Festive Greetings to all from a frustrated virgin trucker

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Greetings Guys and Gals

Firstly - Thank you for accepting and approving my application to join a unique band of brothers and sisters.

Secondly - Thank you all to those that post regulary for allowing me to gain an understanding of what is the British haulage business - The benefits - The frustrations - Eddie Stobarts - Agencies etc - but I must admit I have had much enjoyment reading your posts over several months from lurking outside of the offical forum - (So please do keep this up)

However, About Moi.

I am a 39 year old farther of three who’s children range from 14 years down to a toddler of three years of age, with all four of us being looked after by my working partner, their mother. (Not unlike most people on here I dare say).

I will not go into detail about my secure current job, but what I will say without causing offence to anyone by my poor analogy, is that I drive a company car up, down and across the UK road network covering in excess of well over 60,000 mls per annum whilst on a guarenteed salary of plus £45k per year without bonus - but the job after 12 years does not light the fire within me anymore and has long been extinguised, - Hense why I am posting on a Driving Forum.

My own job allows for me to drive as mentioned, but the interest I have in LGV driving goes way back to my childhood when my late farther would take my to school in his HGV Bedford, Long trips away, sheeting up, coke in a glass bottle and a carry out consisting of DOCKER cheese and onion sarnies - so I guess its in my DNA.

For information - He worked for Guiness - Export Bottles - then Higsons.

I read with interest on here that the standard day/night working hours can range from anywhere between 8 up to 15 hrs per shift, taking into consideration the 9 hrs driving allowance, but for me personally, working 12 - 15 hour plus days sometimes over seven days is the norm within the service industry, so I sometimes fail to understand, other then the monerty points regulary raised, why some people on here moan about this given you are still getting paid?. As a outsider = this is what being part of the service industry consists of ie long hours - look at security - hospitality etc

However, Im not saying it right working for reported lows as £7.04 for a specialist C+E - but the haulage industry is a very competitive market and it doesnt matter how cheap companies will go to win new business, even lowering their profit margins to win said business - will always result in the product being delivered regardless - the end user suffers.

That said, I do totally support your argument about missing your family and social functions but this is not unique to the haulage industry - industry in general is now 24/7.

But what I am seriously considering is doing the following in the new year as I’m now at a highway crossroads with the view to changing career lanes and paying for the following with a local LGV training provider, but out of interest, without the two year experience, would it give me an advantage in seeking part time agency work, with the view of seeking out a totally new career direction for me.

I do fully understand that the industry is not all High Fives, back patting and bunting as was the impression recently given by the company in green documentry on C5 - im a realist.

Such is my seriousness to get my drive train going, I have recently enquired about the following total training package from a local NW training supplier for £2695, add £250 for cpc and driving is on a 121 instruction, but was wondering if any training providers reading in, especially Pete the trainer from Mansfield - thinks my money is being well invested.

  • LGV DRIVING ASSESSMENT
  • LGV MEDICAL FEE
  • HAZARD PERCEPTION TRAINING
  • THEORY TRAINING
  • HAZARD PERCEPTION TEST
  • THEORY TEST
  • LGV Category C Rigid Course — 20 hours including test day
  • DSA Driving Test Fee
  • LGV Category C+E Artic Course — 20 hours including test day
  • DSA Driving Test Fee
  • ADR DANGEROUS GOODS COURSE
  • FORK LIFT TRUCK DRIVER COURSE
  • HIAB COURSE
  • TACHOGRAPH COURSE

Please any advise given will be taken as an education into your industry and I look forward to recieving your points of view.

Cheers and Regards

Paul.

