Winseer:
The reason I won’t be voting Farage on my ballot paper, is that he isn’t a candidate in my ward.I’ll vote for whoever has the best chance of ousting whoever the incumbent is.
Turn 'em over, or don’t turn up!
Well seeing that the former incumbent is about to be “doing a bit of porridge” shortly so who will you be fancying to win ? I do realise that Nigel isn’t actually standing but no doubt there will be a UKIP candidate.Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Winseer:
The reason I won’t be voting Farage on my ballot paper, is that he isn’t a candidate in my ward.I’ll vote for whoever has the best chance of ousting whoever the incumbent is.
Turn 'em over, or don’t turn up!Well seeing that the former incumbent is about to be “doing a bit of porridge” shortly so who will you be fancying to win ? I do realise that Nigel isn’t actually standing but no doubt there will be a UKIP candidate.Cheers Bewick.
Mass abstention in which no one votes for any of the overpaid zb’s would probably be a better answer.But you can bet it’ll be the usual race between the Tories and the LibDems and maybe the Labour tossers.
Carryfast:
‘…Just like Farage you don’t seem to be able to get the idea that there is no other way…’
I so don’t see any point in engaging with a fantasy re-write of history to consequently inhabit a unilateral bubble when the question today is ‘…EUROPE YES OR NO…’ - not ‘What should have happened [but didn’t] in a skint Britain with post-war hope 45 years ago?’
I’m just a simple soul with a potential vote and a rationale behind how I’ll cast it if I ever get invited to exit the EU farce by reluctant (but forever scheming & covert) rabidly fanatical and pro-EU Lib-Lab-Con federalists running the UK on Brussels behalf 
So, I apologise for:
1. Not being overly focussed on ‘shoulda-coulda-woulda’ type diversions, and consequently
2. Not overly investing my contemporary equity in (Carryfast’s notion of) ‘…it…’
Carryfast:
‘…[A] Thatcherite like Farage …’
Aah, maybe I do get it! The answer to '…EUROPE YES OR NO is to indignantly slander (?) a bloke who rationally argues ‘Out of the EU’, to rather wish what could have been post WW2 (and 1970-something) under a herbert called ‘Shore’ who became revered after Britain stupidly/smartly stopped buying overpriced, unreliable and poorly designed, eg., Leyland cars once the (strangely communist & indoctrinated homosexual?) Mr Heath had conned our parents generation into expensively financing the Federal EUSSR as the Utopia that no-one particularly likes, has any say about but pays through the nose for in 2013.
Sign me up and let’s rip-out the central heating and bring back the clocking-on hooter, chilblanes, short trousers in February & rusty Meccano sets to make the nation Great again
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…Just like Farage you don’t seem to be able to get the idea that there is no other way…’I so don’t see any point in engaging with a fantasy re-write of history to consequently inhabit a unilateral bubble when the question today is ‘…EUROPE YES OR NO…’ - not ‘What should have happened [but didn’t] in a skint Britain with post-war hope 45 years ago?’
I’m just a simple soul with a potential vote and a rationale behind how I’ll cast it if I ever get invited to exit the EU farce by reluctant (but forever scheming & covert) rabidly fanatical and pro-EU Lib-Lab-Con federalists running the UK on Brussels behalf
So, I apologise for:
1. Not being overly focussed on ‘shoulda-coulda-woulda’ type diversions, and consequently
2. Not overly investing my contemporary equity in (Carryfast’s notion of) ‘…it…’Carryfast:
‘…[A] Thatcherite like Farage …’Aah, maybe I do get it! The answer to '…EUROPE YES OR NO is to indignantly slander (?) a bloke who rationally argues ‘Out of the EU’, to rather wish what could have been post WW2 (and 1970-something) under a herbert called ‘Shore’ who became revered after Britain stupidly/smartly stopped buying overpriced, unreliable and poorly designed, eg., Leyland cars once the (strangely communist & indoctrinated homosexual?) Mr Heath had conned our parents generation into expensively financing the Federal EUSSR as the Utopia that no-one particularly likes, has any say about but pays through the nose for in 2013.
Sign me up and let’s rip-out the central heating and bring back the clocking-on hooter, chilblanes, short trousers in February & rusty Meccano sets to make the nation Great again
I don’t think you’ve understood exctly what I’ve said.All I’ve said is we need to get back to the type of ‘economy’ that we had before we joined the EEC.That obviously won’t mean making exactly the same products which would be outdated except for coal which always remains the same stuff.However I’m sure that we’d be able to make the right stuff now just as we did then regardles of the bs propaganda against British made goods.
