fairfuel uk

orys · 7 May 2012 18:12

war1974:
hello do oyu have any jobs? yes what are you looking for? oh anything mate i need a job. oh ok i have a start in a warehouse just doing general upkeep full time starting monday? oh do you have any flt work? yes do you have a flt licence? no can you not pay for it? no sorry do you want this job it pays x amount? oh no i get more on the dole and thats [zb]!) then you have a polish or foreign worker come in have you got any work i have x,y,z qualifications, to be honest all i have is warehouse flt and driving mate try x,y,z agency who do more specialized work? its ok i NEED to work to earn! that is the main difference with the attitude to work

OMG, so it’s not that I made it up? What carryfast will do now?

carryfast · 7 May 2012 22:34

war1974:
wow guys i have had to stop reading this as its becoming boring but decided to put my 2 pence in!

having worked in recruitment i HAVE had young people (british) come in looking for work, i have had young people go into nissan at sunderland work hard via the agency stay for months and have been taken on full time and earn good money and i mean decent wages for people with little or no qualifications! i have also had the other and in my own experience more common (hello do oyu have any jobs? yes what are you looking for? oh anything mate i need a job. oh ok i have a start in a warehouse just doing general upkeep full time starting monday? oh do you have any flt work? yes do you have a flt licence? no can you not pay for it? no sorry do you want this job it pays x amount? oh no i get more on the dole and thats [zb]!) then you have a polish or foreign worker come in have you got any work i have x,y,z qualifications, to be honest all i have is warehouse flt and driving mate try x,y,z agency who do more specialized work? its ok i NEED to work to earn! that is the main difference with the attitude to work! we have people on benefits breeding more people into the benefit culture young children having children.

and i totally agree with the benefits quote written above we have lots of people in this country who are desperate for the support of the benefits system they dont choose to be on it they need it!

Seems to me that it’s all the usual selective stereotypical stuff that would be expected from the British employer and foreign cheap labour worker side of the argument.It’s a lot more of those manufacturing type jobs that we need not the low paid zb service industry type jobs.BUT.If you’d ever spent some time working in a factory you’d know that wether it’s a skilled engineering job or relatively less skilled assembly line type operation every hour seems like three,or more,and then it’s just a case of wether someone can stand the grinding monotony of it all for a working life time but however long they stand it trust me they earn every last penny of those,what you call,‘good/decent’ wages.

In many cases those assembly line workers are also trained up to skilled engineer levels anyway depending on the type of demarcation policy which applies in the factory in question and contrary to the propaganda of the time during the 1970’s there were as many factories where such demarcation didn’t apply as those where it did.In which case,as in my case,you could find yourself doing a mixture of sheet metal work,fabrication and welding,and machining in addition to actual assembly work all in the course of a day’s work.

I’d suggest that you should check out exactly what is required to earn that ‘good’ ‘decent’ money but I’ve always seen it as an assembly line worker is worth as much,if not more,as anyone else and certainly more than anyone involved with just unproductive recruitment or other office positions.

However I think Boris Johnson’s bs has now shown the Tory zb’s true colours and now British workers really know where they stand.It’s a case of cheap rate foreign workers who are willing to sell their services for typically cut price wages that match their expectations,developed by years of subservience to their commy masters,and British employers wanting to take advantage of that situation under the mistaken idea that it will put the British economy back where it was during the 19th century,at least from the employers’ point of view.When what it will actually do is just sink the domestic economy even faster.However it’s no surprise that the zb waited until he’d just scraped through to win an election before raising the issue of ‘lazy’ ‘overpaid’ British workers who need to compete with their east european etc competitors if they want a job.

