Just out of interest, are there massive queues at the Swiss borders, such as predicted for the UK? This is after all a country landlocked by EU countries.
John.
HRS:
Glad you agree with the boring bit but you have me with the “not all true”, to be honest, I would’nt know. Harvey
The clue is in the contradiction between ‘tailored EU deal’’ v adopts 0% of EU rules which is an oxymoron.The fact is Switzerland has to sell out its system of direct democracy to the supremacy of EU ruling on numerous issues including EU immigration policy and having to contribute to the EU budget as part of that ‘tailored deal’.In which case trying to tie us to the Swiss example would actually help the remain cause of so called ‘soft Brexit’.While only a ‘no deal’ Brexit will possibly deliver what we actually voted for.
For many a long year now I’ve had a passing interest in the politics of the day and now with Brexit it brings a whole new dimension to politics with an increasing mistrust of our elected members of parliament to speak up for us. I guess a lot of incentive persuasion goes on behind the scenes that the public are not privy to. I was for the Common Market in 1975 but definitely not what it has become.
Leave Means Leave with the main man at 49mins the Labour guy after him is not bad either. youtube.com/watch?v=LVFgacPqpbk
Oily
HELLO - Wakey Wakey:
Obviously, those hauliers that only worked in the UK won’t understand but those that took our exports abroad to earn money for UK PLC will:
I fear that permits will become digital so no more hookey permits (I & many others were quite good at them) so who will carry the freight? it will be the EU hauliers because they won’t need transit permits for the UK unless they are going to Ireland
whisperingsmith:
HELLO - Wakey Wakey:Obviously, those hauliers that only worked in the UK won’t understand but those that took our exports abroad to earn money for UK PLC will:
Turkey border gridlock hints at pain to come for Brexit Britain
I fear that permits will become digital so no more hookey permits (I & many others were quite good at them) so who will carry the freight? it will be the EU hauliers because they won’t need transit permits for the UK unless they are going to Ireland
If the EU wants to count transit journeys as subject to quota permits then we can just as easily count any such quota imposition as being subject to an equivalent reduction in permits for all freight journeys to/from the UK.IE who says that we have to play by any rules in that regard ?.In addition to stopping all third country operations as part of that.
HRS:
Good morning all,
I think there is a limit to how much can be said by any one person on any one subject without it getting a little boring and this is why I like these posters.
Of course we dont know how true they all are but it does make a point.
I voted to leave because I did not like the way we were being milked by a very large,and growing organisation and our independance slowly being eroded, right or wrong we shall all see.
However after listening to all the in/out talks the way we are being treated by the EU makes me realize I was right. Harvey
Shall we try to avoid any boredom by working out how valid/true that poster`s contents are?
“Not in the EU, still in Europe”. True. Can` argue with geography, can we?
“Free trade deals with…” Largely true. Largely because Switzerland is part of EFTA.
“Exports 5x more to the EU than UK”. What??
It exports 5 times more to the EU than it does to the UK? (A)
OR It exports 5 times more to the EU than the UK does? (B)
Not clear what it means is it?
If (A), since the EU is bigger than the UK its no surprise. Doesnt really mean much does it? They would export more to a larger market.
If (B), in 2016, CH exported 140Billion Eu to the EU. (Eurostat). The UK exported £241 Billion to the EU. (researchbriefings.parliament).
Can`t be that can it?
Unless of course the line is worded to “suggest” one thing, but means something altogether different?
“Adopts 0% of EU rules”.
It does obey EU rules in order to gain access to the EU market.
As a member of EFTA, similarly to Norway it has no input into EU rules. It can of course refuse to accept EU rules at any time, and consequently it could be refused access to EU markets.
It has been part of the EU free movement of labour zone for years, and is also part of the Schengen zone.
So, that statement is, IMHO, 100% bollix.
“Has the highest wages in Europe”.
If the worlds richest people choose to live in a "low" (personal income for high earners) tax country like CH the average wage will be inflated wont it? A lot of film stars, sport stars, etc being domiciled there will put the average up.
Minimum collective agreements show a minimum wage of 2,200 Fr.CH or about £1,600 per month.
Switzerland is 75% more expensive than the UK… maybe having higher wages doesn`t mean so much anyway…
minimum-wage.org/international/switzerland
numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … witzerland
“2nd richest country…” What? Calculated how?
If we assume it is worked out on total income averaged over the whole population?? Then having loads of cash in its bank deposits wont mean much to the average working citizen will it? True or not doesn`t matter as it seems irrelevant to…everything.
“1st in world global innovation”. True.