2

Bit early for christmas but never mind welcome to the mad house

Who will you be going with :question: is this a company or broker :question: if broker avoid like the plague

Visit several providers before you part with money

When I done my Cat C my provider arranged my medical then HPT & theory also provided the cd rom with the questions & HPT cd then the lessons & test

There are some advantages to 1-1 training as there are some advantages to 2-1 if this you can learn from the other person mistakes

It is not easy as a newbie in this industry as you properly know & yep there are long hr involved as you say but the pay wont be as good as you have now so may have to change lifestyle to suit this & do you really want to sleep out in a lorry all week & not see your kids :question:

Depends how many hr you work through the week as to doing agency work as well as they will count towards the WTD so you cant work more than 90hr in the fortnight

3

Let me tell you my point of view, I too work in the service industry, I,m 33 I am a Head Chef earning a £35k per year minimum salary + bonuses + tips so £40k on a good year, I work currently 75-90 hours per week, like yourself I too have a family and a home and to run, I always wanted to be a lorry driver, don’t know why but I did, summer 2012 I make the £2500 investment in gaining my class 1 & 2 licences and signed up to every agency in my area, I sent emails, cv’s, letters to every haulage firm within a 50 mile radius of my home, the result/the reality of being a newbie with zero experience kicked in, in response to the 50+ haulage firms that I sent an email or cv or letter or all 3 I got in total 2 responses both of which said thanks but no thanks, as for the 12+ agency’s I have signed up to I have done a total of 4 driving jobs 2 of which were non hgv (mercedes sprinter) my £38 digi card has never been used! I live in a part of the country that has quite frankly a massive amount of haulage companies, supermarket distribution centres etc etc and a shed load of jobs advertised, in short without the experience non of them are available, my advice would be to think vet carefully before spending the money and if you do decide to take the plunge don’t give up your day job just yet. I thought at this time of year with Christmas temp drivers there would be plenty of agency work I have had 2 calls in December!!

4

Do you Realy want to give up The salery you are on now , to pay out large sums of money on ’ the trucking experience’, & more than likely totaly reverse the stability of your present income!! Trucking is a way of life, & depending on what job you may get , you may not see much of your family!!

Your young & so is your family, may have a stable life now on the sort of an income you have been recieving, but in reality how long will you & your family be able to cope with a financial turn around, whatever you have saved will dwindle to nothing fast , as the hardship sets in . I’m not trying to paint a black picture here, some do get good jobs but a lot get by on what they can get .

The driver jobs tend to dwindle about February, & unless you are lucky enough to have a well paid job ready for you to walk into, you’ll probably be getting odd days from agency.
I would seriously think twice about packing in your good wage, whatever you choose to do, good luck whatever you choose to do.

5

For me personally its not about the money I’m lucky that my other half earns a decent salary as well, as for way of life I’m a chef who has worked 90+ hours a week my average working day is 16-18 hours 5 sometimes 6 days a week, for past 17 years cooking is definitely a way of life it has to be I can go days without even seeing my other half to even talk to, for me it is something I always wanted to do, it is a shame newbies like myself cannot get the work.

6

reevsey182:
For me personally its not about the money I’m lucky that my other half earns a decent salary as well, as for way of life I’m a chef who has worked 90+ hours a week my average working day is 16-18 hours 5 sometimes 6 days a week, for past 17 years cooking is definitely a way of life it has to be I can go days without even seeing my other half to even talk to, for me it is something I always wanted to do, it is a shame newbies like myself cannot get the work.

It is a shame there is no work :unamused:

There are a lot of drivers out there young older experienced new etc who cant get any work all agency advertise the same job or no real job so it looks like there are plenty to have

I did work in catering until about 17 yr ago when I started driving & yep this time of year was flat out working 7 days a week sometimes split shifts so know what that is like was hard being a single mother & doing that but we got through it but nope wouldnt go back to it

7

You asked specifically for me to reply - so here goes. Clearly I have a vested interest in people learning to drive LGV’s so read whatever bias you wish into this.

I still believe that trucking is a great career - once you can get started and get the lucky breaks. No-one is likely to get rich driving a truck. Maybe with your service experience coupled with the fact that you’re clearly articulate you could move up the management scale. Marginally better hours and substantially more money in the right post.

Everyone will tell you there’s either no work or that, as a newbie, you wont get what work there is. And there’s plenty of anicdotal evidence to support that view. And there’s a number of newbies stating they have secured work - thankyou very much. Some of it is geographical and, IMO, some is down to the quality of the application and interview.

