I don’t think there was ever an opt-out for the Mobile workers WTD - or RTD as we should call it.
Overtime will depend on the contract I think rather than a stautory law.
The law will uphold what is written in the contract
ROG:
I don’t think there was ever an opt-out for the Mobile workers WTD - or RTD as we should call it.Overtime will depend on the contract I think rather than a stautory law.
The law will uphold what is written in the contract
The problem is so many contracts are actually illegal, but nothing is ever done about them as they’re never challenged. The only reason I know about this overtime stuff is because I nearly took a company to court when they tried to dismiss me for gross misconduct…I walked out one time because I didn’t want to do overtime when they tried forcing me me to…Before I could take them to court I was offered another job and so just left, that way they didn’t sack me and I couldn’t take them to court 
But it is statute law that it is up to an employee if they want to do overtime or not…No employer can make you do overtime, even if it’s in the contract, hence why many contracts are illegal.
Adam_Mc:
But it is statute law that it is up to an employee if they want to do overtime or not…No employer can make you do overtime, even if it’s in the contract, hence why many contracts are illegal.
I have often seen ‘May need to work extra hours when necessary’ or sinilar in contracts - is that illegal?
ROG:
Adam_Mc:
But it is statute law that it is up to an employee if they want to do overtime or not…No employer can make you do overtime, even if it’s in the contract, hence why many contracts are illegal.I have often seen ‘May need to work extra hours when necessary’ or sinilar in contracts - is that illegal?
Technically yes…If you want to get paid for the extra hours but don’t get paid then the contract is illegal. The only way for a company to get around this is if the employee agrees on another peice of paper, forming the same contract, that they’ll do the extra hours on a “voluntary” basis.
“May need to work extra hours when necessary” usually means you’ll work an average of 37 hours a week but may be asked to work 40 hour weeks now and then, of which you’ll still be paid. They only way it’ll be legal to not be paid for extra hours is by signing yet another form.
This is why people don’t challange their contracts, there’s so many laws that people just don’t know where to start…and trying to find the information is so hard as well…took me weeks to get everything together for my case!
Adam_Mc:
Ok guys and girls…I’ve recently had a similar discussion with somebody else on a very similar note.You did used to be able to opt of a 48 hour week but over the past couple of years its a no no!
There has never been an opt out of the 48-hour limit in the WTD for mobile workers. The opt out was, and still is for the moment, in the WTD for regular folk which doesn’t apply to us.
Coffeeholic:
Adam_Mc:
Ok guys and girls…I’ve recently had a similar discussion with somebody else on a very similar note.You did used to be able to opt of a 48 hour week but over the past couple of years its a no no!
There has never been an opt out of the 48-hour limit in the WTD for mobile workers. The opt out was, and still is for the moment, in the WTD for regular folk which doesn’t apply to us.
The only reason I said that is because I’ve not had my licence that long, so I’m unaware of previous laws. As you said, the ‘opt out’ is available to average folk. When I had my legal battle with my old workplace, the opt out was available, but it wasn’t for driving though 
I’m a bit drunk at the moment so I hope you understand what I’m writing.
Adam_Mc:
When I had my legal battle with my old workplace, the opt out was available, but it wasn’t for driving though
Which means it was over a set of regulations that don’t apply then.
The text below is taken from the official ruling on the VOSA site, here: vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 49bb4d882a
As you can see the only flexibility is on extending the reference period up to 6 months and for night drivers to opt out of the 10 hour shift maximum. Not being mobile workers office staff can still opt out of the 48 hour week.
"Additional flexibility is allowed if a collective agreement or a
workforce agreement at company level (between the employer
and employees) is in place. This would allow:
a) The reference period for calculating the average 48-
hour week to be extended to 6 months, and
b) The 10 hour night work limit to be exceeded - although
mobile workers will still have to respect the rest
requirements under the EU drivers’ hours rules.
Any statutory leave has to be a notional calculation of
eight hours per day or 48 hours per week added to the
calculation over the reference period."
On the subject of unpaid overtime, our contract states " you may be required to work a reasonable amount of unpaid overtime to suit the business needs"
This is legal because you sign to accept it on induction, you don’t have to sign it but then they don’t have to give you the job…
Long office hours are the norm in transport but the overall package should be always taken into account when comparing with other jobs.
Most transport office staff are ex drivers and are used to long hours so when offered a job indoors that gets you home at a regular time every night (keeping her indoors happy) and you’re financially (slightly) better off the hours don’t come into it as they’re probably less than before.
Not many transport office staff move into other Industries because once in transport its difficult to make that move out.
You lot seem to bleave anything your told. On radio 4 2,4 , weeks ago it was on there saying about the WTD and still trying to make it LAW IN THE UK witch it’s not as yet, YOU CAN OPPT OUT my boss has ask us to sign a paper asking if we will oppt out, because it up to the worker to work more not the boss to make you. If you would like to work longer you can but you can not be made to.
steverospa:
You lot seem to bleave anything your told. On radio 4 2,4 , weeks ago it was on there saying about the WTD and still trying to make it LAW IN THE UK witch it’s not as yet, YOU CAN OPPT OUT my boss has ask us to sign a paper asking if we will oppt out, because it up to the worker to work more not the boss to make you. If you would like to work longer you can but you can not be made to.
If you’re a driver or involved in the road transport industry in such a way that it brings you under the WTD for mobile workers then feel free to tell your boss that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, you can opt out of the 48 hour week for the general WTD but we work to the WTD for mobile workers and have no opt out option.
Proof is here.
- Weekly working time limits (and how to calculate them)
3.1 Main Points
- Workers may not exceed an average 48 hours working time a week over the reference period, nor may they exceed 60 hours working time in a single week (a week always starts at 00.00 on Monday morning).