As for the social security system the fact is it’s impossible to mix a socialist based social security system and NHS with a capitalist economy.The truth is it’s a self preservation society and there’s no such thing as a free lunch.It’s just a case of the unions needing to get wage levels up to a level whereby people can afford to make their own arrangements to insure themselves and their families.However as we’ve seen the employers are happy enough to take on board all the zb aspects of socialism when it suits them wether that’s hiring imported cheap labour from so called ‘reformed’ ex communist east european countries and/or subsidising zb wages with a rationed third rate socialist type so called social security and NHS system.The fact that ‘some’ people’ ‘might’ be better off on benefits than working,says more about the zb levels that wages have been eroded down to,than the idea that anyone could possibly be better off on the zb levels of benefit payments (assuming that they even qualify) than doing a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay.

orys · 7 May 2012 22:41

So much rubbish and still you completely evaded the question of the work attitude - propably because this is the answer to my question that you always evade to answer

As for our funny off-topic I just found nice movie a’propos handling:

Have to say that I had chance to play with Trabant once on the track, but the one with VW Polo engine, and untamed, so it had nearly four times as much power as the classic trabant - great fun. You go every bend on three wheels and you still feel in control Don’t look too much into all these crashes, this is footage from amateur rally

carryfast · 7 May 2012 22:54

orys:
So much rubbish and still you completely evaded the question of the work attitude - propably because this is the answer to my question that you always evade to answer

It seems a bit strange that immigrants and the Tory zb’s complain about stereotyping when it’s the British making negative comparisons concerning foreigners but it all seems to be ok when it’s the Tory zb’s and foreign workers making stereotypical comments concerning British indigenous workers.The fact is it’s all happened before when it was immigrant so called ‘commonwealth’ workers brought here to keep wage levels down now it’s east european ones.The fact is it’s all about cheap labour and has absolutely zb all to do with the ‘work attitude’ of British workers in general.

orys · 7 May 2012 22:58

I am not talking about stereotypes, I am talking about facts - as observed by the fellow forum member in his line of work.

carryfast · 7 May 2012 23:16

orys:
I am not talking about stereotypes, I am talking about facts - as observed by the fellow forum member in his line of work.

As I said it’s just a case of selective stereotyping regardless of who it is who’s making the comparisons.However the fact is it had zb all to do with ‘workers’ attitudes when those ‘commonwealth immigrants were brought in’ just as it’s got zb all to do with British workers’ attitudes now.No surprise that the British employers and immigrant workers wouldn’t be turkeys voting for christmas by admitting that it’s all about wanting to take advantage of the advantages of living and working in Britain,compared to their own countries,from the point of view of the immigrants,and it’s all about taking advantage of the (short term self interest ) financial benefits,of oversupply of the labour market,from the point of view of the British employers.It doesn’t take a genius to realise that Boris Johnson’s ‘enquiry’ will obviously be rigged,to exclude those home truths,by putting the blame on the ‘attitude’ of British workers,in not competing with the immigrant workforce.

orys · 7 May 2012 23:30

Carryfast:

orys:
I am not talking about stereotypes, I am talking about facts - as observed by the fellow forum member in his line of work.

As I said it’s just a case of selective stereotyping regardless of who it is who’s making the comparisons.However the fact is it had zb all to do with ‘workers’ attitudes when those ‘commonwealth immigrants were brought in’ just as it’s got zb all to do with British workers’ attitudes now.No surprise that the British employers and immigrant workers wouldn’t be turkeys voting for christmas by admitting that it’s all about wanting to take advantage of the advantages of living and working in Britain,compared to their own countries,from the point of view of the immigrants,and it’s all about taking advantage of the (short term self interest ) financial benefits,of oversupply of the labour market,from the point of view of the British employers.It doesn’t take a genius to realise that Boris Johnson’s ‘enquiry’ will obviously be rigged,to exclude those home truths,by putting the blame on the ‘attitude’ of British workers,in not competing with the immigrant workforce.

Blah blah blah. But he dis not offered lower wages to foreign workers, did he?

So if the facts show you are wrong, that Foreign workers are employed not because they are cheaper, but because they are better qualified and willing to work, that’s stereotypes and that is not valid. Typical for you

carryfast · 7 May 2012 23:58

orys:

Carryfast:

orys:
I am not talking about stereotypes, I am talking about facts - as observed by the fellow forum member in his line of work.

