This has probably been covered before, but from an employer/employee point of view who is responsible for the “policing” of the WTD? If you know that you are going to exceed the 48hr average, over a 26 week period, what would be the best course of action to take? Apart from the obvious one of not turning a wheel, who, if anybody would be brought to book by VOSA? Me or the company? Have tried asking the questions to the supposed right people but it’s like banging my head against a brick wall.
Who will Enforce the RTD?
7.15 Until recently, the Health & Safety Executive (HSE); HSE (NI); and local authorities enforced all mandatory requirements on working time in the UK. However, when the Horizontal Amending Directive (HAD) was implemented on 1 August 2003, HSE was allowed to delegate responsibility for enforcement of the HAD to other enforcement bodies, more appropriate for the sector of employment concerned. Consequently, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency enforce the HAD on mobile workers on inland waterways and the Civil Aviation Authority enforce working time rules on pilots.
7.16 In the road transport sector, Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA) - formerly Vehicle Inspectorate, enforce the HAD on drivers and crew who are covered by drivers’ hours rules. The Driver and Vehicle Testing Agency (DVTA) enforce the HAD for those working in Northern Ireland.
7.17 VOSA examiners and DVTA (NI) have a close working relationship with drivers who are subject to the RTD. By March 2005, they will have had some experience of enforcing working time legislation under the HAD, on drivers in the road transport sector. They would also be the obvious choice to enforce any new regulations based on the RTD.
its your employer to manage your hours that you do but on the safe side i would keep track your self
as you say in your post 26 weeks have you signed a workforce agreement to that as the normal reference period is 17 weeks
if you are paid by the hour and paid for over time you could be IMO sent home without pay but if you are salaried than you should be paid but again its up to your employer, if you have a contract of employment see if it tell you the out come of you not been able to meet the working times regs its your employers responsibility to make sure you don’t brake the regs that why there should keep records
Yeah cheers Del. Am gonna have to do some digging today. Don’t wanna lose money through it, but at same time don’t wanna get a nasty fine either. Thanks for the advice buddy.
kirky7:
This has probably been covered before, but from an employer/employee point of view who is responsible for the “policing” of the WTD? If you know that you are going to exceed the 48hr average, over a 26 week period, what would be the best course of action to take? Apart from the obvious one of not turning a wheel, who, if anybody would be brought to book by VOSA? Me or the company? Have tried asking the questions to the supposed right people but it’s like banging my head against a brick wall.
Cheers in advance
As far as I understand it the WTD is not law and I know meny drivers still working more than 48 hours a week. It’s a con any way. It’s all crap like poa. If I’m at work I at work and they are all working hours in my book
steverospa:
As far as I understand it the WTD is not law …
Oh it is indeed law. The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 is a Statutory Instrument, often refereed to as secondary legislation, and they alter or bring into force an Act of Parliament without the need for a whole new act to be passed. Statutory Instruments are as much a part of the law of the land as an Act of Parliament.
steverospa:
As far as I understand it the WTD is not law …
Oh it is indeed law. The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 is a Statutory Instrument, often refereed to as secondary legislation, and they alter or bring into force an Act of Parliament without the need for a whole new act to be passed. Statutory Instruments are as much a part of the law of the land as an Act of Parliament.
Hi coffeeholic
am i right in saying the the EU driver regs take president over the RTD if there conflict in curtian ways
Not sure about take president but I would always rather stay within the drivers hours rules than the WTD. Not sure there are any conflicts though. You just have to stay within both sets of rules, or at least we are supposed to.
kirky7:
Hiya Del. Yeah we have a signed agreement in place and I also keep my own records via something I made up using Excel.
There are actually two downloads available on these forums. One is a C++ Calculator type ‘thingy’ and the other is an Excel Spreadsheet with embedded VB code. Both ‘crunch the numbers’ for you.
I think (it’s been so long ) that they are in the Useful Links forum. Although, since the forum update, they may not work as we no longer support HTML. (Something else I need to sort. )
Back to the original question. The onus rests with the Employer and the route to prosecution is via Improvement Notice > Enforcement Notice > Court.