It certainly isn’t slanderous to brand Farage as a Thatcherite being that he is a self confessed admirer of her policies and having not surprisingly left the tory party when she left office.Although no surprise conveniently seeming to forget about her support for Wilson etc during the yes campaign during the previous referendum in which case even though he’s dead Shore,or at least his policies,still hold more credibility than Farage’s do or ever will.
But where do you get the idea about us having no central heating etc etc in 1970. 
All of which seems to me to be a better option than just voting in a Thatcherite just based on the promise of getting out of the EU as we know it to be replaced by something like the relationship which Switzerland now has with the place 
which will probably change nothing.While in keeping with Farage’s ideas we’ll probably be tied in even more to the global free market economy than we are now.In which case what would have actually changed for the average British worker going by your idea.
Carryfast:
‘…I don’t think you’ve understood exctly what I’ve said…’
Maybe I’ve been addressing the thread question with less convolution.
Carryfast:
‘…All I’ve said is we need to get back to the type of ‘economy’ that we had before we joined the EEC…’
Which is arguably laudable albeit with questionable relevance since it doesn’t seem to be an option.
Carryfast:
'…s propaganda against British made goods…’
[/quote]
I buy British stuff - whenever it’s available: Yes Sirree, no more Cadbury’s or Dyson for me.
> Carryfast:
> ‘…It certainly isn’t slanderous to brand Farage as a Thatcherite … admirer of her policies and … left the tory party when she left office … forget[ting] about her support for Wilson…’
That is not wholly representational whilst (irrelevantly?) bringing the proven past - from which many have learned - into the contemporary present: Doesn’t it also serve to stoke tribal (and pro EU) Lib-Lab-Con loyalties for which Britain is sadly renowned?
Seeing that today’s Tories are lead by the Ultra-Liberal Cameron - with whom Farage will not work, surely a/the political Happy-Pill to strive for lies between those acknowledged polarities, which I’m certain is not lost on Farage.
Just as in today’s coalition, a compromise will likely emerge - but at least will be a British borne compromise and not an EU diktat.
> Carryfast:
> '…But where do you get the idea about us having no central heating etc etc in 1970…?
It’s the year we got it in our house
> Carryfast:
> ‘…All of which seems to me to be a better option than just voting in a Thatcherite just based on the promise of getting out of the EU …’
To me as a patriot, democratically peeing out from within our tent is lots more attractive than having the EU pee on Britain’s tent from Brussels
> Carryfast:
> ‘…~~omething[/i] like the relationship which Switzerland now has with the place[/u][/quote]
__> *[u][/u]*__[My Italics] Easy: The ‘something’ and two ‘probably’s’ will be democratically representative of the British electorate’s wishes. However, I’m bewildered at how blanking ‘…the global free market economy…’ could be viably sold - or ever be advocated by the Old Fashioned Mondeo Man as replaced by ‘Equal-Opportunity-Same-■■■-Tesco-Partner-Transvestite’, man
> [u]
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…I don’t think you’ve understood exctly what I’ve said…’Maybe I’ve been addressing the thread question with less convolution.
Carryfast:
‘…All I’ve said is we need to get back to the type of ‘economy’ that we had before we joined the EEC…’Which is arguably laudable albeit with questionable relevance since it doesn’t seem to be an option.
Carryfast:
'…s propaganda against British made goods…’
[/quote]
I buy British stuff - whenever it’s available: Yes Sirree, no more Cadbury’s or Dyson for me.
> Carryfast:
> ‘…It certainly isn’t slanderous to brand Farage as a Thatcherite … admirer of her policies and … left the tory party when she left office … forget[ting] about her support for Wilson…’
That is not wholly representational whilst (irrelevantly?) bringing the proven past - from which many have learned - into the contemporary present: Doesn’t it also serve to stoke tribal (and pro EU) Lib-Lab-Con loyalties for which Britain is sadly renowned?
Seeing that today’s Tories are lead by the Ultra-Liberal Cameron - with whom Farage will not work, surely a/the political Happy-Pill to strive for lies between those acknowledged polarities, which I’m certain is not lost on Farage.