As I said it’s just a case of selective stereotyping regardless of who it is who’s making the comparisons.However the fact is it had zb all to do with ‘workers’ attitudes when those ‘commonwealth immigrants were brought in’ just as it’s got zb all to do with British workers’ attitudes now.No surprise that the British employers and immigrant workers wouldn’t be turkeys voting for christmas by admitting that it’s all about wanting to take advantage of the advantages of living and working in Britain,compared to their own countries,from the point of view of the immigrants,and it’s all about taking advantage of the (short term self interest ) financial benefits,of oversupply of the labour market,from the point of view of the British employers.It doesn’t take a genius to realise that Boris Johnson’s ‘enquiry’ will obviously be rigged,to exclude those home truths,by putting the blame on the ‘attitude’ of British workers,in not competing with the immigrant workforce.

Blah blah blah. But he dis not offered lower wages to foreign workers, did he?

So if the facts show you are wrong, that Foreign workers are employed not because they are cheaper, but because they are better qualified and willing to work, that’s stereotypes and that is not valid. Typical for you

It’s got zb all to do with foreign workers actually taking a directly lower wage because that would contravene the minimum wage laws as they stand (at present).However the relevant bit is the effect immigrant labour has on the supply/demand equation in the domestic labour market.Which obviously means lower wage levels in the case of oversupply whereas it would mean higher wages in the case of undersupply.There’s absolutely no case for immigrant labour in a situation where the labour market isn’t at least in a massive unsustainable undersupply situation let alone one of continuing and increasing immigrant labour in an already oversupply situation.

But as for better qualified.How can immigrant labour be ‘better’ qualified when British workers who manage to emigrate to other countries are considered as unqualified because British qualifications aren’t recognised in places like Canada or Australia so have to start at the bottom and in the case of other jobs like truck driving a British driver is just as ‘qualified’ as a foreign one depending on licencing category.

However bs Boris’ suggestion that ‘British’ workers aren’t ‘willing to work’ is a stereotypical generalisation based on nationality not individual merit,which would probably be illegal under present uk employment law.Therefore if an employer was to use such a reason,to exclude a British worker v a foreign one,you can bet that the zb wouldn’t be prepared to put that in writing as a reason for refusing a British worker a job on that basis.In just the same way as if I was to refuse a Polish worker a job on the grounds that I don’t believe that it’s right to employ Polish workers while British ones are on the dole.

orys · 8 May 2012 00:20

Blah blah blah… Just more pseudo - intellectual barking. As usual aside from the question. But I will answer anyway, as I have today day of doing nothing useful

When I came here in 2005 and later in 2006 with my fresh cat. C license, I could have any job I wanted and I was NEVER paid less than my British collegues.
So either there was not enough British workers around, or they werent’ willing to work.

Moreover, in my career I was overed HIGHER wages than others (but can’t tell where as this was part of the deal, but it was in three places). So obviously the employers were willing to pay more for a good worker.

As for qualifications: I just tell you how my first ever job interview looked like:

Can you drive in big cities?
Yes, I do.
What big cities you were driving in?
Well, I start with capital cities: Warszawa, Paris, Vienna, Sofia, Budapest, Zagreb, Belgrad, Istanbul…
Oh my god, have you really driven car in Istanbul?
Yes, and in Ankara and Asian part of Turkey as well
OMG that’s amazing, how is to drive in Turkey?
[me telling him stories for 10 minutes or so]
Oh, I see, so obviously if you were able to drive there, you can drive everywhere. But have you ever been to London?
No, London is one of the capitals I haven’t been yet.
That’s a shame - see, there is a rule in our company that only British experience is relevant, so since you haven’t been driving in London, I can’t put that you were driving in big cities.

So much for qualifications

But off course that was not a problem - first offer to go full time I had after three weeks of working for Driver Hire (which made it about 3 week and 2 days of my lorry driving experience ). I think that proves how big demand for drivers was back there. Because if I was employer, I would for sure not seeking to employ some Polish guy with barely any experience, who don’t know Glasgow and who can’t speak good English, especially if I had to pay him the same money as to my other drivers.

