5thwheel:
Don’t worry about your pension not being accessible from your UK bank account,my son lives in the UK,and you send your pension monies into that account,I will of course pass it on to your French bank account,lol,lol!
It’s scare mongering again,the U.K. doesn’t want us aged pensioners back,the NHS is already overloaded with oldies,they don’t want any more!!!
David
Never thought of that, very devious thinking. I could get my daughter to do the same, I’m sure she could manage the hoops we have to jump through just to transfer the money, and, as I am so very worried about the NHS, I will do my very best not to to go back and burden it.
5thwheel:
Don’t worry about your pension not being accessible from your UK bank account,my son lives in the UK,and you send your pension monies into that account,I will of course pass it on to your French bank account,lol,lol!
It’s scare mongering again,the U.K. doesn’t want us aged pensioners back,the NHS is already overloaded with oldies,they don’t want any more!!!
David
Never thought of that, very devious thinking. I could get my daughter to do the same, I’m sure she could manage the hoops we have to jump through just to transfer the money, and, as I am so very worried about the NHS, I will do my very best not to to go back and burden it.
That’s the spirit Spardo,stiff upper lip all that!!!
Ah got it Spardo lets do a Trump, build a wall right down the middle of the channel with big guns at each end and along the top and blow up the tunnel while we are at it stop all traffic both ways.
Oh and while we are at it don’t worry we wont starve here in Blighty as the EU aint the only food producing nation in the world, and we don’t need there produce to survive (we did not have any during WW2 did we and at the end of the day we can live on baked beans eh, wonder how many ways you can do them, just saying Buzzer.
Farmers what are they? it’s all massive agri-business round here operating the subsidy system - XYZ farms plc. Brand new massive John Deere machines, brand new implements of enormous size, telehandlers driven around with spikes and forks sticking out the front to harpoon the unwary, low loader trailers carrying large 360 machines 20 or more miles. Funny how the 20 year old Massey Ferguson, be it tractor or combine, used to manage while now they need a brand new combine every two or three years to sit in the barn for 10 + months of the year. We have one company around here who got miffed that they couldn’t get an operators licence, so the company now has two of the largest John Deeres towing full size drawbar trailers around with a load which would really fit on the back of a couple of Transits; doubtless to be renewed when the tyres wear out. Only sign these days of old equipment is among the growers with their fleets - yes fleets - of clapped out old single deck buses ferrying their cheap foreign labour around and blocking up the supermarket carparks. The cheap labour who live in knackered caravans hidden up amongst the trees so prying eyes can’t see the squalid conditions they are expected to live in; and of course because there is no planning permission for such ‘dwellings’.
Short of food after Brexit? how about not paying them for ‘set aside’ ?
Buzzer:
Ah got it Spardo lets do a Trump, build a wall right down the middle of the channel with big guns at each end and along the top and blow up the tunnel while we are at it stop all traffic both ways.
Errr, have you asked your sons what they think about that? Or have they already clipped the word ‘International’ from their logo?
cav551:
CBI, Rail Delivery Group, British Retail Consortium, National Farmers Union - all the same… leeches looking for someone else to pick up the bill.
We may not like Just In Time, but that’s the way the world works today…
The production model doesn’t matter.If you really want the fastest delivery one then how does spreading the operation across Europe help with all the resulting logistics headaches.When we could quite happily make a plane here from foundry to finished product and did resulting in a far less stretched out supply chain.So why are Brit manufacturers so keen on giving away work to our foreign competitors.While even at the basic defence level we’d obviously now be living under the 3rd Reich if we’d have had that model in the 1930’s.Picture the scene no Spitfires able to fly because our European manufacturing base,on which we are dependent for components,has been over run.
As for the NFU Spardo conveniently didn’t explain why they suddenly changed their tune from moaning about unnecessary foreign imports saturating the UK market and calling on Brit shoppers to buy British.To now supporting the status quo of a trade relationship which is mostly about importing stuff we don’t need and which we can produce for ourselves,like the net contributions bill,effectively being a Euro foreign aid exercise.Let me guess they’ve weighed up the potential loss of EU subsidies and hopefully the end of easy access to low wage expectation East Euro labour.