Just as in today’s coalition, a compromise will likely emerge - but at least will be a British borne compromise and not an EU diktat.
> Carryfast:
> '…But where do you get the idea about us having no central heating etc etc in 1970…?
It’s the year we got it in our house
> Carryfast:
> ‘…All of which seems to me to be a better option than just voting in a Thatcherite just based on the promise of getting out of the EU …’
> Carryfast:
> ‘…~~omething[/i] like the relationship which Switzerland now has with the place[/u][/quote]
__> *[u][/u]*__[My Italics] Easy: The ‘something’ and two ‘probably’s’ will be democratically representative of the British electorate’s wishes. However, I’m bewildered at how blanking ‘…the global free market economy…’ could be viably sold - or ever be advocated by the Old Fashioned Mondeo Man as replaced by ‘Equal-Opportunity-Same-■■■-Tesco-Partner-Transvestite’, man
> [u][/u][/quote]~~[/u]*__
__> *[u]
>I think that says it all.So we go to all the trouble of finally trying to change the place for the better.Only to put into office a self confessed admirer of the Thatcherite dream.Which closed down swathes of British industry and made us reliant on imports.While turning British union man whose aspirations were more about owning his own house with a decent Jag,Rover or Triumph on the driveway rather than being given a council house paid for by everyone else and being happy with a zb front wheel drive Ford or Jap Crap or at best an over priced German uber wagen,under Thatcher while having to dodge the riots which her policies caused.In addition to which while all her cronies around her and followers like Blair and Cameron and Clegg and Miliband got on with adding Equal Opportunity Same ■■■ Partner and Supermarket food in a box Horesemeat for dinner Transvestite man to that.
>Why can’t anyone see the wood for the trees that what’s needed is a ‘real’ Labour government not just more of the same.
Carryfast:
‘…Why can’t anyone see the wood for the trees that what’s needed is a ‘real’ Labour government not just more of the same…’
I can see it, but it aint popular amongst many animal species, whereas the tribally perpetuated LibLabCon Show is very popular amongst fools.
Rightly or wrongly the lucky-bits of post-modern, contemporary society has emerged from amongst its earthly riches to recognise itself as being human and having human needs - with greed as the uppermost topping: We’ve eaten from the forbidden tree, and those in the EU that haven’t yet gorged on feast have the right to plunder ours first-hand from 31 December 2013 
Is, eg., Cuba or N. Korea any good to laud 
I understand their leaders restrict the ‘human’ bit to themselves
What we can see on offer is the inalienable fact that it is currently down to UKIP challenging to save the LibLabCon’s love affair of chucking £53 million of our tax per day at Brussels: Rev ourselves up with what that could judiciously buy/provide - for Britain and our chosen friends 
- instead of it loading bellies at Brussels’ bistro check-outs and French farmer’s inert fields, etc 
Ironically, we can’t even hold some back for handing out to the inevitable human tsunami waiting at Dover who’ll all demand feeding/housing/transporting/employing in our industry at knock-down rates with benefit for newcomers putting them above us. We’ll have to pay them on top of the £53m to Brussels 
Yes, it’s a race to the bottom with the LibLabCon
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…Why can’t anyone see the wood for the trees that what’s needed is a ‘real’ Labour government not just more of the same…’I can see it, but it aint popular amongst many animal species, whereas the tribally perpetuated LibLabCon Show is very popular amongst fools.
Rightly or wrongly the lucky-bits of post-modern, contemporary society has emerged from amongst its earthly riches to recognise itself as being human and having human needs - with greed as the uppermost topping: We’ve eaten from the forbidden tree, and those in the EU that haven’t yet gorged on feast have the right to plunder ours first-hand from 31 December 2013
Is, eg., Cuba or N. Korea any good to laud
What we can see on offer is the inalienable fact that it is currently down to UKIP challenging to save the LibLabCon’s love affair of chucking £53 million of our tax per day at Brussels: Rev ourselves up with what that could judiciously buy/provide - for Britain and our chosen friends
Ironically, we can’t even hold some back for handing out to the inevitable human tsunami waiting at Dover who’ll all demand feeding/housing/transporting/employing in our industry at knock-down rates with benefit for newcomers putting them above us. We’ll have to pay them on top of the £53m to Brussels
Yes, it’s a race to the bottom with the LibLabCon
If CF/Geoffrey ever gets his wish for an old style Labour government, I think I’ll ■■■■ off back to Canada pronto.
