European Rates

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS EURO DRIVING FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

I keep reading on this site and in all the transport papers how things are so difficult pressure on rates and the industry is desperate for increases.
So what happens today.
Our company export to Germany 2/3 loads per week we have a very good UK haulier who does this and charges what we consider a fair rate knowing there is always someone who will do it for £10/£20 cheaper.
How desperate can some companies be when a quote drops through the email from a UK branch of a major European Transport company with a price
£350 Peterborough - D28 Germany + £20 Maut charge from January.
The price is so crazy I wonder what service they supply.
Why does the industry do this?
As a manufacturer in plastics we know oil prices have gone up and not down so why is it companies are prepared to do this.
Crazy.

Merry Xmas and I hope a prosperous New Year (not at rates quoted above)

Crispie :slight_smile: :question:

2

crispie:
How desperate can some companies be when a quote drops through the email from a UK branch of a major European Transport company with a price
£350 Peterborough - D28 Germany + £20 Maut charge from January.

Perhaps they already have a contract doing something close to the opposite of that and so they’re offering it cut price as a backload?

Paul

3

Yes repton I thought along similar lines. Maybe they are regularly shipping out empty for lucrative import rates & this figure will cover the current out ship costs. Good business!

4

OK I can understand if they are shipping empty back to Europe but it still amazes me how the industry is desperately telling us rates must go up and then companies do this.
If this continues will all loads end up as “Back loads”.

Anyway I have informed our current transporter who runs a proffesional and good company with good UK drivers and have told them we will stay with them as they do supply avery good service to both us and to the end customer.

Merry Christmas

Crispie :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

5

I’m pleased to hear crispie that you are one of the companies who value service and are still prepared to pay for that. The problem with this company doing it for that trate is that one persons backload is another persons out load. Personally I would rather run back from somewhere empty, and have done in the past, rather than do a rate for a ‘backload price.’ If someone wants to use me they pay my price regardless if it is an out or backload and if that price is too much don’t use me as I won’t sell myself short just to get a load. Maybe not the bit of business sense but it means I feel better about myself and it’s worked OK for years now.

6

crispie:
OK I can understand if they are shipping empty back to Europe

…me too, just good business as some one has already said.

crispie:
If this continues will all loads end up as “Back loads”

I was speaking to a O/D recently who says there should be no such thing as a ‘backload’ , all loads are, and should be treated as, a load.

crispie:
Anyway I have informed our current transporter who runs a proffesional and good company with good UK drivers and have told them we will stay with them as they do supply avery good service to both us and to the end customer.

Really good to hear!!

Coffeeholic:
… one persons backload is another persons out load.

Totally agree!

Coffeeholic:
Personally I would rather run back from somewhere empty, and have done in the past, rather than do a rate for a ‘backload price.’ If someone wants to use me they pay my price regardless if it is an out or backload and if that price is too much don’t use me as I won’t sell myself short just to get a load.

So Neil, your principals are intact (and commendable) but like you also say, maybe not the best bit of business sense. Unless/until the tpt industry as a whole sticks together (and I don’t mean mass strikes or blockades etc) I can’t imagine the situation improving much! :cry:

7

Coffeeholic:
. Personally I would rather run back from somewhere empty, and have done in the past, rather than do a rate for a ‘backload price.’ If someone wants to use me they pay my price regardless if it is an out or backload and if that price is too much don’t use me as I won’t sell myself short just to get a load. Maybe not the bit of business sense but it means I feel better about myself and it’s worked OK for years now.

Maybe not, Coffee, but not a total nonsense either, especially if you have good regular outward bound work. I’m sure you take into account you don’t get messed about trying to find an unfamiliar address, out of your way, extra loading time, extra fuel loaded, and the reverse at the other end. So it isn’t all loss.
Funny thing, I remember the remark 'everything will end up as “backloads” ’ being bandied about when I started tramping back in the 60s. We were paid a percentage then to find our own work and so rates were of direct interest to us.
Plus ca change…

Salut, David.

8

I strongly disagree with these “less than cost” backload rates.

For starters, you’re exposing your GIT insurance (and policy excess) for Zero money.

Why do it?

As for making business sense, that’s complete and utter NONsense.

Its one of these completely unnecessary greed things. Its not market driven pricing — it’s the market killing the market.

It’s a very short term gain — one day, someone will poach your outloads.

Unless you’re an own account operator, why don’t you price base to base?

9

Although slightly different, Doing tanker work was always priced on full rates.

From collection to delivery point on a mileage / tonnage rate, plus the mileage to a cleaning station plus the cost of a clean. We also priced on AA mileage plus 7% and would normally either price it forward to a busy area or return to depot.

It worked for us, till the company went bust :cry: We must have been too expensive :bulb:

10

I work prices out four ways:-

  1. Base to Base Mileage
  2. Time (Day & Hour Rates)
  3. Transported Distance (collection to delivery)
  4. Cost Basis (Fuel + Labour + Costs + Profit)

Then I add expenses such as ferry, tolls, night out money. This is the only bit I will split between customers — which is still a risk, because if one job falls through I’m out of pocket.

Then I take a commercial “view” on what I think is the right price (taking into account the market, customer value/volume etc).

Some you win, some you lose.

From my experience, many of the firms who undercut me (sometime by huge amounts) can’t know their costs, or don’t account for depreciation or future vehicle replacement.

Paralysis by analysis is one thing, working blind is another.

11

We just quoted on a job-

Load Worcester and London, tip Brno (Czech Republic)

We quoted £1500, another Brit ended up with the job. £720.

Some rates we have been offered lately…

Sheerness- Stuttgart £270

Telford- Milan £740

London- Barcelona £600

And, best of all…

FORWARDER “Yes, we have an export load, Canterbury to Calais”

MY BOSS “OK, sounds good. How much?”