Buzzer:
cav551 mentioned the National Farmers Union now that’s a subject with in the EU I just cannot get my head round, Millions paid out in subsidies to farmers mostly or mega rich landowners, this cannot be right or ethical, some will say farmers could not survive without these huge payouts. In and around the New Forest I know lots of farming folk who now have brand new John Deere tractors and equipment something years ago you just would not see all funded by EU money, years gone by they would have made do with a Massey or Fordson major tractor but not now, I know things have moved on but why farming.
If John Smith say who runs a heating and plumbing business has a hard time no one is giving him handouts to keep going, if he cant cut the mustard he just goes to the wall. This should be the same in farming, then there are those who say ah but food will cost more well so be it, if the right price was paid in the first place they would not need subsidies.
I’ll sit back with me hard hat on and await the flack, Buzzer.
The difference is if a plumber goes to the wall then there will be another one who actually benefits from the reduced competition.
But farming actually feeds us and we need all we can get and it’s only right that we give it all the help it needs.On that note I’d guess that there is some logic to the set aside subsidy in that it is possible to over use farmland to the point of making it an infertile dust bowl and set aside is just one of the essential parts of the farming rotation system used for centuries to help stop that.While it’s obvious that doing whatever it takes to provide farmers with the most efficient machinery is also an important part of that.Ironically I’d guess that Brexit could be a great help in actually reaching an optimum compromise of providing Brit farming with an even greater domestic market share and stopping any financial abuse of the set aside system therefore using the increased revenues earn’t to make it more financially self sustaining.
As for abuse of the set aside system.We’ve also got the issue of huge amounts of fertile green belt land in the South East being deliberately left unused and degraded in the hope that zb’s like Vince Cable will get their way in releasing it for house building to house more immigrants.Great idea we lose potential food production in the most favourable growing climate in the country while the zb then says we can’t feed ourselves requiring more EU agricultural imports.
Buzzer:
Ah got it Spardo lets do a Trump, build a wall right down the middle of the channel with big guns at each end and along the top and blow up the tunnel while we are at it stop all traffic both ways.
Errr, have you asked your sons what they think about that? Or have they already clipped the word ‘International’ from their logo?
We do far less International work now so not so important as it used to be, anyways I was just being facetious to try and appeal to your sarcastic side which by your snide remarks to other posts on this thread you obviously have, you seem to think we will be doomed if we ever get out of this hell hole mess with no strings attached. But I believe when and if we do get closure it will be like a pack of collapsing cards and other EU members will follow our lead and bring about the downfall of the whole corrupt system as we know it today, here’s hoping so, Buzzer.
Buzzer:
I believe when and if we do get closure it will be like a pack of collapsing cards and other EU members will follow our lead and bring about the downfall of the whole corrupt system as we know it today, here’s hoping so, Buzzer.
Ironically if it was that simple it would have evolved by now into the obvious Confederal Europe solution that it should have been from the start.The Federalist scumbags of all shades from Soviet style Commies,to Elitist zb’s like Juncker and their quislings here,who’ve hijacked Europe’s nation states,won’t give up without a fight of one form or another and I’d be very surprised if they don’t succeed in derailing Brexit as part of that.
Buzzer:
Ah got it Spardo lets do a Trump, build a wall right down the middle of the channel with big guns at each end and along the top and blow up the tunnel while we are at it stop all traffic both ways.
Errr, have you asked your sons what they think about that? Or have they already clipped the word ‘International’ from their logo?
We do far less International work now so not so important as it used to be, anyways I was just being facetious to try and appeal to your sarcastic side which by your snide remarks to other posts on this thread you obviously have, you seem to think we will be doomed if we ever get out of this hell hole mess with no strings attached. But I believe when and if we do get closure it will be like a pack of collapsing cards and other EU members will follow our lead and bring about the downfall of the whole corrupt system as we know it today, here’s hoping so, Buzzer.