I can just about stomach the Conservatives under Cameron but would prefer someone a bit more right wing, anti EU to be running the show.
I can’t abide Clegg or the loony Labour party lot. I’m worried about Nige splitting the anti EU vote with some of the right wing Cons thereby letting some other ■■■■■■ in by the back door.
If I was confident Nige would get enough votes to form a government, I’d vote for him. After all, anyone who admires Maggie can’t be all that bad. 
Big Jon’s dad:
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…Why can’t anyone see the wood for the trees that what’s needed is a ‘real’ Labour government not just more of the same…’I can see it, but it aint popular amongst many animal species, whereas the tribally perpetuated LibLabCon Show is very popular amongst fools.
Rightly or wrongly the lucky-bits of post-modern, contemporary society has emerged from amongst its earthly riches to recognise itself as being human and having human needs - with greed as the uppermost topping: We’ve eaten from the forbidden tree, and those in the EU that haven’t yet gorged on feast have the right to plunder ours first-hand from 31 December 2013
Is, eg., Cuba or N. Korea any good to laud
What we can see on offer is the inalienable fact that it is currently down to UKIP challenging to save the LibLabCon’s love affair of chucking £53 million of our tax per day at Brussels: Rev ourselves up with what that could judiciously buy/provide - for Britain and our chosen friends
Ironically, we can’t even hold some back for handing out to the inevitable human tsunami waiting at Dover who’ll all demand feeding/housing/transporting/employing in our industry at knock-down rates with benefit for newcomers putting them above us. We’ll have to pay them on top of the £53m to Brussels
Yes, it’s a race to the bottom with the LibLabCon
If CF/Geoffrey ever gets his wish for an old style Labour government, I think I’ll [zb] off back to Canada pronto.
I can just about stomach the Conservatives under Cameron but would prefer someone a bit more right wing, anti EU to be running the show.
I can’t abide Clegg or the loony Labour party lot. I’m worried about Nige splitting the anti EU vote with some of the right wing Cons thereby letting some other [zb] in by the back door.
If I was confident Nige would get enough votes to form a government, I’d vote for him. After all, anyone who admires Maggie can’t be all that bad.
Typical stereotypical bs.
Actually it was the so called ‘right wingers’ like Thatcher in the Tory Party who supported Britain’s membership of the EEC/EU and it was the so called ‘left wing’ of the Labour Party like Shore that opposed it.We never had an old style Labour government unless you count those pro EU low wage economy idiots Wilson and Callaghan as old style Labour.Everything since then has been based on Thatcherism,including the Blair administration.
No surprise though that just like Farage you seem to have conveniently forgotten all that.While obviously taking too much notice of the so called bs idea of right and left wing politics.
Carryfast:
‘…Typical stereotypical bs…’
Original things are hard to encounter these days
Carryfast:
‘…it was the so called ‘right wingers’ like Thatcher in the Tory Party who supported Britain’s membership of the EEC/EU…’
She inherited the closet homosexual communist, Heath’s baby. She didn’t like him. Ever followed a leader that said ‘ooh, I don’t really know’ It’s really frustrating and useless - especially when leading a nation
Carryfast:
‘…it was the so called ‘left wing’ of the Labour Party like Shore that opposed it…’
Then let’s agree that he clearly did a rubbish job of putting an electable case forward - but we now know he was right so let’s follow his dream (?) of ditching it 
Carryfast:
[J]ust like Farage you seem to have conveniently forgotten all that…’
Play fair Only Farage can answer for Farage - and ‘…seem…’ is only a guess.
Having met him & heard him speak more than once at coherent, courteous length, with respect, passion and intgrity (once to to a pitifully small audience) and vouch that ‘he’s well alright’ and I’d buy him a beer anytime.