In theory Polish qualifications should be recognized here. In practice - no employer bothers with them. I guess this is due to that they have attitude like yours and they don’t trust people from wild country and don’t want to emply them when British people are on the dole… But somehow these people on the dole don’t have enough of qualifications or don’t have will to work - therefore they end to employ Polish workers anyway… Don’t blame us for that

carryfast · 8 May 2012 00:32

orys:
Blah blah blah… Just more pseudo - intellectual barking. As usual aside from the question. But I will answer anyway, as I have today day of doing nothing useful

When I came here in 2005 and later in 2006 with my fresh cat. C license, I could have any job I wanted and I was NEVER paid less than my British collegues.
So either there was not enough British workers around, or they werent’ willing to work.

Moreover, in my career I was overed HIGHER wages than others (but can’t tell where as this was part of the deal, but it was in three places). So obviously the employers were willing to pay more for a good worker.

As for qualifications: I just tell you how my first ever job interview looked like:

Can you drive in big cities?

Yes, I do.

What big cities you were driving in?

Well, I start with capital cities: Warszawa, Paris, Vienna, Sofia, Budapest, Zagreb, Belgrad, Istanbul…

Oh my god, have you really driven car in Istanbul?

Yes, and in Ankara and Asian part of Turkey as well

OMG that’s amazing, how is to drive in Turkey?

[me telling him stories for 10 minutes or so]

Oh, I see, so obviously if you were able to drive there, you can drive everywhere. But have you ever been to London?

No, London is one of the capitals I haven’t been yet.

That’s a shame - see, there is a rule in our company that only British experience is relevant, so since you haven’t been driving in London, I can’t put that you were driving in big cities.

So much for qualifications

But off course that was not a problem - first offer to go full time I had after three weeks of working for Driver Hire (which made it about 3 week and 2 days of my lorry driving experience ). I think that proves how big demand for drivers was back there. Because if I was employer, I would for sure not seeking to employ some Polish guy with barely any experience, who don’t know Glasgow and who can’t speak good English, especially if I had to pay him the same money as to my other drivers.

In theory Polish qualifications should be recognized here. In practice - no employer bothers with them. I guess this is due to that they have attitude like yours and they don’t trust people from wild country and don’t want to emply them when British people are on the dole… But somehow these people on the dole don’t have enough of qualifications or don’t have will to work - therefore they end to employ Polish workers anyway… Don’t blame us for that

Orys it’s not just about Polish workers it’s a question of immigrant workers in general.As I’ve said the idea is nothing new here ( years ago it was immigrants from the so called ‘Commonwealth’ now it’s immigrants from the so called EU amongst other places and it’s all about rigging the supply side of the labour market supply/demand equation in favour of the employers and the employers aren’t going to wreck that idea by not employing the immigrant labour when they’ve got it here.Simples.

orys · 8 May 2012 01:03

Carryfast:
Orys it’s not just about Polish workers it’s a question of immigrant workers in general.As I’ve said the idea is nothing new here ( years ago it was immigrants from the so called ‘Commonwealth’ now it’s immigrants from the so called EU amongst other places and it’s all about rigging the supply side of the labour market supply/demand equation in favour of the employers and the employers aren’t going to wreck that idea by not employing the immigrant labour when they’ve got it here.Simples.

Which bring us to my original question: why on earth any employer would employ WORSE worker if he had to pay him the same money?

carryfast · 8 May 2012 01:55

orys:

Carryfast:
Orys it’s not just about Polish workers it’s a question of immigrant workers in general.As I’ve said the idea is nothing new here ( years ago it was immigrants from the so called ‘Commonwealth’ now it’s immigrants from the so called EU amongst other places and it’s all about rigging the supply side of the labour market supply/demand equation in favour of the employers and the employers aren’t going to wreck that idea by not employing the immigrant labour when they’ve got it here.Simples.

Which bring us to my original question: why on earth any employer would employ WORSE worker if he had to pay him the same money?

I don’t think that I’ve made any case about anyone being a ‘worse worker’. It’s all about times being tough and the economy being in a zb situation.Therefore the labour market is in a position of already being oversupplied with domestic workers with the obvious effects which that has on domestic wage levels.We’ve also got the situation of a massive trade and resulting economic deficit caused by too many imports and too few exports.

