Hi guys…long time no post…
Was wondering if I could get some thoughts on this. As I write this, I’m currently sat at lymington waiting to catch the ferry to IOW. I done a similar run last week whereby I booked POA on both crossings. On my return back onto the mainland, I went and took a 45 minute break.
The next day I got pulled into the office and asked why I had done it that way. I said that as the ferry can sometimes only last 25 minutes, you should not use it for a driving break as it’s meant to be a period of uninterrupted rest.
He then proceeded to remind me of the rule that you can interupt a rest/break to get on and off a ferry…however, I always thought you could only interupt a daily rest, and not a driving break.
So…can you interupt a driving break to get on and off of a ferry, or is it only a daily rest you can interupt?
Take your break when you feel like it and not to suit the happy brigade at basingstoke. Would not matter what you do with the supermarkets they will always find something to moan about in the office!!
You, and the guy in the office, are confusing rest and break, they are different. Break can be taken in two parts if you wish, the first of at least 15 minutes and the second at least 30 minutes, so you can use the crossing as break. The interrupted rest when using the ferry is just that, rest not break, but you wouldn’t be interrupting your break, you would be taking it in two parts which is allowed.
The time now, while you are queuing waiting to board can also be break if you wish.
Well usually I would do it like that…but with a 36k job riding on it, before I start telling them how I should take my breaks, I want to know that I’m right 
I’ll be popping off an email to Vostapo to see what they say as well.
But just so you all know…I know the difference between rest and break, I just couldn’t be bothered for the argument as he wouldn’t back down. But my point was the ferry should only be booked as POA as sometimes they don’t even last 30 minutes.
Coffeholic is correct but with my recent activity and bust ups with your employers i wouldnt split my break for them again. They are two faced and only want you to take the break because they are running late and expect you to do the catch up for them!!
Just so you’re all aware, I’m talking about Sainsbury’s, not Keystone…just haven’t changed my avatar yet…but what did you do to ■■■■ them off?
And I can only claim the queuing as break if I’m told in advance that it’ll be a wait if at least 15, 30 or 45 minutes.
Adam_Mc:
But just so you all know…I know the difference between rest and break, I just couldn’t be bothered for the argument as he wouldn’t back down. But my point was the ferry should only be booked as POA as sometimes they don’t even last 30 minutes.
Actually booking it as POA wouldn’t be strictly correct, as you say you don’t know the duration, might be less than 30 minutes, might be more so it can’t really be POA. Also, do you stay with the vehicle or not? I have used that crossing but any other ferry I have been on you cannot and as you should be free to return to your workstation at any time for POA that kinda rules it out as well.
The fact the crossing lasts less than 30 minutes sometimes is irrelevant. A break can be any length of time, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 25 minutes or whatever but only breaks of at least 15 minutes will count toward the WTD or the first part of a tacho break, 30 minutes for the second part.
Adam_Mc:
And I can only claim the queuing as break if I’m told in advance that it’ll be a wait if at least 15, 30 or 45 minutes.
I know you said you know the difference between rest and break, but you did mix the terms up in your OP hence why I questioned it, but now you are definitely confusing break and POA. It’s for POA you must know the duration in advance not break. A break is simply a period when you do no driving, no other work and use the period for recuperation, you don’t need to know the length of time in advance.
I know you are talking about JS thats what i was commenting about. I have never worked for keystone 
I seen you in there one night but by time i came talk to you , you had departed! Never mind i will surprise you next time im in 
Again…I’m not confusing POA and break, but you need to know how long it’s going to be before you take it otherwise you might as well book it as POA just in case you’re interrupted…and I know strictly speaking I shouldn’t really book POA at all in this situation…but there’s timetables at the ports that give you an idea of how long things will take…my basic point is POA can be interrupted, but breaks can’t…so shove it on POA. And I’m allowed to stay in the cab. The only times we’re not allowed in the cab is if there’s ADR on board.
And how do you know who I am to be able to come and talk to me?..that’s kind of spooky :s lol
Well if you post pictures on here then thats why!! Not spooky , i just happened to be in the depot the day after the photos were posted and i remember you saying you were looking to work in JS. Anyway if you get a full time job there please dont turn your nose up on us poor agency drivers like most full timers do in that depot 
Adam_Mc:
Again…I’m not confusing POA and break, but you need to know how long it’s going to be before you take it otherwise you might as well book it as POA just in case you’re interrupted…and I know strictly speaking I shouldn’t really book POA at all in this situation…but there’s timetables at the ports that give you an idea of how long things will take…my basic point is POA can be interrupted, but breaks can’t…so shove it on POA. And I’m allowed to stay in the cab. The only times we’re not allowed in the cab is if there’s ADR on board.
Whether or not you are allowed to stay in the cab is not important as you can use either break or POA whilst sat in the cab.
As Coffeeholic has said there’s no reason why you can not put the tachograph on break whilst waiting to board the ferry or whilst you’re on the ferry so your office bod was correct even if he did confuse matters with the interrupted rest which is not relevant to this situation.
You do not need to know the length of the journey to use break and it does not matter if the break is interrupted and so does not last as long as you expected it to, if you put the tachograph on break and the journey lasts 25 minutes then assuming that you have not had a previous break the 25 minutes will count as a 15 minute first part of a split driving break.