I speak as I find:
Definition of snide
derogatory or mocking in an indirect way.
synonyms: disparaging, derogatory, deprecating, deprecatory, denigratory, insulting, vituperative, disapproving, contemptuous;
A bit like you telling me I wasn’t allowed to contribute to this thread because of my postcode, perhaps?
Not to mention cutting peoples’ fingers off and chucking them out of aeroplanes. Not to mention it because it is way beyond snide, your extremist xenophobia, bordering on racism.
In any case, I did take your remarks humourously, and again, replied in kind, thus the
Whoa there spardo no one can bar you from contributing to any thread because of your postcode not even me and not that you would take any notice anyways but I am not the only one on here who thinks that if you aint in the kitchen you cant cook if you get my drift. My comments about cutting fingers of for thieving and chucking people out of planes without parachutes who don’t belong here because they gained access to this country by foul means, well you and I both know none of this will ever happen because of human rights but that does not mean it would not work if it was put into practice, Its good to have a bit of humour it helps the day along, Buzzer
PS. ha ha you must have an Oxford Concise dictionary just like mine to get the definitions of all those big words.
Buzzer:
Whoa there spardo no one can bar you from contributing to any thread because of your postcode not even me and not that you would take any notice anyways but I am not the only one on here who thinks that if you aint in the kitchen you cant cook if you get my drift. My comments about cutting fingers of for thieving and chucking people out of planes without parachutes who don’t belong here because they gained access to this country by foul means, well you and I both know none of this will ever happen because of human rights but that does not mean it would not work if it was put into practice, Its good to have a bit of humour it helps the day along, Buzzer
PS. ha ha you must have an Oxford Concise dictionary just like mine to get the definitions of all those big words.
I know you can’t bar me. otherwise I wouldn’t still be here, but it’s true that you said I ought to be. It’s true you are not the only one who thinks that way, but it is also true that there are others who think the opposite.
PS. ha ha snide is not a big word, that is why I only needed Google, not Oxford to point it out to you.
Buzzer:
Whoa there spardo no one can bar you from contributing to any thread because of your postcode not even me and not that you would take any notice anyways but I am not the only one on here who thinks that if you aint in the kitchen you cant cook if you get my drift. My comments about cutting fingers of for thieving and chucking people out of planes without parachutes who don’t belong here because they gained access to this country by foul means, well you and I both know none of this will ever happen because of human rights but that does not mean it would not work if it was put into practice, Its good to have a bit of humour it helps the day along, Buzzer
PS. ha ha you must have an Oxford Concise dictionary just like mine to get the definitions of all those big words.
I know you can’t bar me. otherwise I wouldn’t still be here, but it’s true that you said I ought to be. It’s true you are not the only one who thinks that way, but it is also true that there are others who think the opposite.
PS. ha ha snide is not a big word, that is why I only needed Google, not Oxford to point it out to you.
Its a good book to have as when you are typing and it shows you its spelt it wrong you can check and get the correct version, never thought of googling, Buzzer.
A question for C.F. and Cav if I may?
I do agree with you in having doubts about long international supply chains and deliberately small buffer stocks in production lines.
But it is private companies that decide these are the models they want isn’t it?
Competitive free companies looking after their own interests. It may be very true that the national interest could be better served by other methods, I’ll agree.
That’s what central command economies try isn’t it? Surely you don’t think a central command economy in Whitehall could order Toyota to use a different widget supplier?
So what do we do? Order them to change their production lines? Nationalise them?
In the Real World of international ownership of companies, investors who move around and have seemingly zero allegiance to any one country, what’s to do?
You’re pointing to a real problem, and I’m wondering how to cure it.
There we are. A golden opportunity for you to shout “Brexit” of course, but let’s have an explanation of HOW it could work here and now in the Real World.