IIRC, there are only three offences that can be committed by an Employee and these all centre around ‘falsification’ and ‘deceipt’.
I still stand on my first post and IT IS NOT LAW i also know of some companeys doing more than 48 hours a week, because th drivers have oppted out! YES YOU CAN OPPT OUT…a mate works at toys r us they use it so they can work lots of hours to xmas then have some lay off time in jan, feb up to 2 weeks at a time…the
they are trying to bring it in for transport in April 09 to see if it get past for transport
steverospa:
I still stand on my first post and IT IS NOT LAW
Yeah OK, you keep thinking that.
steverospa:
i also know of some companeys doing more than 48 hours a week, because th drivers have oppted out!
Not legally they haven’t. Although they could be ‘doing’ more than 48 hours in a week because breaks and POA don’t count. Next week I’ll be doing around 84 hours legally because of the amount of break I will have.
steverospa:
YES YOU CAN OPPT OUT…
Not out of the WTD for mobile workers you can’t. The only opt out of the WTF for mobile workers is from the 10 hour night working limit.
steverospa:
a mate works at toys r us they use it so they can work lots of hours to xmas then have some lay off time in jan, feb up to 2 weeks at a time…
Dies he work on the transport side because if not a different WTD applies, you can at the moment still opt out of the WTD for regular folk, just not the one which applies to drivers.
steverospa:
they are trying to bring it in for transport in April 09 to see if it get past for transport
steverospa:
I at work and they are all working hours in my book
Being “at work” is not the same as recorded “WTD work”
It’s like sitting behind the wheel of a truck with it’s engine running whilst stopped in a traffic queue for 10 minutes. That is not recorded as driving time on the tacho but you are, in the eyes of the law, driving.
Workers may not exceed an average 48 hours working time a week over the reference period, nor may they exceed 60 hours working time in a single week (a week always starts at 00.00 on Monday morning).
*Workers covered by the Regulations cannot opt-out from the average 48-hour weekly limit.
Workers may not exceed an average 48 hours working time a week over the reference period, nor may they exceed 60 hours working time in a single week (a week always starts at 00.00 on Monday morning).
*Workers covered by the Regulations cannot opt-out from the average 48-hour weekly limit.
Also, note the word AVERAGE.
That means you can work over 48 hours some weeks, as long as you work less than 48 hours other weeks.
I have a nagging doubt in my mind about keeping records. Somewhere in the mists of time, between glasses of Rioja and a good slug of single malt, I have hazy visions of being told that it is now the drivers responsibility to keep records, not the employer.
Please tell me I have fuddled my brain with said intoxicants
Ok guys and girls…I’ve recently had a similar discussion with somebody else on a very similar note.
You did used to be able to opt of a 48 hour week but over the past couple of years its a no no! Although I think in some job sectors, such as office work you can still do it, not sure on that though…but for HGV drivers the WTD is law.
With regards to who can get punished for working more than 48 hours…it depends. Primarily it’s down to the employer to schedule a drivers work to comply with the regulations and therefore the company would get fined (and the driver a slapped wrist) However…if the driver had another job that caused them to go over hours then a company cannot be held reponsible, unless they knew about it, and therefore the driver would be responsible and be fined.
With regards to overtime, this can be complicated depending on what your contract says…but the general gist of it is this;
A company has no legal power to force you to do overtime, if they force you to do overtime then the company is breaking the law…simple as that! It’s up to you if you want to do overtime, not the company, however, this is where many drivers get confused…
Most contracts say that you will be paid for 48 hours per week, however you may end up working up to 60. This feels like overtime but this is how a company sorts it out…becuase you have to average 48 hours, if you’ve worked 60 hours in one week, then at some point you will have to take time off and may end up only working for 30 hours in another week, but you will still get paid for 48. This is how it evens itself out
My recomendation is to make a copy of all your hours and then work it out at the end of the reference period to find out if you’re still legal or not.
) that they are in the Useful Links forum. Although, since the forum update, they may not work as we no longer support HTML. (Something else I need to sort. 
)