In fact 50% of the countries in the top dozen are fully in the EU. And 75% are close trading partners with the EU.
So maybe the EU is good for innovation overall and the Swiss benefit from their their close relations with the EU?
Maybe being in the EU is totally irrelevant to placement on this GII table?
“Doing rather well”. Taking that at face value, Switzerland is probably doing well.
That doesnt necessarily mean all its citizens are doing well.
Some of it`s position is due to the close trading ties it has with the EU. Would close or looser ties make Switzerland “do better” or not? Who knows?
> Carryfast:
> If the EU wants to count transit journeys as subject to quota permits then we can just as easily count any such quota imposition as being subject to an equivalent reduction in permits for all freight journeys to/from the UK.IE who says that we have to play by any rules in that regard ?.In addition to stopping all third country operations as part of that.
> [/quote]
> [/i]
>
> Wakey Wakey CF
>
> Its transit Permits - like we used to have pre EU & the DOT now DaFT controlled it
> We couldn’t get permits because UK civil Servants (mainly English) insisted on a bilateral Quota system based on transit
>
> Most UK hauliers needed to go beyond Holland/Belguim/France, therefore, needing transit permits
>
> Very few German Hauliers needed to transit the Uk to Ireland, hence the Bilateral system promoted by UK plc led to the majority
> of UK hauliers using hookey permits
>
> If you want to transit Europe 70% of the time you need to go through Germay
>
> Since when did driving a dustcart in the home counties of England give you so much experience of the outside world beyond the Daily Fail & The Sun ? 
whisperingsmith:
> Carryfast:
> If the EU wants to count transit journeys as subject to quota permits then we can just as easily count any such quota imposition as being subject to an equivalent reduction in permits for all freight journeys to/from the UK.IE who says that we have to play by any rules in that regard ?.In addition to stopping all third country operations as part of that.
> [/quote]
> [/i]
>
> Wakey Wakey CF
>
> Its transit Permits - like we used to have pre EU & the DOT now DaFT controlled it
> We couldn’t get permits because UK civil Servants (mainly English) insisted on a bilateral Quota system based on transit
>
> Most UK hauliers needed to go beyond Holland/Belguim/France, therefore, needing transit permits
>
> Very few German Hauliers needed to transit the Uk to Ireland, hence the Bilateral system promoted by UK plc led to the majority
> of UK hauliers using hookey permits
>
> If you want to transit Europe 70% of the time you need to go through Germay
>
> Since when did driving a dustcart in the home counties of England give you so much experience of the outside world beyond the Daily Fail & The Sun ?
To be fair I’m an ex council driver who does hold a National and International CPC although I’ve forgotten a lot more than I learn’t to pass the exams.However the common sense that got me through tells me that when some German official says that crossing his country to get to Italy counts towards the German quota regarding UK Germany freight journeys for example he’s having a laugh and should have been told to do one.Bearing in mind that the definition of ‘bi lateral’ permits is the total opposite to a system which counts transit as part of that.IE ‘bilateral’ means a Brit truck does a return trip to Italy then an Italian truck earns the right to do same.It doesn’t mean a free for all for every country on route to get their snouts in
the trough.
While yes we know that the UK government is just as bad being a truck hating bunch of treacherous back stabbers.Staying in the EU won’t fix that.
Others - Buzzer for instance, will be well aware of what’s going on in European Transport, but it’s a fascinating documentary about who drives, for how much, and for which company. Some vicious exploitation.
facebook.com/FNVonline/vide … 13814/?t=2
John.
John West:
Others - Buzzer for instance, will be well aware of what’s going on in European Transport, but it’s a fascinating documentary about who drives, for how much, and for which company. Some vicious exploitation.facebook.com/FNVonline/vide … 13814/?t=2
John.
John thanks for that little film as it is very informative, we all knew it was going on and still is but no one is willing to take action and in the end the problem extends to the way British companies run, some UK outfits use these drivers to try and compete but in the end it just crucifies our industry and that is why we now run only ten trucks and sub contract any excess. Britain always does things to the letter of the law and we suffer for that and from the heydays of the 90’s when we ran 33 artics mainly on international duties the exports were done roughly on a 50/50 basis back then with foreign counterparts but today only about 13% of export traffic is done by the Brits and those who used to do it have either gone over to domestic haulage or gone bust and out of the job.