- Workers covered by the Regulations cannot opt-out from the average 48-hour weekly limit.
Actually I’ve just realised that I posted that link in this post, take it you didn’t bother to read it then 
Perhaps you should get your camera out and take a picture of it for your boss 
steverospa:
You lot seem to bleave anything your told. On radio 4 2,4 , weeks ago it was on there saying about the WTD and still trying to make it LAW IN THE UK witch it’s not as yet,
You really should have paid more attention when you were listening, that was The Working Time Regulations (1998) they were discussing, which does contain an opt out but does not apply to mobile workers. We are governed by The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 which does not allow an opt out, except to the 10 hour night time limit. You can see from the link to the WTD 1998 that it is, and has been, law in the UK since 1st October 1998. The Radio 4 discussion was not about trying to make it law in the UK but was about the EU trying to get Britain, and other countries, to scrap the opt out.
steverospa:
YOU CAN OPPT OUT
Doesn’t matter how loud you shout, you are still wrong
steverospa:
my boss has ask us to sign a paper asking if we will oppt out,
Your boss is acting illegally then and could be opening up a heap of trouble for himself. You should not sign that under any circumstances.
steverospa:
If you would like to work longer you can but you can not be made to.
Non mobile workers can but mobile workers cannot.
The latest round of talks on removing the opt out broke down last Thursday, April 2nd, after all night talks. This means around half of the 27 countries involved, including Britain, retain the right for individuals, in certain sectors, to opt out, but again that is only the Working Time Regulations (1998) so has no bearing on drivers.
steverospa, is the vehicle you drive over 3.5 tonnes 
steverospa:
You lot seem to bleave anything your told. On radio 4 2,4 , weeks ago it was on there saying about the WTD and still trying to make it LAW IN THE UK witch it’s not as yet, YOU CAN OPPT OUT my boss has ask us to sign a paper asking if we will oppt out, because it up to the worker to work more not the boss to make you. If you would like to work longer you can but you can not be made to.
Whilst you are correct in saying that the WTD is not yet law, the Road Transport (Working Time) Directive (2002/15/EC) which contains the 48h rule for drivers IS law, and that’s what we all have to obey without any legal opt out. There is a load more information on it on this link which I suggest your boss reads before he gets into big trouble with the authorities.
Paul
repton:
Whilst you are correct in saying that the WTD is not yet law
Where do you get that from? It was enacted into law by a Statutory Instrument on 1st October 1998. Just one of many LINKS you will find stating so.
Coffeeholic:
Where do you get that from?
That’ll teach me to not check to see if there is a page 2 on a thread before posting!
You’re right, of course, and I’m wrong. But that said, given the opt out on the WTD it might as well not be law in practice for most people.
Paul
sorry to bang on about this WTD but as I said on radio 2 and saying about it is not the LAW yet for mobile workers, try looking at this web site then, it says that the talks to bring it in have broken down yet again, yes it’s not it as law for mobile works yes you lot ( lorry drivers)
www.berr.gov.uk.
Look at this site and then decide if you think it’s the LAW.
Yes some transport companeys are working to it but a lot are not, including mine, and we are not doing any thing wrong
steverospa:
sorry to bang on about this WTD but as I said on radio 2 and saying about it is not the LAW yet for mobile workers, try looking at this web site then, it says that the talks to bring it in have broken down yet again, yes it’s not it as law for mobile works yes you lot ( lorry drivers)
berr.gov.uk.
Look at this site and then decide if you think it’s the LAW.
Yes some transport companeys are working to it but a lot are not, including mine, and we are not doing any thing wrong
Pinpoint where in the site you mention where it says its NOT LAW 
Will this settle wether it is a ‘directive’ which may or may not be in force Or a ‘regulation’ which is now LAW
opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050639.htm
Statutory Instrument 2005 No. 639
TRANSPORT
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
Made 10th March 2005
Laid before Parliament 14th March 2005
Coming into force 4th April 2005
The Secretary of State, being a Minister designated [1] for the purposes of section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972[2] in relation to measures relating to the organisation of working time, in exercise of the powers conferred upon him by that provision, hereby makes the following Regulations:
Citation, commencement and extent
-
- (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 and shall come into force on 4th April 2005.
(2) These Regulations extend to Great Britain only.
steverospa:
sorry to bang on about this WTD but as I said on radio 2 and saying about it is not the LAW yet for mobile workers, try looking at this web site then, it says that the talks to bring it in have broken down yet again, yes it’s not it as law for mobile works
As mentioned further up the page those are the talks to remove the opt out which some countries, including Britain, have from the WTD. Different legislation which doesn’t apply to us (mobile workers). That is what the radio programme you heard was discussing.
From the site you linked to, HERE Where it doesn’t say that
steverospa:
talks to bring it in have broken down yet again
It says talks to remove the opt out have broken down.
steverospa:
berr.gov.uk.
Look at this site and then decide if you think it’s the LAW.
From the site you linked to, HERE
The Road Transport Directive (RTD) which was formally adopted on 23 March 2002 makes provision in respect of breaks, rest periods and working time for those subject to Council Regulation No. 3820/85 on the harmonisation of certain social legislation relating to road transport, otherwise known as “the European drivers’ hours regulations”. The RTD was implemented in April 2005.
And
Specific sectors
The Road Transport Directive was implemented by the Department of Transport in April 2005. For further information please call the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) Tel: 0870 6060 440
You gotta laugh when someone posts a link to try to back up their argument and it promptly shoots them in the foot.
What exactly is your job? If you drive for a living, what type of vehicle do you drive?