We won’t fix that problem by bringing in even more immigrant workers to add to the oversupply problems in the labour market,for those few jobs which we’ve got,thereby putting even more downward pressure on wage levels and thereby reducing tax revenues and disposable incomes even more,while the added population puts up the costs of the social security and NHS and increases demand for housing.

We also won’t fix the deficit by continuing to import loads of goods that we could make for ourselves.By shutting off such imports we could get more people into work and with the resulting demand in the labour market we’d have higher wages so people could spend more on goods made here which would strengthen demand even more which would create even more employment opportunities etc etc etc.

Which just leaves the Polish and all the rest to do exactly the same thing in their own countries using all that know how and hard work of their brilliant workers to make their own countries great instead of keeping on zb bothering us.

orys · 8 May 2012 02:01

Carryfast:
I don’t think that I’ve made any case about anyone being a ‘worse worker’. It’s all about times being tough and the economy being in a zb situation.Therefore the labour market is in a position of already being oversupplied with domestic workers with the obvious effects which that has on domestic wage levels.We’ve also got the situation of a massive trade and resulting economic deficit caused by too many imports and too few exports.

You are so sneaky.

I will try once again:

If the market is oversupplied by domestic workers, who speak perfect English and have lot of experience, how is that the foreigner with poor English, no experience and no local knowledge can find the job no problem even though he has to be paid the same as local workers?

Which just leaves the Polish and all the rest to do exactly the same thing in their own countries using all that know how and hard work of their brilliant workers to make their own countries great instead of keeping on zb bothering us.

Yeah, the brain drain is a big problem for Poland and such. It’s Poland that pays for all this education and then its put to use in other countries.

carryfast · 8 May 2012 13:28

orys:

Carryfast:
I don’t think that I’ve made any case about anyone being a ‘worse worker’. It’s all about times being tough and the economy being in a zb situation.Therefore the labour market is in a position of already being oversupplied with domestic workers with the obvious effects which that has on domestic wage levels.We’ve also got the situation of a massive trade and resulting economic deficit caused by too many imports and too few exports.

You are so sneaky.

I will try once again:

If the market is oversupplied by domestic workers, who speak perfect English and have lot of experience, how is that the foreigner with poor English, no experience and no local knowledge can find the job no problem even though he has to be paid the same as local workers?

Which just leaves the Polish and all the rest to do exactly the same thing in their own countries using all that know how and hard work of their brilliant workers to make their own countries great instead of keeping on zb bothering us.

Yeah, the brain drain is a big problem for Poland and such. It’s Poland that pays for all this education and then its put to use in other countries.

Which part of all those numerous previous posts didn’t you understand.

I’ve explained enough times that the immigrant labour issue here is all about the employers and their supporters in the government wanting to rig the domestic labour market by oversupplying it.In which case those employers aren’t then going to be stupid enough to then cancel all that out by not employing those immigrant workers when they’ve got them here.Which explains the situation as to why we’ve got British workers unemployed and immigrant ones getting what few jobs we do have at a lower wage rate than would be the case if we had a closed door immigration policy and protected labour market.Because what’s needed for a strong economy is the opposite situation of what we’ve got now.So instead of oversupply and low wages we’d have undersupply and strong demand for labour which would have the effect of higher wages and higher disposable incomes.Which just leaves the other issue of closing the market to imports of stuff that we can be making for ourselves.

If,as you’ve said,the ‘brain drain’ is harming the Polish economy and considering that Polish workers all seem to be such perfect workers,then why the zb don’t the Polish all zb off home,together with all the other foreign immigrants,that we’ve taken in over the years to rig our labour market,and turn their own countries into the type of place which no one would want to leave to work somewhere else.Like the Germans and the Swiss (and the Americans at least during those peak years of the 1960’s) have done over the years etc etc. .

orys · 8 May 2012 13:38

Carryfast:
Which part of all those numerous previous posts didn’t you understand.

