There is nowt they can do about it,unless they can prove that you are reselling the fuel.Which is nigh on impossible.What they can do is monitor your vat returns and see that you are not using that amount of fuel ie not claiming back the tax.If they find that you are doing low milage but still using the fuel.They can ask to see your tax returns and also ask for explaination as to where the diesel has gone.To get round this problem some of those(not all i hasten to say) that go on these fuel run sell the truck ie they do the rounds of mates.What does get me most over this not only are they getting cheap diesel but claiming back 20% tax from the belgium/french governments…Do you call this fair trading i think not,its fair enough if you drive and work over the water then to deisel up on the way home,not just to go out to rip of us the tax payer but be able to make more profit out of those that pay full fuel duty in the uk
I take it most of you agree with what im saying then??.
bump
I kind of agreee with oddsodz in as much that, it is an unfair advantage that hauliers who live near the coast gain, over other chaps living to far away to benifit from the system
HOWEVER I also agree, that any haulier/owner driver has the right to maximise profits in any LEGAL way he can. and there is nothing illegal with going over for the derv and reclaiming the VAT
I question the AMOUNT over 1500 litres per vehicle as this is a grey area
but not the principal
Rgds Mike
Simon:
IMHO, its one thing to get cheap diesel to increase your profit margin. Its something else to use cheap diesel to undercut the rates of another company on a job. Rates, and so wages, are more than low enough as it is, without cutting them to suit cheaper diesel.
ditto
the 1500 litre limit is to do with the adr regulations as far as i’m aware i.e:if you carry more you need the proper paperwork,equipped vehicle & insurance etc.
as for being “unfair” for me to be able to buy cheap diesel from abroad just because i live near enough to the port if you follow that argument then it is unfair on me that hauliers in other parts of the country:-
have cheaper insurance (i’m in the most expensive area postcode band)
payless rent for their yard (again very expensive being based in the southeast)
have cheaper homes (so paying less for their mortgages in turn making more diposable income)
as i’m a subcontractor i dont set the rates so i cant undercut anybody but i still get the same rate as everybody else no matter where they are based so if i did not fill up in belgium then all the other hauliers based in west yorkshire for instance would be making more money than me as their cost are lower so following oddsodz line of thinking i think it is unfair that all the hauliers from west yorkshire are taking advantage of their lower costs to make more money than the hauliers from the southeast of england who dont fill up abroad.
going back a bit customs do keep an eye on how many times a vehicle goes across as they stopped a friend of mine when he had done his second trip in 1 week & wanted to know how he had managed to use 1500 litres luckily for him he had his paperwork for the week still with him (he had double shifted the vehicle on a contract)to prove it had done the mileage tomatch the consumption.
as for them not being able to do anything about it that is misleading aswell because what they do is work out how much mileage you do from your paperwork & what the average fuel cosumption is & if they decide you have been selling it on the they charge you the back duty on the excess.
why anybody would sell it on is beyond me,by the time you have paid for the train,the diesel to get you there & back your time (it takes me 8 hours to do a round trip but it has taken up to 15 hours) and then taken enough money from the uk price to make it appealing to a buyer it’s not worth the effort!
upto 15 hrs to do round trip??.well all i can say is if it takes you that long the saving you have made must have been burnt by your truck ■■.I do agree with those that use the international roads to make a living but not the uk only trucks.European trucks from the uk carry a higher insurance rate (much higher).so coming back with 1000/1500 litres does make sence.Of coarse it gives you an advantage to run on cheap diesel,if you have no backload you can run back m/t,and still show better profits.
Lets drive from north surry to folkestone 1hr ?
over on train 1hr
up to Veurne diesel up collect baccy/■■■■ 1hr
back to calias(pidou for beer/spirits 1/2 hr
over on train 1hr
back to yard pump out diesel 1hr
total 5.30 mins
My firm used to do diesel runs. As stated, it is neither illegal nor immoral, no more than filling up in Essex would be if Essex diesel was cheaper than Kent diesel. For trade purposes, the eu is all one country.
Sittingbourne- Adinkerke-Sittingbourne used to take 7 hours.
We never pumped the diesel out- filling both tanks would only be enough to run the truck for 5-6 days anyway.
We dont do these any more as the £-euro movement has made it uneconomical. (there was a days wages to be paid to the driver)
Incidentally, at the height of the diesel run, a year or so ago, there was a Yorkshire haulier who used to send three tractor units down on a low-loader, and park it in Ashford Truckstop. All four tractors would then fill up in Belgium before returning to Yorkshire.