A question for Buzzer now if I can?
I’ll agree with you that the EU farming subsidies are a bloody mass. No question.
But let’s look at the options,can we?
Some suggest we simply but food from cheaper sources: if we aren’t tied to the EU we can get non EU subsidised, and therefore cheaper food from ? US, South America, wherever? OK.
If we do this own farmers will be able to sell…nothing… their produce will be too expensive. We will have even less “food security”.
So do we put import tariffs on imported foods to give our own farmers a chance? Well, that’s the New Free Trade agreements outside the EU thrown out the window isn’t it? If we won’t but their food without tax they won’t be buying our widgets or using our banks will they?
So is that why we have the CAP in the EU? It serves a purpose, but has grown into a fat cow, milked by landowners?
And another question I have. How happy would we be if we need to put a plough to Lyndhurst lawn to grow tatties and corn? We could produce more food ourselves, true, but England may not be such a “green and pleasant land” if we went into more intensive farming methods?
So we all know, I’m asking questions but won’t be marking your answers as I don’t even pretend to have any answers! [WHITE SMILING FACE]
The problems started a long time ago with governments in this country who were focused solely on getting themselves re-elected , so could look no further than the end of their noses. Rather than tell the British public that if they wanted something they had to pay for it, which meant a significant level of taxation they bought their next term in office by ignoring the elephant. They sold off the family silver to what in many instances turned out to be practically the lowest bidder in order to keep the country staggering along for the next few years - until they had to do it again. They allowed vital industries: coal, steel, shipbuilding to enter terminal decline, in the case of the first from pure political malice… little short of treason. The political class doesn’t like the thought of gettiing its hands dirty so anything which encouraged not having to do so was the name of the game, which led to corporate greed becoming God. Hedge funds and asset management became the respectable alternative to muck and graft. Hostile takeovers were not prevented of viable medium size companies, often with the sole aim of asset stripping, frequently by insitutions with no knowledge of how to run that business nor with any intention of doing so. Meanwhile governments allowed themselves to be dictated to by these ever larger multinational companies, but not just dictated to, they were given huge sums of taxpayers money to ‘promise’ to operate in this country, with no guarantee of either for how long, nor to source any percentage their components from from within the UK. While this was going on the age of consumerism was born - the object really being to keep the hoi-poloi quiet by letting themselves get into debt and hence fearful for their jobs but in the meantime creating a false boom which made for re-election.
Now I cannot stand the man, but Trump seems to be the only one to have woken up to the fact that this cannot continue, something has to be done to put the interests of the individual and hence the country before that of big business. Whether he is right or wrong we shall see, there is a lot of noise currently that he is wrong, but that is coming from those with a vested interest in the staus quo.
So first thoughts only, how are we going to deal with this mess? There are going to have to be honest, transparent tax rises to pay for the projects which have to be financed by the state. There will have to be some nationalisation of essential service (which should never have been sold in the first place) and that without the compensation to companies, their accountants and laywers deem necessary so no more allowing the profits and tax receipts to go offshore. A massive shake up of the financial services industry will be essential. Pension companies especially will have to invest the major part of their portfolio in the UK. To deter just in time and high mileage component sourcing there will need to be a percentage by volume and by value and assembly of home sourced components, prompted by a tax on energy consumed and the distance travelled necessary for the completion of manufacture, if a company wishes to sell its product in the UK. Finally if you wish to trade in this country then accounts will be filed in the country and tax paid in this country.
Franglais:
A question for C.F. and Cav if I may?
I do agree with you in having doubts about long international supply chains and deliberately small buffer stocks in production lines.
But it is private companies that decide these are the models they want isn’t it?
Competitive free companies looking after their own interests. It may be very true that the national interest could be better served by other methods, I’ll agree.
That’s what central command economies try isn’t it? Surely you don’t think a central command economy in Whitehall could order Toyota to use a different widget supplier?
