yourhavingalarf:
I assume there’ll be…CCTV from the drivers cab?
I imagine it would be a standard fitment? I know that trams in Moscow have them, and Russia is far less obsessed with CCTV than the UK.
yourhavingalarf:
I assume there’ll be…CCTV from the drivers cab?
Oh yeah that will really help. It will show … tram travelling down track … and then … falling over… because said tram was going too fast
pierrot 14:
yourhavingalarf:
I assume there’ll be…CCTV from the drivers cab?
Oh yeah that will really help. It will show … tram travelling down track … and then … falling over… because said tram was going too fast
It will show weather or not driver attempted to brake which will also show weather he was actually in a ‘micro sleep’ or telling porkies.
It will show them how he drove the tram leading upto the derailment.
It would also show how fast it was going as I doubt these trams have data recorders on them like the big trains do . So yeah, they’ll gleen plenty of info from FFCCTV if its fitted. That’s a big If though.
Gembo:
pierrot 14:
yourhavingalarf:
I assume there’ll be…CCTV from the drivers cab?
Oh yeah that will really help. It will show … tram travelling down track … and then … falling over… because said tram was going too fast
It will show weather or not driver attempted to brake which will also show weather he was actually in a ‘micro sleep’ or telling porkies.
It will show them how he drove the tram leading upto the derailment.
It would also show how fast it was going as I doubt these trams have data recorders on them like the big trains do . So yeah, they’ll gleen plenty of info from FFCCTV if its fitted. That’s a big If though.
Mr Brown added a black box-style data recorder on the tram would be examined as part of the investigation.
Read more at croydonadvertiser.co.uk/tfl- … Fmj4pV6.99
I understand the guy was “typing a text message”. 
It’s about time this daft, dangerous, and illegal activity was stamped out once and for all.
7x6 years sentence for manslaughter should do it.
If the evidence is on a driver-facing camera - this guy is toast already. There’s no “trial” to be prejudiced here:
If the guy is daft enough not to plead guilty, then the CPS might chuck on “Conspiracy” to the charge sheet as well, plus “showing no remorse” having an effect on the judge dishing out any sentence. 
The Police have GOT to rigidly enforce fines for anyone photographed with their phone in their hand at the wheel of a moving vehicle. It’s not hard to do. So Let’s see the law already in place being enforced - before more people get killed.
These “Texting Killings” have become an epidemic already! 
Winseer:
I understand the guy was “typing a text message”.It’s about time this daft, dangerous, and illegal activity was stamped out once and for all.
7x6 years sentence for manslaughter should do it.
If the evidence is on a driver-facing camera - this guy is toast already. There’s no “trial” to be prejudiced here:
If the guy is daft enough not to plead guilty, then the CPS might chuck on “Conspiracy” to the charge sheet as well, plus “showing no remorse” having an effect on the judge dishing out any sentence.The Police have GOT to rigidly enforce fines for anyone photographed with their phone in their hand at the wheel of a moving vehicle. It’s not hard to do. So Let’s see the law already in place being enforced - before more people get killed.
These “Texting Killings” have become an epidemic already!
Source?
Texting allegation appears to originate with The Sun and Daily Fail tabloids.
Sent using smoke and mirrors
If that is a rumour rather than fact, then the press should be held in contempt.
Where’s the bloody camera footage?
If it exists, then someone has leaked it - and it IS fact.
If it doesn’t exist, then the rumour will probably prejudice the trial sufficiently that without that vital piece of damning evidence - this killer of seven will end up getting off!
Winseer:
If that is a rumour rather than fact, then the press should be held in contempt.Where’s the bloody camera footage?
The news reports say the allegations are based on examination of the phone.In which case maybe the thing records operation and time data. 
Winseer:
If that is a rumour rather than fact, then the press should be held in contempt.Where’s the bloody camera footage?
If it exists, then someone has leaked it - and it IS fact.
If it doesn’t exist, then the rumour will probably prejudice the trial sufficiently that without that vital piece of damning evidence - this killer of seven will end up getting off!
They don’t need camera footage - every text you send or receive is faithfully timestamped by the mobile phone network. In addition, forensic examination of the phone itself will also reveal when it was used (and what for).
Roymondo:
Winseer:
If that is a rumour rather than fact, then the press should be held in contempt.Where’s the bloody camera footage?
If it exists, then someone has leaked it - and it IS fact.
If it doesn’t exist, then the rumour will probably prejudice the trial sufficiently that without that vital piece of damning evidence - this killer of seven will end up getting off!They don’t need camera footage - every text you send or receive is faithfully timestamped by the mobile phone network. In addition, forensic examination of the phone itself will also reveal when it was used (and what for).
And also where the phone was, using cell tower triangulation- at the time of the Soham murders, the Police tried to trick the (at that point unknown) murderer into turning on one of the girls’ mobile phones so they could locate its position.
Surely any incriminating text that one might be in the middle of typing on a phone - is NOT going to be “sent” at which point all this time-stamping and data-recording can happen?