I understand what you are trying to say, I just know that most of them are rubbish.

And it’s not me that ignored clearly written question again only because answer is not the one I would be keen to admit

blah blah blah immigrant ones getting what few jobs we do have at a lower wage rate blah blah blah

orys:
If the market is oversupplied by domestic workers, who speak perfect English and have lot of experience, how is that the foreigner with poor English, no experience and no local knowledge can find the job no problem even though he has to be paid the same as local workers?

Which part ot this causes you problems?

carryfast:
If,as you’ve said,the ‘brain drain’ is harming the Polish economy and considering that Polish workers all seem to be such perfect workers,then why the zb don’t the Polish all zb off home,together with all the other foreign immigrants,that we’ve taken in over the years to rig our labour market,and turn their own countries into the type of place which no one would want to leave to work somewhere else.Like the Germans and the Swiss (and the Americans at least during those peak years of the 1960’s) have done over the years etc etc. .

For the same reason why all of you were emigrating when you had better deals abroad.

carryfast · 8 May 2012 14:24

orys:

Carryfast:
Which part of all those numerous previous posts didn’t you understand.

I understand what you are trying to say, I just know that most of them are rubbish.

And it’s not me that ignored clearly written question again only because answer is not the one I would be keen to admit

blah blah blah immigrant ones getting what few jobs we do have at a lower wage rate blah blah blah

orys:
If the market is oversupplied by domestic workers, who speak perfect English and have lot of experience, how is that the foreigner with poor English, no experience and no local knowledge can find the job no problem even though he has to be paid the same as local workers?

Which part ot this causes you problems?

carryfast:
If,as you’ve said,the ‘brain drain’ is harming the Polish economy and considering that Polish workers all seem to be such perfect workers,then why the zb don’t the Polish all zb off home,together with all the other foreign immigrants,that we’ve taken in over the years to rig our labour market,and turn their own countries into the type of place which no one would want to leave to work somewhere else.Like the Germans and the Swiss (and the Americans at least during those peak years of the 1960’s) have done over the years etc etc. .

For the same reason why all of you were emigrating when you had better deals abroad.

You obviously didn’t (or don’t want to) understand what I’ve said at all.

(1) The reason why foreign immigrant labour gets employed while British workers don’t is because,as I’ve said,the employers would just defeat the object of the excercise,in bringing immigrant workers in to oversupply the market,if the employers then didn’t employ them wherever possible.Because it doesn’t take a genius to realise that if the immigrant labour doesn’t find jobs they’d then probably zb off home in which case the employers would be back where they started.

(2).Lower wages yes.In the sense that,as I’ve said,wage levels ‘would’ obviously be higher ‘if’ we had a closed door protected labour market that is under supplied not over supplied with labour relative to demand.

However it’s more often been the case that British labour can’t emigrate to get a ‘better’ deal abroad than ever could.Just as in my case during the 1980’s when I tried to do exactly that and ran up against the type of closed door labour market that I’m saying we need now.At best it would have been a case of the job had to remain advertised and if an indigenous worker wanted the job I had to go home that was assuming a work visa would have been granted which was turned down anyway.

orys · 8 May 2012 14:32

Carryfast:
You obviously didn’t (or don’t want to) understand what I’ve said at all.

(1) The reason why foreign immigrant labour gets employed while British workers don’t is because,as I’ve said,the employers would just defeat the object of the excercise,in bringing immigrant workers in to oversupply the market,if the employers then didn’t employ them wherever possible.Because it doesn’t take a genius to realise that if the immigrant labour doesn’t find jobs they’d then probably zb off home in which case the employers would be back where they started.

(2).Lower wages yes.In the sense that,as I’ve said,wage levels ‘would’ obviously be higher ‘if’ we had a closed door protected labour market that is under supplied not over supplied with labour relative to demand.

Yeah, you obviously can’t answer that question, so you move towards abuse.