The deal you have on offer is a good one provided it is with a reputable trainer. I would always suggest you have an assessment with at least 2 trainers bearing in mind that “not all training is the same” and “buy cheap, buy twice”. This will assure you that you are happy with the set up including quality of vehicles and attitude of staff - especially trainers.

Hope this helps. Pete :laughing: :laughing:

8

All,

Thank you for your individual and honest responses, I do appreciate all of them and note advice offered.

However, to help clear up my predicament, I am not looking to leave my current job and benefits straight away, as some have rightly pointed out, as this would be commercially inept, if not suicidal, of me to walk away from a monthly and guarenteed take home income. However, Im not motivated by money. Regardless of proffesion, we all want more but more does not always bring happiness. Food for thought time.

I have worked hard over many years to become a reputable senior manager, but also during this period of time, there have been many hours worked and far to many occassions when I have sacrificed the family to complete work related business - I need to break the cycle now while Im still in good health and relativly young.

Once Ive left this plant, the transcript on my grave stone will read along the lines of - Here Lies Paul, Devoted Husband to, Beloved Father of, died suddenly and by the way, he should have worked harder. :laughing:

I feel the pain raised by Reevey182 as with the others Chefs, Train Drivers, Security Officers amongst some of the professions who are all looking for the all important “OUT” of their current plight. They too I have no doubt, are all as equally as hard working. However, the advice being offered has always remained consistant - make your own luck and good luck. There are evn success stories posted on here about newbies securing long term permanent employment, so I always maintain glass half full as apposted to half empty.

For me my first steps is to seek a reputable LGV training provider that will allow for me to gain a C+E licence, with the view of registering with several NW agencies who can regulary offer driving work maybe one or two days per week, in order for me to gain as much experience as I possibly can. There is no quick fix for me in achieving my driving goals, Ive set no date, but this is a passion of mine and not some mild driving fixation. I will earn my spurs over time.

My thoughts and anxiety regarding my own career change remains this - Better to have tried than not tried at all.

Anyway regarding the choice of trainer. I must admit that I didnt have a clue about the quality and reputations of so called LGV training Brokers prior to reading from this forum, and with this advice I will be steer clear from them, but my initial contact has been through and with Red Rose Training in Bolton who are offering the training package of interest to me - But im still not 100% commited to them.

I know where they are based as I drive past their HQ quite frequently and have also seen their Units outside and on the roads and byways across the North West. They are also DSA accredited so they must be doing something right. But again, any personnal experiences or feedback regarding RedRose would be of must interest to me. Basically, are they all fur coat no knickers.

I have researched, listened, observed and even spoken with drivers face to face - given that I come into contact with them regulary, and I fully understand the role of the proffesional driver, to the extent of hours, type of work, travel, time away from the family, overnight stops but I have never experienced sleeping in a cab.

However, Have any of you ever slept in the drivers cab or on the back engine decks of the Main British Army Challenger 2 Battle Tank? I have for ten years, so I can live rough. :laughing:

I bet even the most basic sleeper cab will have better living accomodation than that. If anything, it will be dry, you will be dry, and your clothes will be dry, so home from home living, without the missus of course.

Anyway, hopefully this will now provide a better insight as to what I am looking to achive, and not to simply walk away from a guarenteed salary like some sort of marter with a cause.

In summery - When Im off, I want to be off and not on call 24/7 - 365 - barring holidays - as this will provide a greater platform of stability for myself and family but more importantly my own well being.

Regards

Paul.

9

They are also DSA accredited

I’m not aware that Red Rose are DSA Accredited though they do have a good name. I think they have their own test site but this is a different thing altogether from being DSA Accredited. This link shows the DSA Accredited LGV centres and I don’t see their name. I repeat that I am not aware - if someone shows me differently, that’s fine.
dft.gov.uk/fyn/lgv.php

From the Red Rose website:

WE ARE PROUD TO ANNOUNCE THAT OUR RADCLIFFE CENTRE HAS BEEN CHOSEN BY THE DRIVING STANDARDS AGENCY AS ONE OF THE FIRST IN THE COUNTRY AND THE ONLY ONE IN THE NORTH WEST TO BE APPROVED AS A CUSTOMER TESTING SITE FOR BOTH LGV AND PCV TESTS.