FORWARDER “You pay US £10 and we pay your ferry” :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

In contrast, we reckon to earn a top line of £400 per day on UK work.

We will only do work which pays, which is why nearly all of our work is in the UK now. There’s little point in doing work if there’s no money in it.

Shame, innit?

Vince

12

Vince:
“You pay US £10 and we pay your ferry”

Can somebody please explain to me how that is meant to work because I must be missing a key point. Otherwise, it’s just farsical :open_mouth:

13

Marcustandy,
It works because they are banking on someone wanting to get to France to bring back a load and looking for a way to pay for the ferry.
Whenever I went to England with Gauthier we always came back empty because he had plenty of work back here from Northern France and probably couldn’t be bothered with the hassle.
Bearing in mind a case like this it was a wise move.
Mind you the fact that he couldn’t speak English may have been a factor.
Salut, David.

14

marcustandy:

Vince:
“You pay US £10 and we pay your ferry”

Can somebody please explain to me how that is meant to work because I must be missing a key point. Otherwise, it’s just farsical :open_mouth:

it is meant to go like this (possible conversation).

agent, yes thats right chap, you pay us a tenner.

transporter, your pulling my doo dah pal, you must think i was born yesterday or something.

agent, no mate not at all, were doing you a big favour chap, just think of the price of fuel in france and it’s even cheaper if you run into belgium, you could possibly make yourself somewhere in the region of 300 nicker on top of the ferry price.

transporter, you obviously don’t run any transport do you you half baked lunatic?

agent, theres no need to get like that chap, were doing you a big favour here, we’ve got dozens of haulers begging for this kind of easy load, just to get them into france or belgium and some of them are making a fortune at it, some of them are even back loading with tobacco and ■■■■ at a grand a pallet and they hide it in with what looks like a load of fresh cut timber chap.

transporter, replaces receiver.

agent, hello! hello!

redials,

agent, hello chap we appear to have been cut off, like i was saying, hello! hello!

redials,

agent, hello chap, is there something wrong with your phone we got cut off again?

transporter, listen to me pal, we didn’t get cut off, i hung up on you, these companies desperate for this type of work, ring them up and pester them, they are obviously cowboys and deserve the work your offering, if you call me again i’m going to call the customs hotline number and report that you have information about smuggling.

phone line goes dead.

15

Ahhh, I get it now!! :laughing: :laughing:

16

Just wondering, if companies who run to the UK and then run back to Europe empty, I wonder if they include the cost of the ferry both ways in their prices ?

I am also wondering if anybody has ever bid on FreightTraders, the freight tendering site ?

Companies offering to do cheap backloads has what has KILLED THE EUROPEAN SIDE for British hauliers Im afraid. Backloads are outloads for UK hauliers. Lets all remember that. Its British Industry accepting cheap quotes from foreign hauliers to move the goods. Just need to look at the amount of foreign hauliers in the UK doin UK - Europ work, Derijke/Maenhout are 2 that spring to mind!!

17

routier:
Just wondering, if companies who run to the UK and then run back to Europe empty, I wonder if they include the cost of the ferry both ways in their prices ?

I am also wondering if anybody has ever bid on FreightTraders, the freight tendering site ?

Companies offering to do cheap backloads has what has KILLED THE EUROPEAN SIDE for British hauliers Im afraid. Backloads are outloads for UK hauliers. Lets all remember that. Its British Industry accepting cheap quotes from foreign hauliers to move the goods. Just need to look at the amount of foreign hauliers in the UK doin UK - Europ work, Derijke/Maenhout are 2 that spring to mind!!

Not quite so simple as that, more to do with with the strength of currency and the fact that British Industry has been turned into a huge call centre, albeit based in India.

We dont export enough and we import too much

18

Was talking to one of our subbies who does European work for us.

Said he was on about £1700 for southern spain (its a few weeks ago & i’ve 4got what he said re ferries, though as we tend to own them, :laughing: i suspect that would be ferries paid) & looking for £1200 out, but didn’t always get it.

without prejudice

19

British Industry accepting cheap quotes from foreign hauliers to move the goods. Just need to look at the amount of foreign hauliers in the UK doin UK - Europ work, Derijke/Maenhout are 2 that spring to mind!!

Derijke have a Europe wide presence. they already own several UK companies and have operating centres in the UK

Stalybridge. Newbury and Gainsborough

Nijman Zeetank took over the Pilkington glass contract because the unions and shop stewards had got too powerful in St Helens.

Maenhout is just a ferry trailer operator in the UK, but they use mainly UK hauliers to do traction work.

If the Euro gets stronger than the pound than there will be a mad rush for the continent

20

Driveroneuk:
Was talking to one of our subbies who does European work for us.

Said he was on about £1700 for southern spain (its a few weeks ago & i’ve 4got what he said re ferries, though as we tend to own them, :laughing: i suspect that would be ferries paid) & looking for £1200 out, but didn’t always get it.

without prejudice

Rosewood are currently offering £1800 round-trip Barcelona or Madrid, £2200 Malaga. That will be with 2 or 3 collections, at each end, starting and ending up around Manchester.

We would quote £1600 one way to Barcelona. We would expect to be undercut- by a British haulier- by about a grand. But we quote a proper rate for the job, and although we only get 1 in 20 of the jobs we quote on, at least we do the ones we get for decent money.

The situation may change, but the regrettable truth is that no euro-manufacturer will touch the UK with a bargepole for as long as our currency can fluctuate against theirs. To do so simply invites trouble. Unless we show that we want to do trade with Europe- eg by adopting the European Currency- then I personally feel it will only get worse.

Vince