I’d buy you one too
Carryfast:
‘…[R]ight and left wing politics…’
An outdated & lazy cliche in today’s age of diversity: Can we agree to bin it
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…Typical stereotypical bs…’Original things are hard to encounter these days
Carryfast:
‘…it was the so called ‘right wingers’ like Thatcher in the Tory Party who supported Britain’s membership of the EEC/EU…’She inherited the closet homosexual communist, Heath’s baby. She didn’t like him. Ever followed a leader that said ‘ooh, I don’t really know’
Carryfast:
‘…[R]ight and left wing politics…’An outdated & lazy cliche in today’s age of diversity: Can we agree to bin it
The problem with Thatcher was that,like Heath,she inherited a very capable industrial powerhouse.However her ideology was just as bad as Heath’s if not worse.I think Heath’s motives for joining the EEC/EU were mostly based on fear of the Germans.While Thatcher’s were based on even more sinister motives of actually wanting to see British workers put at a disadvantage by opening the economy up to even more pressure from imports to the advantage of countries like not only Germany but also Russia and China etc etc.
The problem for anyone who was on the recieving end of that during the 1970’s/80’s and after is that there’s no way that they could ever trust anyone with any links to her ideas or policies.Which seems to be an accurate description of Farage.But no Thatcher didn’t ‘inherit’ Heath’s baby because Wilson was actually in office after that and called a referendum during the campaign for which,like Heath,Wilson and Callaghan,Thatcher was on the yes side of that referendum for the reasons given above.So you can see the issues and problem which Farage has in obtaining votes from any of those who view Thatcher as one of the most damaging leaders that this country has ever been stupid enough to put into office.
But at least we can agree on your final paragraph there.
Why do I sometimes get the impression that Labour could get elected with a Blair-type majority IF they replaced the wrong brother at the helm, and Elect Tony Benn as the new pope…? - ■■■■. There’s some rule that stops the over 80’s getting elected. 
Antonius Bene Maximus anyone?
Carryfast:
‘… Thatcher … inherited a very capable industrial powerhouse…’
Correction: Thatcher inherited a post war set-up on it’s knees, riven with ill-managed union/management tension and due major investment merely for it to scratch the ■■■■ of, eg., the VW Wolfsburg factory.
Carryfast:
‘…However her ideology was just as bad as Heath’s if not worse…’
I contend that she remains bitter at failing to polish and ditch the expensive Common Market turd with which for Briton’s to date, she’d sadly remained saddled with.
Carryfast:
‘…Heath’s motives for joining the EEC/EU were mostly based on fear of the Germans…’
Fear of WW3 - along with the pesky French was very rational in those days: But not these days: So Let’s Get Out
Carryfast:
‘…Thatcher’s … sinister motives of … opening the economy up to … Russia and China etc…’
Wasn’t that an excercise to expose the corrosion of Cold War threatening communism to those sympathising with Labour’s ■■■■■■■■■■ by leftie/Commie unionisation in Britain which went tool far and objectively woefully wrong - to where we are
Carryfast:
‘…Thatcher didn’t ‘inherit’ Heath’s baby…’
As Tory leader she did
Carryfast:
‘…Wilson was actually in office after that and called a referendum during the campaign for which,like Heath,Wilson and Callaghan,Thatcher was on the yes side of that referendum…’
1 Ten times more money was later found spent on the EU’s ‘Yes’ Campaign - not surprisingly paid to ‘Yes-Men’ from unaudited Common/Conning Market slush-funds: The same unaudited & rotten funds keep Blair grinning and to chip-in with his pro-EU bolleaux occasionally
2 No wonder the EU cannot and does not account for their (OUR) money since they still splosh it around covertly. Only Farage cares to ask ‘where does our money go?’
3 Just as factual was the EU’s coercion of the Irish when the EU had to step in and smash their dithering when Irish democratic methods threatened to (justifiably ) leave it a few years ago
Our money sways EU arguments the EU’s way: …and UK Tesco man stupidly believes that he has democracy so will undoubtedly go LibLabCon ‘for safety’ :?:
Democracy is an EU sponsored myth and is how ‘Yes’ votes get won by the EU
Carryfast:
‘…Thatcher as one of the most damaging leaders that this country has ever been stupid enough to put into office…’
But gave way to Blair who at least knew how treacherous he was being with the slippery EU: Maggie was, by comparison, arguably still dragging post WW2 shackles.