We could do something to curb this and charge a minimum of say £200 to go anywhere in the British isles for any foreign truck and before any one shouts foul play just see how far you get in the EU on £200 and you will see where I am coming from and I can assure anyone it aint that far. At the moment the foreigners must be laughing at us as they pay virtually nought to use our road systems and they can run without weekend restrictions and few checks on there records and if they are stopped and fined they just pee off back over the channel without paying, something that should be changed but I feel it wont be in the time I have left on this planet, even back in my days as a driver the paper work had to be right and it was checked frequently throughout journeys and if it was wrong you paid albeit not as much as today.
When and if we do leave the EU we as a country should clamp down on this but I doubt ought will happen, Buzzer.
I am really looking forward to a no-deal Brexit when it all comes crashing down around these vile companies’ ears. The EU has known about this for years, it clearly breaks their precious principles but the mantra is as always ■■■■ up to big business. The merry-go-round gravy train is still going but the swing is coming back in t’other direction now, bloody nose on the way. Lovely Jubbly bring it on. 
What a fantastic opportunty presents itself for Hino and the other far eastern manufacturers to set up in the UK and we can all stick two fingers up at Barnier, Macron,Tuft & that Verhofstat thing.
While that film depicts a horror story, of which, as Buzzer says, many of us have long known about, all the activities described come under the heading of organised crime, there is no other way to describe it. These are crimes because they are against the law, European Union law, the Union in which the UK has participated for very many years. The answer is to prosecute.
So why have these large companies not been prosecuted, the documentary evidence that many of these drivers apparently have (one for each country) would be evidence enough?
So why has nothing been done? Whatever the answer to that question is, it is unknown to us. Votes, bribes, threats? Who knows? But the fact remains that this has been done in the name of the UK as well as the other countries in the EU.
So, my last question is. How does anyone think that leaving the EU will suddenly galvanise the ‘newly liberated’ UK into action? It won’t, whatever stopped the UK from acting before will be even more relevant when it is on its own, even more nervous about offending suppliers and customers in other countries.
Oh, and Cav, why on earth would Hino, or anyone else outside of the EU, dream of setting up in Britain. So that they can be totally isolated like all the others who struggle in the cold? I don’t think so.
Hey Spardo you aint half quick to put down any success the UK might have after Brexit, in my eyes it would be a little more prudent to wait and see as many times it has been stated on this thread no one really knows what is going to be the outcome. You can speculate if you will but we wont know that for several years to come and I sincerely hope it is for the good.
As you said none of these EU members want to do ought about these eastern European drivers or in fact the companies they work for who really should be the ones punished but at the end of the day they are the ones doing the driving and they all know what they are doing is corrupt and against the law, not that I like unions at any level but maybe they would benefit from such an organisation, just a thought Buzzer.
NO COMMENT ON THE BREXIT HOWEVER is the RHA. not the type of union for the companies ,or are they non existent ,they must play role in the uk transport if they do exist.pdb.
cav551:
What a fantastic opportunty presents itself for Hino and the other far eastern manufacturers to set up in the UK and we can all stick two fingers up at Barnier, Macron,Tuft & that Verhofstat thing.
A similar situation as New Zealand,in which if the customer prefers a Kenworth or a Western Star etc with engine of choice and Fuller box,as opposed to a Hino or Scania/Volvo/Merc/MAN/DAF,they can have one, sounds even better.Especially if given local production operations here. 
Fricken hell heard it all now as we have Bob bighead Geldof calling for a second Brexit vote the Irish reject, he says it will destroy the music industry what a load of cods wollop and really I could not give a flying truck as the money they get, cant say earn is ridiculous, Buzzer.
Well said, Buzzer. I’ve also seen on the news this morning that the SNP are having another push for a second Independence referendum. Let’s just imagine that the vote goes their way - will they be happy to stop receiving Whitehall money?
Buzzer:
Fricken hell heard it all now as we have Bob bighead Geldof calling for a second Brexit vote the Irish reject, he says it will destroy the music industry.
Absolutely.Just look at the Brit music industry of the 1960’s early '70’s it was a disaster compared to our ‘Common Market’ neighbours.Oh wait.Although who cares when today’s so called ‘music’ means a computer playing whatever repetitive crap they want to programme it with and left playing it for 5 minutes.
fodenway:
I’ve also seen on the news this morning that the SNP are having another push for a second Independence referendum.
Strange idea of ‘Independence’ that means being ruled by the EU not the UK. 
Buzzer:
Fricken hell heard it all now as we have Bob bighead Geldof calling for a second Brexit vote the Irish reject, he says it will destroy the music industry what a load of cods wollop and really I could not give a flying truck as the money they get, cant say earn is ridiculous, Buzzer.
To be fare, If you had snorted what he has you would probably vote for an early Christmas. Harvey