So what do we do? Order them to change their production lines? Nationalise them?
In the Real World of international ownership of companies, investors who move around and have seemingly zero allegiance to any one country, what’s to do?
You’re pointing to a real problem, and I’m wondering how to cure it.
There we are. A golden opportunity for you to shout “Brexit” of course, but let’s have an explanation of HOW it could work here and now in the Real World.
Surely it’s all about patriotism and the very real issue of the national interest.IE there’s not much point in waving the flag and remembering those who paid the ultimate price for their country.If we’re then going to say it all means nothing in the case of the nation’s economy and allowing it’s wealth creating industry to create that wealth elsewhere in the foreign interest.Let alone when it puts the defence of the country at risk.On that note it’s obvious that all those at shop floor level and management level were applying the national interest model first and foremost before we joined the EU.So who decided to change it.It certainly wasn’t them.
So let’s start with defence.It was dependent on private companies just the same for its supplies before and after we joined the EU including WW2.So we stop production of the Lightning and TSR2.In favour of Tornado and now Eurofighter.Then we potentially get into a shooting war with Russia and Germany is over run within a week and its factories easily taken out in no time by artillery fire let alone any need for tactical nukes.Where do we get our parts supplies from to keep our air force flying ?.That’s just the tactical reason.Which then leaves the carve up of jobs created by the things.Which as usual means the insult of UK taxes spent on defence going to create German jobs.MTU aero engines being just one example.Added to the injury of Rolls Royce technology which ze Germans needed,being effectively nicked off us for the privilege.There are loads of other similar defence spending scams in which contracts for stuff previously supplied by UK manufacturers has now been awarded to mainly German suppliers.While even what we had left in the form of Vickers tank production was stopped.As in the case of air defence with no credible reason why it’s better to source outside the country.How is that supposedly in the national interest.Although to be fair I’d rather face a firing squad than fight in tanks anyway as it’s a much easier way to go although at least the Challenger way improved the odds for those who chose to risk it.
Buzzer:
cav551 mentioned the National Farmers Union now that’s a subject with in the EU I just cannot get my head round, Millions paid out in subsidies to farmers mostly or mega rich landowners, this cannot be right or ethical, some will say farmers could not survive without these huge payouts. In and around the New Forest I know lots of farming folk who now have brand new John Deere tractors and equipment something years ago you just would not see all funded by EU money, years gone by they would have made do with a Massey or Fordson major tractor but not now, I know things have moved on but why farming.
If John Smith say who runs a heating and plumbing business has a hard time no one is giving him handouts to keep going, if he cant cut the mustard he just goes to the wall. This should be the same in farming, then there are those who say ah but food will cost more well so be it, if the right price was paid in the first place they would not need subsidies.
I’ll sit back with me hard hat on and await the flack, Buzzer.
The difference is if a plumber goes to the wall then there will be another one who actually benefits from the reduced competition.
But farming actually feeds us and we need all we can get and it’s only right that we give it all the help it needs.On that note I’d guess that there is some logic to the set aside subsidy in that it is possible to over use farmland to the point of making it an infertile dust bowl and set aside is just one of the essential parts of the farming rotation system used for centuries to help stop that.While it’s obvious that doing whatever it takes to provide farmers with the most efficient machinery is also an important part of that.Ironically I’d guess that Brexit could be a great help in actually reaching an optimum compromise of providing Brit farming with an even greater domestic market share and stopping any financial abuse of the set aside system therefore using the increased revenues earn’t to make it more financially self sustaining.
As for abuse of the set aside system.We’ve also got the issue of huge amounts of fertile green belt land in the South East being deliberately left unused and degraded in the hope that zb’s like Vince Cable will get their way in releasing it for house building to house more immigrants.Great idea we lose potential food production in the most favourable growing climate in the country while the zb then says we can’t feed ourselves requiring more EU agricultural imports.
CF I used the plumber as an example it could be any business such as pound land, in the case of set aside most of this is a margin around a perfectly fertile field to the aid of wildlife preservation, Buzzer.
