has been committed and dealt with according to the guidance issued.

Have a nice day all, I’m off to find the keys to the fallout shelter

@geebee45 I have a some questions about the way the officer acted
as over here (germany ) say we get stopped and have a broken bulb
mirror or a at first non functioning trailer brake, if we have say a bulb/mirror and fix that it is okay, also if we show that the brake
does work after re- lubricating, then they let us off, Me personally
I would go to court and take your group on WHY because the problem
caused by A collection of dirt that was collected during driveing
after I had done my first parade checks before moving off, furthermore
if the officer hadtaken the time and trouble to see if the item mentioned
worked after the driver took the action mentioned, he has in my opinion
shown what a wallyif the brake did not workafter the driver lubed
it then YES do him by all means butbloody hell no one can drive round in
a plastic bag so that dirt does not get into those places , sorry no he and the law in this case are Asses ,
--------
now your point about not being allowed to take NoN:UK; vehicles
to a Testing station, they do this quite regularly over here, and they take
all from home grown to those who come from Timbuktu
and if found defective they stay put till fixed or picked up by recovery and or even scrapped,
lets get the UK out and doing this as well CHANGE THE LAW
whats good for one is good for every one,
geebeee, sorry did not mean to be so long winded but
some how that officer if what happened is correct needs a talk to,
he was wrong,

Pete,

There are a few differences as to how things are done in Germany and the UK. Although I’ve driven quite a bit in Germany (just like you have done here) I cannot comment on how your legal system works because I’ve never been subject to it.

In the UK legal system there are certain offences that are ‘absolute.’ Basically that means that you cannot plead ‘not guilty,’ as the facts of the case are not arguable. For example, the tread depth of a tyre was less then the HGV limit of 1 mm. It either was or it wasn’t. If the tread depth is 1.1mm then there is no offence, if the depth is 0.95mm then an offence is committed. Lights are the same, it was either working at the time of the check or it wasn’t. If the light works there is no offence. If it doesn’t then the driver has committed an offence because the law requires mandatory lights to work. If the light isn’t needed at the time of the check, for example lunchtime on a dry day then the driver will be allowed to continue on his journey and told to replace the bulb before dark. If it is dark or bad weather makes the use of the light mandatory, then the driver will be issued with a FPN and the vehicle prohibited until the bulb has been replaced. With the ratchet trailer brake the law requires the brake to work at all times that the vehicle is on the road. From the description given in the OP the ratchet was seized at the time the vehicle was inspected. Therefore the brake wouldn’t work and an offence is committed.

Apologies if I misled you about VOSA not being able to direct foreign registered vehicles to a Test Station, they can. In the UK we have two types of mechanical prohibitions; immediate and delayed. The immediate is basically as it says, the vehicle may not be moved until the defect is rectified. The delayed means that the vehicle is not considered to be an ‘immediate’ danger to road safety, but the fault is likely to become more serious within a short time. Delayed prohibitions are usually between 3 and 10 days and it is expected that an operator will get the vehicle repaired and submitted for test within the period stated on the prohibition notice. If they don’t then the prohibition becomes effective and an offence is committed if the vehicle is used. VOSA doesn’t issue delayed prohibitions to foreign vehicles as their is no mechanism to get them cleared, that was the process I was attempting to describe in my original post.

VOSA and the Police cannot change the law, all they can do is enforce it. It is upto Parliament to change the law, they might get around to doing it sometime, but they have other things to occupy their minds at present so I won’t hold my breath.

Finally, any driver may challenge either a prohibition or a FPN. Like I said earlier I’m not a solicitor but in my opinion I don’t hold out much hope of a successful appeal given the circumstances described.

Geebee45, well done for 'sticking your head over the parapet '.

Firstly my experience of a similar incident to the above. I was stopped in a roadside check some (poss 10-12) years ago and the return spring on the pawl was broken and the ratchet useless unless the pawl was engaged with a finger, which of course I did. The ‘ministry man’ said he was going to issue me with a ‘GV9’ and I argued the point that the ratchet worked perfectly once the pawl was engaged manually, he said that in his opinion the ratchet mechanism was faulty and ‘due’ a prohibition. I dared him to issue it and said that I would “fight it tooth & nail”!!! he decided not to issue it and sent me on my way.