Carryfast:
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…Typical stereotypical bs…’Original things are hard to encounter these days
Carryfast:
‘…it was the so called ‘right wingers’ like Thatcher in the Tory Party who supported Britain’s membership of the EEC/EU…’She inherited the closet homosexual communist, Heath’s baby. She didn’t like him. Ever followed a leader that said ‘ooh, I don’t really know’
Carryfast:
‘…[R]ight and left wing politics…’An outdated & lazy cliche in today’s age of diversity: Can we agree to bin it
The problem with Thatcher was that,like Heath,she inherited a very capable industrial powerhouse.However her ideology was just as bad as Heath’s if not worse.I think Heath’s motives for joining the EEC/EU were mostly based on fear of the Germans.While Thatcher’s were based on even more sinister motives of actually wanting to see British workers put at a disadvantage by opening the economy up to even more pressure from imports to the advantage of countries like not only Germany but also Russia and China etc etc.
The problem for anyone who was on the recieving end of that during the 1970’s/80’s and after is that there’s no way that they could ever trust anyone with any links to her ideas or policies.Which seems to be an accurate description of Farage.But no Thatcher didn’t ‘inherit’ Heath’s baby because Wilson was actually in office after that and called a referendum during the campaign for which,like Heath,Wilson and Callaghan,Thatcher was on the yes side of that referendum for the reasons given above.So you can see the issues and problem which Farage has in obtaining votes from any of those who view Thatcher as one of the most damaging leaders that this country has ever been stupid enough to put into office.
But at least we can agree on your final paragraph there.
Mrs Thatcher broke the power of the unions. For the bulk of the population, who were not unionised, this was regarded as a good thing after suffering from the strikes and militant picketing by the unions, which caused us inconvenience. So the unions finally met their match and got a good thrashing. Unfortunately not all of Maggie’s ideas were so well received by the general populace. The rest is history. I was stupid enough to vote for Blair the first time he was elected. Biggest voting mistake I ever made.
However Geoffrey your posts are making me consider voting for Nigel as I hadn’t realised he was such an admirer of one of my heros. If you, as a passionate union supporter, don’t like him, he must be worth me giving him a bit more support.
Big Jon’s dad:
Mrs Thatcher broke the power of the unions. For the bulk of the population, who were not unionised, this was regarded as a good thing after suffering from the strikes and militant picketing by the unions, which caused us inconvenience. So the unions finally met their match and got a good thrashing. Unfortunately not all of Maggie’s ideas were so well received by the general populace. The rest is history.
Exactly Thatcher broke the power of the British unions just like Reagan broke the power of the US unions by shutting down the two countries industrial base and using mass unemployment as a weapon and look where it’s got both economies.What were growing,thriving economies before that,have now been turned into low wage economies with massive trade deficits,debt,and flat lining growth figures with wages lagging behind prices so no spending power in the economy.While even if by some miracle we get the economic growth needed to make a dent in the debt figures all it will do is result in more imports and increase the trade deficit thereby resulting in yet more debt.While China and Russia get ever richer and put us in even more debt to them through export of manufactured goods which we could make for ourselves and oil and gas exports because Thatcher closed our coal mines and like a few leaders before her flogged off our gas and oil reserves.The fact is none of Thatcher’s ideas were good ideas it’s just that too many of the British electorate weren’t bright enough to realise it and obviously still aren’t.
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘… Thatcher … inherited a very capable industrial powerhouse…’Correction: Thatcher inherited a post war set-up on it’s knees,
Carryfast:
‘…Thatcher didn’t ‘inherit’ Heath’s baby…’As Tory leader she did
Carryfast:
‘…Wilson was actually in office after that and called a referendum during the campaign for which,like Heath,Wilson and Callaghan,Thatcher was on the yes side of that referendum…’1 Ten times more money was later found spent on the EU’s ‘Yes’ Campaign - not surprisingly paid to ‘Yes-Men’ from unaudited Common/Conning Market slush-funds: The same unaudited & rotten funds keep Blair grinning and to chip-in with his pro-EU bolleaux occasionally
As those figures which I posted previously show the British economy has never had better growth figures than those between 1965-72.
What Thatcher actually inherited was the results of Heath’s idea of joining the EEC opening up the country to massive levels of EU imports added to by the results of Wilson’s and Callaghan’s economic policies of using wage restraint policies to deal with price led inflation.However Britain’s continuing EEC/EU membership,at that time,when Thatcher was put into office,was actually the result of Wilson’s,Callaghan’s,‘and’ Thatcher’s support during the previous referendum which of course took place ‘after’ Heath had been kicked out of office by Wilson.Therefore,as Tory leader and Prime Minister,she didn’t inherit it from Heath at all.She actually inherited EEC membership,together with all the implications of that as pointed out and realised by the no campaign during that referendum led by Shore etc,from Wilson and Callaghan that ‘she herself’ had supported membership of during that referendum.