If the company stop money for every minute of break that’s recorded I can see you’re point but if as most companies yours only stops you for 45 minutes then there’s no reason at all why you should not be using break regardless of whether the ferry journey lasts for 25 minutes or 35 minutes.
From your posts it seems that you are hoping to get a 36k permanent job at Sainsbury’s so to be honest I don’t understand why you would jeopardise that by refusing to take a break whilst on the ferry which would be perfectly legal 
colin.f.whitetrans:
Adam_Mc:
Ahhhh…ok, that makes sense then but if I manage to get a full time job, don’t worry…I won’t turn my nose up on agency drivers But I look forward to a little chat…I’m very curious about your little feud with JS
They have been a decent place for me to work but the only thing i hate is being told to take a split break when you have only done 2-3hrs work. I suppose they pay the bills so they call the shots so i must not grumble to much. All in all its a cushy number and not hard graft
That’s odd…the only times I’ve been asked to have a split break are just when going to IOW
Adam_Mc:
colin.f.whitetrans:
Adam_Mc:
Ahhhh…ok, that makes sense then but if I manage to get a full time job, don’t worry…I won’t turn my nose up on agency drivers But I look forward to a little chat…I’m very curious about your little feud with JS
They have been a decent place for me to work but the only thing i hate is being told to take a split break when you have only done 2-3hrs work. I suppose they pay the bills so they call the shots so i must not grumble to much. All in all its a cushy number and not hard graft
That’s odd…the only times I’ve been asked to have a split break are just when going to IOW
Sorry i should have said at other JS depots from where you are working. I just put the odd flying visit in to basi and have done for the last five years in a little ford focus
Adam_Mc:
Again…I’m not confusing POA and break, but you need to know how long it’s going to be before you take it otherwise you might as well book it as POA just in case you’re interrupted…and I know strictly speaking I shouldn’t really book POA at all in this situation…but there’s timetables at the ports that give you an idea of how long things will take…my basic point is POA can be interrupted, but breaks can’t…
Breaks can be interrupted. Stick it on break and if after 5 minutes something happens and you need to move the vehicle then that is 5 minutes break you have had, doesn’t count as a break for the tacho or WTD but it also doesn’t count as driving or other work so it will not go toward your 48 average/60 hour max WTD thing. If you have to interrupt your break between 15 and 44 minutes than that could be a 15 minute WTD break and the first part of a tacho 45 minute break, although interrupting it at close to 45 minutes would be a pain. I’ve been stuck in traffic on motorways or Autobahns and when it’s obvious the traffic is going nowhere for a while I kill the engine and stick it on break, no idea how long it will be but I might be, and often have been able to squeeze in a more than 15 minute, 30 minute, or even a full 45 minute break.
Coffeeholic:
Breaks can be interrupted. Stick it on break and if after 5 minutes something happens and you need to move the vehicle then that is 5 minutes break you have had, doesn’t count as a break for the tacho or WTD but it also doesn’t count as driving or other work so it will not go toward your 48 average/60 hour max WTD thing
Slightly confused here. If it doesn’t count as break under the WTD (as it is less than 15 minutes) and the mode isn’t set to POA it surely does count towards working time?
interlog:
Coffeeholic:
Breaks can be interrupted. Stick it on break and if after 5 minutes something happens and you need to move the vehicle then that is 5 minutes break you have had, doesn’t count as a break for the tacho or WTD but it also doesn’t count as driving or other work so it will not go toward your 48 average/60 hour max WTD thing
Slightly confused here. If it doesn’t count as break under the WTD (as it is less than 15 minutes) and the mode isn’t set to POA it surely does count towards working time?
Mark
Why? A break has to be at least 15 minutes to count as a required break under the WTD, 15 minutes is the minimum but a break of less that that is still a break and therefore not working time, you just can’t use it as part of the required breaks.
The directive first of all says:
The break times referred to in Article 5, the rest times referred to in Article 6 and, without prejudice to the legislation of Member States or agreements between the social partners providing that such periods should be compensated or limited, the periods of availability referred to in (b) of this Article, shall be excluded from working time;
This is what it says in article 5:
Breaks
1.Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that, without prejudice to the level of protection provided by Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 or, failing that, by the AETR Agreement, persons performing mobile road transport activities, without prejudice to Article 2(1), in no circumstances work for more than six consecutive hours without a break. Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours, and of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than nine hours.
2.Breaks may be subdivided into periods of at least 15 minutes each.
It says you can’t work more than 6 hours without a break and then goes on to say that such break needs to be at least 15 minutes.
Wouldn’t it therefore be logical to conclude that for the purposes of the directive a break has to be at least 15 minutes in order for it to count as a break?
The Directive - as far as I can see - doesn’t give a definition of the word break.
Why would the directive be explicit on the lenght of the break when it comes to needing one after 6 hours work but not in other circumstances?
The WTD regulations may not give a definition of “Break” but the drivers tachograph regulations (EC) 561/2006 does.
Article 4 (d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;
We know that for driving hours the shortest break that will count is 15 minutes and then only as the first part of the 45 minute break, likewise for the WTD only breaks of at least 15 minutes will count.
But any time that does not include driving or other work and can be used for recuperation can be used as break even if it’s only 5 minutes, it just wont count for either the WTD or the driving breaks if it’s less than 15 minutes but it also will not count as work.