If the text is unsent, and then cleared on the phone itself - then there’s no record surely?
…unless the guy is a complete idiot of course.
I suppose there’s a school of thought that might say “If I suggest it was typing a text, I’ll get six years. If I say I’ve got undiagnozed sleep apnoea then it’s six years and a lifetime ban - not good for when I get out!”
The bigger implication on all this though - is what on earth does this tramline have right-angled bends in it for? - You wouldn’t get that on a normal rail line would you?
Winseer:
Surely any incriminating text that one might be in the middle of typing on a phone - is NOT going to be “sent” at which point all this time-stamping and data-recording can happen?If the text is unsent, and then cleared on the phone itself - then there’s no record surely?
…unless the guy is a complete idiot of course.
I suppose there’s a school of thought that might say “If I suggest it was typing a text, I’ll get six years. If I say I’ve got undiagnozed sleep apnoea then it’s six years and a lifetime ban - not good for when I get out!”
The bigger implication on all this though - is what on earth does this tramline have right-angled bends in it for? - You wouldn’t get that on a normal rail line would you?
Modern smartphones keep their own tabs on what has been typed, when programs (such as the Messaging App) were opened and closed, files read and written, just like a desktop computer. Forensic analysis of the phone will reveal a lot (especially if they start from the rather obvious situation where the half-written message was still on the phone’s screen when they seized it - which seems likely, given that “a source close to the investigation” apparently knows that this is what they are looking at).
Roymondo:
Winseer:
Surely any incriminating text that one might be in the middle of typing on a phone - is NOT going to be “sent” at which point all this time-stamping and data-recording can happen?If the text is unsent, and then cleared on the phone itself - then there’s no record surely?
…unless the guy is a complete idiot of course.
I suppose there’s a school of thought that might say “If I suggest it was typing a text, I’ll get six years. If I say I’ve got undiagnozed sleep apnoea then it’s six years and a lifetime ban - not good for when I get out!”
The bigger implication on all this though - is what on earth does this tramline have right-angled bends in it for? - You wouldn’t get that on a normal rail line would you?
Modern smartphones keep their own tabs on what has been typed, when programs (such as the Messaging App) were opened and closed, files read and written, just like a desktop computer. Forensic analysis of the phone will reveal a lot (especially if they start from the rather obvious situation where the half-written message was still on the phone’s screen when they seized it - which seems likely, given that “a source close to the investigation” apparently knows that this is what they are looking at).
This is what I was getting at when I said “Unless the guy is a complete idiot”. You’d think he’d ditch the phone, and say he was distracted by a naked women in the window in one of the many houses that these trams go past running through ordinary residential streets as they do. 2 years suspended for making a mistake, rather than a negligent act. Couldn’t bare to be parted with his beloved phone? - Well they’re not allowed in jail anyways, and I can’t see how he ain’t gonna end up going there now that there have been so many deaths over this avoidable incident. Good job for him that I’m not a judge I suppose, as I’d make the sentence six years per each to run consecutively - 42 years with a recommendation that he serve at least 20. 
Winseer:
The bigger implication on all this though - is what on earth does this tramline have right-angled bends in it for? - You wouldn’t get that on a normal rail line would you?
It’s not a normal railway line though; it’s a tramline, and trams are capable of taking tighter bends than normal trains, provided they take them slowly. All railway lines which have drivers rely on them keeping appropriate speeds and stopping at lights; bigger disasters have happened on main railway lines because of drivers passing signals at danger. The only way of eliminating them is to eliminate drivers, as on the Docklands Light Railway.
RAIB interim report has been published.
philgor:
RAIB interim report has been published.
43 mph was the speed and surprise surprise cctv wasn’t working
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Why this attempt to blatently come up with the notion that it’s “driver error” rather than “driver deliberate act of negligence” I wonder?
The victims are going to be shelled out with millions between them - regardless.
I don’t believe for a minute that the “in-camera wasn’t working”.
That was conspiracy theory for the day.
Winseer:
Why this attempt to blatently come up with the notion that it’s “driver error” rather than “driver deliberate act of negligence” I wonder?The victims are going to be shelled out with millions between them - regardless.
I don’t believe for a minute that the “in-camera wasn’t working”.
That was conspiracy theory for the day.
Have you read the report? Did you note the preface on the very first page?
It says
The purpose of a RAIB investigation is to improve safety by preventing future railway
and tramway accidents or by mitigating their consequences. It is not the purpose of
such an investigation to establish blame or liability. Accordingly, it is inappropriate
that RAIB reports should be used to assign fault or blame, or determine liability, since
neither the investigation nor the reporting process has been undertaken for that
purpose.
As they also clearly state, other bodies (Police and Office of Rail and Road (ORR)) are conducting their own investigations, which will look at negligence, culpability and liability.
Do not think the train company will ‘lose’ the cctv on purpose.
I drive buses with cctv, and plenty of times it is not working.