Anyone remember belly tanks? 2000 litres at 13p per litre…
Vince
oddsodz:
upto 15 hrs to do round trip??.well all i can say is if it takes you that long the saving you have made must have been burnt by your truck ■■.I do agree with those that use the international roads to make a living but not the uk only trucks.European trucks from the uk carry a higher insurance rate (much higher).so coming back with 1000/1500 litres does make sence.Of coarse it gives you an advantage to run on cheap diesel,if you have no backload you can run back m/t,and still show better profits.
Lets drive from north surry to folkestone 1hr ?
over on train 1hr
up to Veurne diesel up collect baccy/■■■■ 1hr
back to calias(pidou for beer/spirits 1/2 hr
over on train 1hr
back to yard pump out diesel 1hrtotal 5.30 mins
how hard you try to justify your viewpoint!
how can you get from north surrey to folkesstone in 1 hour?or maybe you are one those that “pulls the fuse”? even then it would still take longer i couldn’t do it in an hour in my car!
ok train over 1 hour unless there are delays hence the 15 hours not 15 hours running!
& 1 hour back
i dont smoke so i dont buy baccy & if i did how much would i have to buy to make a profit taking into consideration the cost of the train,with that amount of baccy you lay yourself open to getting your vehicle confiscated by customs for smuggling.
whats the point of going to pidou for booze when its just as cheap in tesco/sainsbury/morrisons or in you case harrods as it would be “unfair” to buy your shopping in one of the “cheaper” shops
why go back to the yard and pump it out seems a bit pointless filling it up in the first place if all you are going to do is empty it again?
I’m not too bright on the technicalities of running a business ( that’s why i’m an employee!!) but if taxes and cost’s were more or less the same then the industry might have a better chance to survive and we’d have a level playing field. Then there may not be so many european trucks taking all the work with them
north surrey haulage:
oddsodzthen maybe you should be moaning about the indecent amout of duty on our fuel prices & not about sombody trying to make a living!
i did remember the fuel protests ■■ its not my problem you live in an expensive area or that your cost are more down south.My point is that it is unfair to the point of being sad that you cant budget your books without the need to deprive the government of duty and then have the audasity to claim your tax back from belgium.Also not paying the higher rate of insurance that the international companys do.If as you say it takes you sometimes 15hrs to do the trip that is a full working day does this not cost you a day in lost earnings??
oddsodz:
i did remember the fuel protests ■■ its not my problem you live in an expensive area or that your cost are more down south.
are you seriously trying to tell me if you lived near enough to the south coast ports for you to be able to take advantage of cheaper fuel abrad you wouldn’t do it■■?
oddsodz:
My point is that it is unfair to the point of being sad that you cant budget your books without the need to deprive the government of duty
why did you go on the fuel protests (as you imply in your earlier answere)if you are worried about depriving the government of duty■■?
maybe you were protesting that we were not paying enough?
oddsodz:
Also not paying the higher rate of insurance that the international companys do.
what makes you think i dont have an international licence or pay for cmr insurance?
also you havn’t replied to how you would get from surrey to folkestone in an hour? i’m intrigued.
and yes if it takes me 15 hours it does mean w whole day gone so its not as clear cut as you think you have to take into account that you do get delays and that is on top of doing a weeks work!
oddsodz:
its not my problem you live in an expensive area or that your cost are more down south.
i think you missed the point i was trying to make!
north surrey haulage:
oddsodz:
Also not paying the higher rate of insurance that the international companys do.what makes you think i dont have an international licence or pay for cmr insurance?
also you havn’t replied to how you would get from surrey to folkestone in an hour? i’m intrigued.
and yes if it takes me 15 hours it does mean w whole day gone so its not as clear cut as you think you have to take into account that you do get delays and that is on top of doing a weeks work!
So you do a weeks work and then drive to belgium to get your diesel ■■ ok then now i see how you make more profit by running bent ?
oddsodz:
So you do a weeks work and then drive to belgium to get your diesel ■■ ok then now i see how you make more profit by running bent ?
what are you on about now?
you said, and yes if it takes me 15 hours it does mean w whole day gone so its not as clear cut as you think you have to take into account that you do get delays and that is on top of doing a weeks work!,your words not mine,
last time i looked there were 6 days in a week.
i work 5 and fill up on 1