Carryfast:
‘…As those figures which I posted previously show the British economy has never had better growth figures than those between 1965-72…’
Yes, we agree that it was the post war recovery from desolation despite the nation’s clapped out infrastructure and rising antagonism from the abuses of power from the unions and management’s reluctance to spend too much (anything?) on R&D
If only the UK knew then what we know now
But we do
Carryfast:
‘…What Thatcher actually inherited was the results of Heath’s idea of joining the EEC…’
Again, we’ve agreed that as well
So if she had U-turned then she’d be alright
Carryfast:
‘… Britain’s continuing EEC/EU membership,at that time,when Thatcher was put into office,was actually the result of Wilson’s,Callaghan’s,‘and’ Thatcher’s support during the previous referendum …’
Yes, and again as agreed, it was the ‘Yes’ campaign as funded (ten times more than the ‘No’ campaign) by the EU/Common Market using our money to fund it from still unaudted accounts: We’ve been here already
Carryfast:
‘…She actually inherited EEC membership,together with all the implications of that as pointed out and realised by the no campaign during that referendum led by Shore etc…’
See above: we know, we know, we know
So the enemy has revealed itself as the EU which, when compared with Maggies failure not to U-turn on Common Market membership, (and Shore’s hopeless representation against it) continues to place the EU into the Naughty Corner in lieu of him and her.
Two wrongs don’t make a right and we can’t undo history but we can vote to leave the EU: Sorted
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…As those figures which I posted previously show the British economy has never had better growth figures than those between 1965-72…’Yes, we agree that it was the post war recovery from desolation despite the nation’s clapped out infrastructure and rising antagonism from the abuses of power from the unions and management’s reluctance to spend too much (anything?) on R&D
If only the UK knew then what we know now
Carryfast:
‘…What Thatcher actually inherited was the results of Heath’s idea of joining the EEC…’Again, we’ve agreed that as well
So if she had U-turned then she’d be alright
Carryfast:
‘… Britain’s continuing EEC/EU membership,at that time,when Thatcher was put into office,was actually the result of Wilson’s,Callaghan’s,‘and’ Thatcher’s support during the previous referendum …’Yes, and again as agreed, it was the ‘Yes’ campaign as funded (ten times more than the ‘No’ campaign) by the EU/Common Market using our money to fund it from still unaudted accounts: We’ve been here already
Carryfast:
‘…She actually inherited EEC membership,together with all the implications of that as pointed out and realised by the no campaign during that referendum led by Shore etc…’See above: we know, we know, we know
So the enemy has revealed itself as the EU which, when compared with Maggies failure not to U-turn on Common Market membership, (and Shore’s hopeless representation against it) continues to place the EU into the Naughty Corner in lieu of him and her.
Two wrongs don’t make a right and we can’t undo history but we can vote to leave the EU: Sorted
I’ll try again.
Thatcher,as a leader of her Party and the country,‘actually’ inherited EEC/EU membership from Wilson and Callaghan which was something that ‘she’ ‘herself’ ‘supported’ against the better judgement of ‘others’ who no surprise in Britain being Britain never got into office while a complete failure like her (and Wilson and Callaghan) did.Thatcher’s reasons for wanting to be a member of the EEC/EU,like those of being involved in the global free market economy,were all about being tied to the wishes of what the big business community wanted.
Which then brings us up to date after numerous other British no hoper failures in office like Blair and Cam and Clegg to the only alternative being a leader of a political party with self confessed Thatcherite tendencies and who’s priorities as always are towards those of big business interests in keeping links with the said EU and global free market economy.
Sorry if I don’t share your optimism or view.But you’re right two wrongs don’t make a right which is why I won’t be voting for anything to do with Farage.Or for that matter I won’t be voting on a tactical basis,as I’ve done in the past,ever again.Which is why I’ll with hold my vote until some politicians with similar views regarding economics and immigration as those of Shore and Powell come along again.Wether we get a rerendum on EU membership in the current climate and with just Farage being the only option is therefore irrelevant in my view being that at best it would just be a case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Carryfast:
I’ll try again.Thatcher,as a leader of her Party and the country,‘actually’ inherited EEC/EU membership from Wilson and Callaghan which was something that ‘she’ ‘herself’ ‘supported’ against the better judgement of ‘others’ who no surprise in Britain being Britain never got into office while a complete failure like her (and Wilson and Callaghan) did.Thatcher’s reasons for wanting to be a member of the EEC/EU,like those of being involved in the global free market economy,were all about being tied to the wishes of what the big business community wanted.