The sneaky answer you delivered this time still don’t answer the question in microscale, as I asked it. Do you really think that some owner of cleaning company is as far fetched as that “Oh, If I won’t employ this Polish lass today, they will all go home and in 10 years I will have to pay them one quid more per hour”

this is as ridiculous as the rest of your rubbish

carryfast · 8 May 2012 14:41

orys:

Carryfast:
You obviously didn’t (or don’t want to) understand what I’ve said at all.

(1) The reason why foreign immigrant labour gets employed while British workers don’t is because,as I’ve said,the employers would just defeat the object of the excercise,in bringing immigrant workers in to oversupply the market,if the employers then didn’t employ them wherever possible.Because it doesn’t take a genius to realise that if the immigrant labour doesn’t find jobs they’d then probably zb off home in which case the employers would be back where they started.

(2).Lower wages yes.In the sense that,as I’ve said,wage levels ‘would’ obviously be higher ‘if’ we had a closed door protected labour market that is under supplied not over supplied with labour relative to demand.

Yeah, you obviously can’t answer that question, so you move towards abuse.

The sneaky answer you delivered this time still don’t answer the question in microscale, as I asked it. Do you really think that some owner of cleaning company is as far fetched as that “Oh, If I won’t employ this Polish lass today, they will all go home and in 10 years I will have to pay them one quid more per hour”

this is as ridiculous as the rest of your rubbish

There was nothing abusive in any of that.

I’m saying it’s more a collective decision made amongst the employers which needs to be because without that guarantee of work the whole issue of immigrant labour couldn’t possibly work.

As for the Polish lass who cares so she’d be happy if we at least brought in a rule that if she gets the job it has to remain advertised and if a British lass wants it then she gets it and the Polish lass has to go home .Are you supportive of that idea or not .

If not why not,assuming that it would at least shoot down your bs idea that it’s all about the fact that British workers don’t want to work and in which case the Polish worker has zb all to worry about.

orys · 8 May 2012 14:57

Carryfast:
There was nothing abusive in any of that.

I am sorry, I thought that if you suggest that I am too dull to understand something is abusive. Sorry if that was too far fetched.

I’m saying it’s more a collective decision made amongst the employers which needs to be because without that guarantee of work the whole issue of immigrant labour couldn’t possibly work.

You see, again you put different measure to UK and to EE.

On one hand you see that despite the immigrants know that them being here is not good for their homeland. On the other hand you assume that British employers do some far fetched calculations what’s better for their country…

Off course it’s ■■■■■■■■. Just as all Easterners here are looking only into what’s is the best thing for them, just the same British employers don’t look that far fetched. Because they need to run their business here and now.

As for the Polish lass who cares so she’d be happy if we at least brought in a rule that if she gets the job it has to remain advertised and if a British lass wants it then she gets it and the Polish lass has to go home .Are you supportive of that idea or not .

Of course not. This idea is ridiculous both for worker and an employee. Employee need some stability (and cannot be discriminated only because of his place of origin). If he or she signs contract, the contract cannot be broken only because some Briton suddenly turns up. Employer will be also affected: there is noone British to take the post. He need the worker here and now, so he employs the Pole and then suddenly some Briton turns up and he has to sack good employee that he invested in training him for the job etc to employ someone completely green…

If not why not,assuming that it would at least shoot down your bs idea that it’s all about the fact that British workers don’t want to work and in which case the Polish worker has zb all to worry about.

Can’t see the relation. As I proved several times (indirectly off course, but that you avoid to answer my question for so long speaks for itself) if the British workers would be more keen to work, there would be no place for foreign workers. Obviously though Eastern European workers have some advantages that makes them attractive to employers.

I don’t know if you noticed, I noticed that over my 6 years of living here: Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Lithuanian etc workers can be found pretty much everywhere. Pakistani, Indian workers mostly work for Pakistani-Indian companies, corner shops, take aways etc., it’s a rarity to see one of them driving truck for example. Or to work in warehouse. Or on a construction site… And we could assume that for Pakistani, who, as someone mentioned already in this or some other thread, have even lower expectations than these alleged expectations of Eastern European, they would be even more attractive to British employer if, as you state, the money is the only factor…

carryfast · 8 May 2012 16:17

orys:

Carryfast:
There was nothing abusive in any of that.