I’m sure if they were also DSA Accredited, they’d have that on the website as well.

BTW, we were the FIRST private test centre in the UK - opened April, 2008/
Pete :laughing: :laughing:

10

You could always go to Peter Smyth training as I do believe there is a B&B near where you can stay :bulb:

11

Good choice, excellent training,& vehicles, I went there, got my licences, b&b sorted for me in the package, been offered lots of work since, very professional people & set up, happy trucking,:slight_smile:

12

Peter,

Again, thank you for the feedback regarding RRT and their accredition, maybe it was me that misunderstood whether they were in fact DSA accredited? but I do recall seeing the same paragraph on their website, as pointed out by you, and also recall this during the converstaion with them that DSA something or other was mentioned.

Just goes to show how carefull you need to be regarding the small print, or maybe, in my eagerness to get my training moving I have completly connected the two or was I looking through Rose tinted spectacles. :confused:

One thing is for certain, had I not mentioned it, I wouldnt be any the wiser but they are clearly not on the list.

You cant beat knowledge - its King.

In regards to your own standard of training and set up - there appears to be some flag wavers and advocates of the Peter Smythe experience - tell me what percentage commision are you paying them :laughing: or are they both family members… :laughing: I bet the aftermentioned B&B could tell some stories. :wink:

In all seriousness - Liverpool - Mansfield can be achieved easily as a daily commute, so I guess my next question is, now you have seen the list of what RRT are offering, and the cost to deliver this training package, what would it cost through your own company? over what peiord of time should I realistically expect this programme to run ie start to finish.

Also, as we are on a public forum - I totally understand and support your business confidentiality if you chose to provide the requested information privately.

Regards

Paul.

13

Paul you can give Peter a call he will give you some impartial advice as he has me on several occasions btw ( although not used him )

RRT instructors may be DSA trained / qualified so dont totally dismiss that which is sightly different to being accredited

Do you really want to travel Liverpool - Mansfield & back daily :question: after a day of training & a lot of concentrating as it not like driving a car remember back to when you were learning to drive not sure how you done that but with HGV / LGV it can be full days out in the lorry with poss 8.30 start finish approx 16.00

May be better to stay just saying take him up on that offer

14

Hi Animal,

I get your points totally.

Naturally, I want the best training provider that will deliver to my expectations at a mutually agreed fee - I want the best for my buck, so to speak.

In todays business society People buy from People - thats whats important to me. Feeling comfortable with the people / person you are shaking hands with - The handshake is more important than the contract.

If only Carlsberg did LGV driver training hey. :laughing:

I also tend to favour advocates / recommedations as you can usually gauge the feedback and relationship between the trainee and the trainer. My gut feeling towards Peter Smythe is that he has a quality set up, very good training standards and he is clearly well respected within this forum. Another ingredient he has, is that he is knowledgeable, and has a passion for what he does. Bonus.

The question I asked about the time frame between start and finish in my previous email - was with the commute in mind.

I dont want to underestimate what is involved in driver training, any assessments, practical or theory tests as I would like to pass, fingers crossed, each programme first time every time as I know revision is just as important as the driving part to get me through each stage.

This is why this forum has somewhat become my guilty plessure - Strangers offering advice about my welfare. If only my company showed the same degree of humanity.