Which then brings us up to date after numerous other British no hoper failures in office like Blair and Cam and Clegg to the only alternative being a leader of a political party with self confessed Thatcherite tendencies and who’s priorities as always are towards those of big business interests in keeping links with the said EU and global free market economy.
Sorry if I don’t share your optimism or view.But you’re right two wrongs don’t make a right which is why I won’t be voting for anything to do with Farage.Or for that matter I won’t be voting on a tactical basis,as I’ve done in the past,ever again.Which is why I’ll with hold my vote until some politicians with similar views regarding economics and immigration as those of Shore and Powell come along again.Wether we get a rerendum on EU membership in the current climate and with just Farage being the only option is therefore irrelevant in my view being that at best it would just be a case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
So, in a nutshell, you have nothing to offer to “improve” the situation, apart from bleating on (and on) about what might have been if we, the electorate, had voted for an almost made it, but now dead, polititian. By the way, “almost made it” is a definition of a loser. Why should we think your loser is better than my choice of past Glorious Leader, who did make it into the top job, and therefore could be considered a winner. Certainly she won the battle with the union twonks. Where as your guy won what? Most people couldn’t even tell you who he was, while everyone can tell you who Mrs Thatcher was (is).
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
I’ll try again.Thatcher,as a leader of her Party and the country,‘actually’ inherited EEC/EU membership from Wilson and Callaghan which was something that ‘she’ ‘herself’ ‘supported’ against the better judgement of ‘others’ who no surprise in Britain being Britain never got into office while a complete failure like her (and Wilson and Callaghan) did.Thatcher’s reasons for wanting to be a member of the EEC/EU,like those of being involved in the global free market economy,were all about being tied to the wishes of what the big business community wanted.
Which then brings us up to date after numerous other British no hoper failures in office like Blair and Cam and Clegg to the only alternative being a leader of a political party with self confessed Thatcherite tendencies and who’s priorities as always are towards those of big business interests in keeping links with the said EU and global free market economy.
Sorry if I don’t share your optimism or view.But you’re right two wrongs don’t make a right which is why I won’t be voting for anything to do with Farage.Or for that matter I won’t be voting on a tactical basis,as I’ve done in the past,ever again.Which is why I’ll with hold my vote until some politicians with similar views regarding economics and immigration as those of Shore and Powell come along again.Wether we get a rerendum on EU membership in the current climate and with just Farage being the only option is therefore irrelevant in my view being that at best it would just be a case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
So, in a nutshell, you have nothing to offer to “improve” the situation, apart from bleating on (and on) about what might have been if we, the electorate, had voted for an almost made it, but now dead, polititian. By the way, “almost made it” is a definition of a loser. Why should we think your loser is better than my choice of past Glorious Leader, who did make it into the top job, and therefore could be considered a winner. Certainly she won the battle with the union twonks. Where as your guy won what? Most people couldn’t even tell you who he was, while everyone can tell you who Mrs Thatcher was (is).
That says it all.So Thatcher the ‘glorious leader’,who supported EU membership,and then won a battle against her own people,which made them poorer,while making the Germans,Russians,and the Chinese Communist Party better off was a ‘winner’ in your view.
Which is why we should all rush out now to vote for another one just like her but who just happens to be ‘a bit’ more Euro sceptic than she was to the point of taking advantage,of the British people’s belated realisation,that the Thatcherite dream has a ‘few’ flaws in it,by now making them think they’ll be better off by putting their trust in him to take us even further into the mire of the global free market economy including obviously keeping all the ties which we have with the EU which benefit big business like the import of cheap labour and continuing the import of EU manufactured goods.All,of course,with the aim of keeping the supply of labour here higher than demand and therefore the average British worker in low wage employment.
But no I’m not saying if only the electorate ‘had’ voted then for someone better than Callaghan and Thatcher in the mid-late 1970’s who’d put the interests of the average worker above those of big business.I’m saying that the electorate actually needs to do so ‘now’ assuming there are any out there ( unlikely ) and assuming that it’s not too late already to even bother ( likely ).