Hi, I recently failed my C+E. I had three minors and one serious - the serious being an accumulation of minors on the same thing. Apart from the serious the examiner refused to give details on the faults. I was expecting to be able to ask ‘So the fail on use of mirrors - what part of the drive was that?’ but I asked and he just refused to discuss them. All he said is I look at what boxes he ticked and then read the paragraph with the same number on the accompanying notes. For the two minors on the Cat C pass that examiner was very willing to tell me what specific parts of the drive he marked me down for. It was very useful to get that and being denied that info on my C+E test makes it impossible for me to learn anything from the test other than the one fault he would talk about. Is this normal/acceptable or should they be willing to say what you did when? I’ve looked online but can’t find any guidance on what they should or shouldn’t give in terms of feedback but my natural expectation is that if they want you to improve they’d help enable you to learn from where you’ve gone wrong. Thanks!
The only time I have known that to happen is when a candidate had an ‘attitude’ with the examiner
Did your instructor join you at the end of the test when the examiner was still in the cab ?
Thanks ROG for your input on this.
No the instructor didn’t join us. Is that normal/good/bad? It didn’t happen at the end of my Cat C test either.
The test started awkwardly as partly coz of the truck being cold/low air coz in training we never turned it off but I was told to on test, and partly due to tentativeness about dragging the post which I’d done before, at the end of the coupling exercise he said I’d forgotten to give the trailer a couple of tugs. It was awkward as after I’d got out of the cab the first thing I’d done was to look at him and say that I’d given it a couple of tugs forward but obviously he hadn’t heard this or had forgot I’d said it and as I’d been too gentle there was a bit a frostiness as he insisted I’d forgotten and I said I’d told him I’d done it and must’ve just been too gentle. Things got more awkward as air pressure refused to build and he ended up coaching me thru the scenario, telling me to recheck my triailer brake was off (it was), and eventually just sit in the yard and rev for a few minutes. Actually the very first thing he’d done in the yard was ask how I knew the cab was secure. I had no idea what he was talking about which he seemed a bit shocked by. Even with him giving a hint of what he was talking about. Adding all these things up the atmosphere felt well and truly curdled before we’d even left the yard.
However, out on the road I reckon we were chatting most of the way thru it about the state of the nation, his career, the transport industry, the effect tramping has on some people’s home life, etc. The atmosphere was pretty friendly I’d say.
The persistent minor fault was progress as the learning curve in my lessons had been too steep for where I was versus the hours actually on the road. My coping mechanism was to slow everything down which I did so much I got failed for inadequate progress. He did seem irritated and even exasperated giving this feedback pointing out I was holding traffic back, it’s dangerous, he’d had to cut the route short, etc. I did wonder before I started this thread if his feeling of irritation and impatience had built up to the point that he decided he didn’t have time or patience to go thru the other results with me. Your message ROG does chime with that theory.
I always presented myself at the front of the lorry once the test had finished so that the examiner could then ask the candidate if they wanted me present for the debrief
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … t-form.pdf
Near the bottom right is the DEBRIEF tick box
Both very interesting.
After my Cat C test (which I passed) I did not see my instructor and would never have seen him again if I’d not returned to the school for C+E training. It was really good that I did see him again as I felt I hadn’t got ‘closure’ by not seeing him after the C test.
i’ve just checked and the debrief checkbox has not been ticked on my C+E test report.
Thank you very much ROG for your help with this.
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it won’t change the result of the test.
It would have been nice to know where I’d slipped up but no, I won’t lose sleep. 
Nice to see a Hitchens fan on here!
Just wondering how you’ve described events …have they changed the test around or something,as when I did my class 1 the uncouple / re-couple exercise was only done the end of the road test…So you did the reverse test, brake test… 45 -50mins road test then finished with the coupling exercise…
So what section did you get marked down for with the faults… Seeing the Driving test report might help
He said he stopped counting on progress once that had totted up to a serious. I got one minor for the blundered post tug 
One for traffic lights which I think was when I braked a bit too sharply in order to stop at some. And one for use of mirrors/M/C/rear obs. Not actually sure what M/C is. This one is a mystery to me. One balls up I know I made was heading for the right hand lane of three for turning right when actually the middle lane went right too. It’s one I’d got wrong on practice. I realised my mistake and drifted back over while I was still between the two. I didn’t give a signal so as not to draw attention to my mistake. Could very well have been that but it would have been nice to know for sure!