I would equally argue that the ‘TEMPORARILLY SIEZED’ ratchet mechanism is definately not an absolute offence. You mention that a broken bulb during daylight hours wouldnt attract a prohibition as it’s only required at night. Similarly, a hand applied parking brake is only required when the trailer is to be detatched and the fact that it required a minor repair (a spray of WD40) to make it work is only incidental to it’s operation as once the minor repair was effected the park brake worked perfectly. Had the service or normal parking brake been faulty I would be inclined to agree with you that it should be considered an ‘absolute offence’, however, given the weather conditions that played a major part in the mechanism failing to operate, I simply can’t see how anyone could call this an absolute offence!!

I would take this to the highest court and remind them that the vehicle & trailer PARKING BRAKE system wasn’t shown to have any fault, it was only the mechanical back up to the spring brake (‘anchorlock’) system that was in question. I would also highlight the fact that the ‘temporary fault’ was brought about by the exceptional weather conditions (roads being gritted) and was easilly remidied (in minutes) by the driver.

All of this highlites my point that VOSA now employ and train school / college leavers rather than qualified, experienced HGV fitters who have mechanical sympathy and understanding for situations like this. They train their enforcement officers that a ‘fault is a fault’, read the ‘hand book’ and if it says so, issue a prohibition!! Gone are the days when the VOSA man understood how much a certain part can wear in six weeks. He would also be able to see that a ratchet handbrake ‘gummed up’ with snow and road grit, and readilly freed with a spray of oil DID NOT REQUIRE any further action. If they have no experience they can have no empathy, this is synical, and I believe, a deliberate ploy by VOSA and the main reason for them employing young people rather than qualified fitters. (like they used to do!!!)

I believe it’s called discretion, something sadly lacking in roadside checks these days!!

Ross

Many thanks, Geebee45 and Brit Pete, for your comments, I will have a think :bulb: and see.

Regards

JJSL

bigr250:
All of this highlites my point that VOSA now employ and train school / college leavers rather than qualified, experienced HGV fitters who have mechanical sympathy and understanding for situations like this. They train their enforcement officers that a ‘fault is a fault’, read the ‘hand book’ and if it says so, issue a prohibition!! Gone are the days when the VOSA man understood how much a certain part can wear in six weeks. He would also be able to see that a ratchet handbrake ‘gummed up’ with snow and road grit, and readilly freed with a spray of oil DID NOT REQUIRE any further action. If they have no experience they can have no empathy, this is synical, and I believe, a deliberate ploy by VOSA and the main reason for them employing young people rather than qualified fitters. (like they used to do!!!)

I believe it’s called discretion, something sadly lacking in roadside checks these days!!

Ross

VOSA vehicle examiners are qualified for the job, I hesitate to say “highly qualified” as that’s a relative term and of course some of them are not great at the job regardless of experience. Traffic examiners on the other hand are not qualified and as such are limited to the bleedin’ obvious for issuing PG9’s on the whole (although a few of them are mechanically experienced). You should also bear in mind they have targets and year end (for them, the financial year) is approaching so the pressure is on to issue paperwork.

I think the OP said the vehicle was foreign and the driver UK? If so the ESP says “In cases where the vehicle is GB registered a fixed penalty notice will only be issued to the driver where the driver is partly or solely culpable for the offence.” but that means if the vehicle is foreign that option is not available and an FP must always be issued.

I agree with the many learned posters above re he should have checked it himself and honestly, if you give some lip you’re going to get something, anything, in return.

In conclusion, I don’t think an appeal is warranted or potentially successful, and of course, you can only appeal the FP, not the PG9.

Thank you bigr250,

You have raised some very good points and I think it’s worth taking it further and get a legal opinion and print
off the replies, so if anyone as an objection to me using their comments, please advise and/or PM me.

Sorry for missing posts, I have kept the page open and not refreshed, so also thank you to trumplesneaker.

Regards

JJSL
Tony

i know most things have been covered already but it just makes my blood boil at the high handed,arrogant way we get treated ,
as already said these new enforcement officers have no mechanical sympathy or experience of day to day running, how on gods earth can you be held up and fined for a bulb blowing ■■ have these cretins never heard of mechanical failure??

i got a gv9 on portsmouth dock because a tyre blew and took the wing with it, when i was issued the ticket i asked if it was now neccesary to carry wings,stays and a fitter now along side the tyre? and no i wasnt stroppy or mouthy with them but just very dissilusioned with their attitude.

it just seems to come back to what i was told years ago by a dutch friend , britain is a very strange country -they seem to kick their own people in the nuts every chance they get but just wave and encourage foreigners to do whatever,