I am sorry, I thought that if you suggest that I am too dull to understand something is abusive. Sorry if that was too far fetched.

I’m saying it’s more a collective decision made amongst the employers which needs to be because without that guarantee of work the whole issue of immigrant labour couldn’t possibly work.

You see, again you put different measure to UK and to EE.

On one hand you see that despite the immigrants know that them being here is not good for their homeland. On the other hand you assume that British employers do some far fetched calculations what’s better for their country…

Off course it’s [zb]. Just as all Easterners here are looking only into what’s is the best thing for them, just the same British employers don’t look that far fetched. Because they need to run their business here and now.

As for the Polish lass who cares so she’d be happy if we at least brought in a rule that if she gets the job it has to remain advertised and if a British lass wants it then she gets it and the Polish lass has to go home .Are you supportive of that idea or not .

Of course not. This idea is ridiculous both for worker and an employee. Employee need some stability (and cannot be discriminated only because of his place of origin). If he or she signs contract, the contract cannot be broken only because some Briton suddenly turns up. Employer will be also affected: there is noone British to take the post. He need the worker here and now, so he employs the Pole and then suddenly some Briton turns up and he has to sack good employee that he invested in training him for the job etc to employ someone completely green…

If not why not,assuming that it would at least shoot down your bs idea that it’s all about the fact that British workers don’t want to work and in which case the Polish worker has zb all to worry about.

Can’t see the relation. As I proved several times (indirectly off course, but that you avoid to answer my question for so long speaks for itself) if the British workers would be more keen to work, there would be no place for foreign workers. Obviously though Eastern European workers have some advantages that makes them attractive to employers.

I don’t know if you noticed, I noticed that over my 6 years of living here: Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Lithuanian etc workers can be found pretty much everywhere. Pakistani, Indian workers mostly work for Pakistani-Indian companies, corner shops, take aways etc., it’s a rarity to see one of them driving truck for example. Or to work in warehouse. Or on a construction site… And we could assume that for Pakistani, who, as someone mentioned already in this or some other thread, have even lower expectations than these alleged expectations of Eastern European, they would be even more attractive to British employer if, as you state, the money is the only factor…

I think that reply says everything about the whole bs situation.On one hand you’re saying that the British don’t want to work so we give the jobs to foreign immigrant labour instead.Then you conveniently change the argument to one of discrimination when someone says if it’s all about the Brits not wanting the job then let’s leave the job advertised and if a Brit wants it then the Brit gets it and the foreign worker has to go home.

It makes no difference that the British worker might be an untrained worker nor wether the employer has invested time in training the foreign worker in the job.The fact is the foreign worker shouldn’t have been here in the first place when there’s British workers,wether trained or not, who need a job and in an environment where we’ve already got oversupply in the labour market,let alone the under supply situation that we need to provide the growth in wage levels and disposable incomes,to get the economy growing instead of collapsing.

The issue of the Asian community is just another stereotypical red herring.Ther are sections of the Asian community that work in many different sectors of the economy.However what they do have in common with all the other types of immigrant workforce is that they add demand for housing and social security and health provision and add supply and capacity to the labour market which lowers tax revenues and income levels and removed/s job opportunities for the indigenous workforce.British cab drivers would have had a lot more opportunities and would be earning more for example if there were no Asian cab drivers for example just as there would have been more job opportunities and higher wage levels in public transport like the bus service jobs over the years if there’d been no immigrant workers brought in from the other parts of the so called ‘Commonwealth’ like Jamaica.However the situation would have been balanced more if British workers could have gone to other parts of the commonwealth in that case to drive cabs and buses in Canada and Australia which they couldn’t.

So as I’ve said it’s all a big con put up by the British employers and the government to over supply the British labour market to keep wage levels down.As I’ve said if foreign workers are so good and British workers are so bad then how is it that Britain seems to have been turned by those same useless British workers into a country where foreign workers want to live while those so called ‘better’ foreign workers only seem to have managed to turn their own countries into places that they wanted to leave and not return to .