The order of the exercises was reverse, uncoupling/coupling, road. I don’t know what a brake test is so I’m guessing that’s something that’s been dropped.
M/C refers to motorcycle. The form is generic to all types of vehicle.
Using the right hand of available lanes is no problem - though it’s certainly not best practice. Changing lanes, especially without a signal, is bad news and should never happen.
The coupling ex can take place at the start or end of the test. At our centre it’s normally at the start but you cant rely on it.
The braking ex finished a good while ago.
It’s clear you know where you went wrong. Please stop analysing it; it wont make it go away or make it any better!
Examiners wont often bother discussing the minor marks when there are serious issues to discuss - which he clearly did.
Pete
It was more a case of being between the two lanes and changing my mind but I probably should have signalled. I had been taught never to take the right hand lane and that I’d fail on that section if I did so it’s useful to hear your take on that.
It’s my personality to analyse and altho sometimes it can work against me, today’s discussion on here about the examiner has been educative. I asked to improve my understanding rather than to deny reality and the info I’ve received, even down to knowing what M/C stands for on the form, has been useful.
My personal preference for feedback would be full feedback but it seems on this occasion he chose to prioritise the serious fault and to exclude the others.
Let me clarify the situation for turning right when there is more than one lane available for the turn. This applies at every turn, every test centre, every town and continues to apply in the “real world”.
Find the left hand of the available lanes and use that. This makes the turn as easy as possible, avoids lane changes, takes away the worry of faster traffic coming up your inside (they will be on your outside - driver’s side). It makes sense to deliberately use a lane to the right if you have unusual circumstances. This could be having a slow moving learner in a car ahead of you (especially if facing uphill and there is the possibility of the car stalling). It could be that you can see an obstruction (maybe a truck delivering) in your lane on the far side of the junction. Now it makes sense to be anywhere but in the left hand of the available lanes.
BUT, if you find yourself in the right hand of the available lanes, this is not of itself a serious problem. Simply stay in the lane for the whole of the turn and, when it’s safe (and this is where it typically goes wrong) a couple of flashes to the left and move back. The scope for error is massive and this is why it’s strongly discouraged.
The OP has mentioned that he was really neither in one lane or another. This is clearly a problem. Forward planning would have determined the desired lane and then proper decisions for executing the decision would have stood a better chance. To arrive at a junction without having decided which lane to use will always be bad news. Better to get into a “second best” lane than no lane at all.
Hope this helps, Pete
Thanks Pete that’s very useful and certainly clarifies things a lot. I’m going to reread that and commit it to memory!
Yes I’d failed to take good obervations and was out of instinct going for the right lane simply as the examiner had said to turn right. I then realised this wasn’t an appropriate choice and changed my mind and aimed for the middle lane instead. If I’d been on the ball I wouldn’t have made the initial misjudgment which I then decided to ‘correct’.
Glad it helps and you can see what went wrong.
Remember, look well ahead at the junction. Choose your lane. Stick with it. (and remember to breathe!!!)
Pete
Lol yessir! Breathing - yes - always forget about that one!!! 
If there are three lanes and two turn right with the arrows covered by other traffic then the examiner knows you do not have xray vision so should inform you of how many lanes turn right - at least that seemed to be the practice at the test centers I used
That might be useful to those wondering …
I did this on my cat c test, started going for the right hand lane and realised that I needed the left in time to indicate and move over safely. Was a close thing though and easily done.
If there are three lanes and two turn right with the arrows covered by other traffic then the examiner knows you do not have xray vision so should inform you of how many lanes turn right - at least that seemed to be the practice at the test centers I used
That might be useful to those wondering
Good point and applies with us certainly. But doesn’t negate the need to read road signs in advance of the junction when they are in place.
Pete
The debrief box on the DL25 is ticked when the instructor attends the debrief, which is a change from when it was first introduced.
A debrief on a fail will/should only cover the serious fault recorded, when you had the Cat C test it was a pass and the examiner highlighted a couple of your driving faults to help you become a better driver. That is the way DVSA examiner’s work.