Unless, you are in fact the B&B Landlady…sorry :laughing:

15

Long time since I was called a Lady

Nope not a landlady at all a driver at that & as said worked in catering for 25 years so fat 17 in the transport industry 1st driving van’s then onto Cat C

Yep you defo want the best for your money totally agree as you will save in long run as they say buy cheap pay twice or no such thing as cheap

As Peter has said book an assessment with a few local & as you travel around see if you can book 1 with Peter or look here

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44667&p=503949#p503949

But just because they are not on that list dont mean they are not good

chevemac training are not far from you & are also on these boards you could go there have an assessment just so you get the feel for the providers who you will be working with see how you like them etc

16

Happy to quote you on the list below so far as I can. Items marked in red are not on offer. Practical courses run over 16 hours including test day. This is sufficient as the vehicles are purchased new and built to my own specification for training purposes. Quite different to a truck that has had a previous life.

LGV DRIVING ASSESSMENT

  • LGV MEDICAL FEE
  • HAZARD PERCEPTION TRAINING
  • THEORY TRAINING
  • HAZARD PERCEPTION TEST
  • THEORY TEST
  • LGV Category C Rigid Course — 20 hours including test day
  • DSA Driving Test Fee
  • LGV Category C+E Artic Course — 20 hours including test day
  • DSA Driving Test Fee
  • ADR DANGEROUS GOODS COURSE
  • FORK LIFT TRUCK DRIVER COURSE
  • HIAB COURSE
  • TACHOGRAPH COURSE
    I will also include the other 4 days of periodic cpc that you will need.
    B&B for the duration of the practical training

Total for the above, inclusive of VAT - Happy Christmas! - £2500 if booked before Christmas.

Will email a copy of this to the office so that they know the old fool has had yet another Senior Moment!

I would not advise commuting from Liverpool. Far better to accept our hospitality and spend some time relaxing.

Hope this helps, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

17

Then if going for your ADR may I suggest you contact dieseldave as he is " The Oracle " on the subject & he not that far from you in Ellesmere Port although he is a freelance trainer he is the best

He has had very few fails I would say his pass rate is 99.9%

18

Arguably, the easiest way for a newbie to go from their current job to a trucking job is thus :

  1. Stay employed with current company.
  2. Do LGV training and associated tests in spare time/holidays/weekends.
  3. When LGV licence arrives, bung it safely in the back of drawer for 2 years.
  4. 2 years later, quit job in summer, retrieve licence, get yourself a few hours refresher course.
  5. Go to all the agencies in the area and sign up.
  6. Blag them with some plausible story when they ask who you’ve been driving for (give them the tel# of a mate who will pretend to be transport manager for ficticious firm at opposite end of country).
  7. Point out that you’re a biy rusty as it’s been ~6 months since you did any real driving.
  8. Watch phone ring with job assignments.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

19

Rob K:
Arguably, the easiest way for a newbie to go from their current job to a trucking job is thus :

  1. Stay employed with current company.
  2. Do LGV training and associated tests in spare time/holidays/weekends.
  3. When LGV licence arrives, bung it safely in the back of drawer for 2 years.
  4. 2 years later, quit job in summer, retrieve licence, get yourself a few hours refresher course.
  5. Go to all the agencies in the area and sign up.
  6. Blag them with some plausible story when they ask who you’ve been driving for (give them the tel# of a mate who will pretend to be transport manager for ficticious firm at opposite end of country).
  7. Point out that you’re a bit rusty as it’s been ~6 months since you did any real driving.
  8. Watch phone ring with job assignments.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Fixed for you

Like your thinking & plan :laughing: :laughing:

20

Hi Pablo.

welcome to the forum, you have done the right thing to join up and ask the questions about the industry.

I am sorry to say that I think you would be insane to leave a job with such an unusually high annual salary to become a general dogsbody / kicking boy for between £6.50 and £9.75 per hour basic. Not to even mention the european Rules and regs. about driving hours and driver CPC.

However, I know that this wont put you off and you will most likely do all the training, start working with agencies, and see it how it really is after about 9 months or so.

So in these extremely difficult financial times, please do consider your family and mortgage and holidays and heating and nice car before you decide to earn your living in the industry. (A bit of jealousy creeping in there - oops).

You can always get a licence & DCPC and just do occasional days or weeks agency work to keep it enjoyable, but I dont know how your current full time job might allow that.

anyway, good luck with the journey and I hope your licence comes soon.

All the best

landylad