Franglais:
A question for Buzzer now if I can?
I’ll agree with you that the EU farming subsidies are a bloody mass. No question.
But let’s look at the options,can we?
Some suggest we simply but food from cheaper sources: if we aren’t tied to the EU we can get non EU subsidised, and therefore cheaper food from ? US, South America, wherever? OK.
If we do this own farmers will be able to sell…nothing… their produce will be too expensive. We will have even less “food security”.
So do we put import tariffs on imported foods to give our own farmers a chance? Well, that’s the New Free Trade agreements outside the EU thrown out the window isn’t it? If we won’t but their food without tax they won’t be buying our widgets or using our banks will they?
So is that why we have the CAP in the EU? It serves a purpose, but has grown into a fat cow, milked by landowners?
And another question I have. How happy would we be if we need to put a plough to Lyndhurst lawn to grow tatties and corn? We could produce more food ourselves, true, but England may not be such a “green and pleasant land” if we went into more intensive farming methods?
So we all know, I’m asking questions but won’t be marking your answers as I don’t even pretend to have any answers! [WHITE SMILING FACE]
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
We can control our imports here by import tax but my way of looking at it is food consumption in this country is the fact it is controlled by and large by the big five supermarkets who have tremendous buying power and they are Banks in themselves to boot, they get paid for goods when leaving there door no credit there but doubt there suppliers don’t enjoy such luxury.
On your other point seeing as you follow a lot of my input you will know I grow a lot of produce at home, this practice used to be widespread if you go back 30 or so years but people don’t want that any more. There lives are too busy and they want the easy option for example ready meals they can do in a pinger in a couple of minuets or eat out in McDonalds and the like and that’s why we have so many clinically obese people in the UK because they eat too much crap food and we are fast catching the USA up in that department, don’t know if that answers your queries but lets hope so, Buzzer.
Buzzer:
cav551 mentioned the National Farmers Union now that’s a subject with in the EU I just cannot get my head round, Millions paid out in subsidies to farmers mostly or mega rich landowners, this cannot be right or ethical, some will say farmers could not survive without these huge payouts. In and around the New Forest I know lots of farming folk who now have brand new John Deere tractors and equipment something years ago you just would not see all funded by EU money, years gone by they would have made do with a Massey or Fordson major tractor but not now, I know things have moved on but why farming.
If John Smith say who runs a heating and plumbing business has a hard time no one is giving him handouts to keep going, if he cant cut the mustard he just goes to the wall. This should be the same in farming, then there are those who say ah but food will cost more well so be it, if the right price was paid in the first place they would not need subsidies.
I’ll sit back with me hard hat on and await the flack, Buzzer.
The difference is if a plumber goes to the wall then there will be another one who actually benefits from the reduced competition.
But farming actually feeds us and we need all we can get and it’s only right that we give it all the help it needs.On that note I’d guess that there is some logic to the set aside subsidy in that it is possible to over use farmland to the point of making it an infertile dust bowl and set aside is just one of the essential parts of the farming rotation system used for centuries to help stop that.While it’s obvious that doing whatever it takes to provide farmers with the most efficient machinery is also an important part of that.Ironically I’d guess that Brexit could be a great help in actually reaching an optimum compromise of providing Brit farming with an even greater domestic market share and stopping any financial abuse of the set aside system therefore using the increased revenues earn’t to make it more financially self sustaining.
As for abuse of the set aside system.We’ve also got the issue of huge amounts of fertile green belt land in the South East being deliberately left unused and degraded in the hope that zb’s like Vince Cable will get their way in releasing it for house building to house more immigrants.Great idea we lose potential food production in the most favourable growing climate in the country while the zb then says we can’t feed ourselves requiring more EU agricultural imports.
CF I used the plumber as an example it could be any business such as pound land, in the case of set aside most of this is a margin around a perfectly fertile field to the aid of wildlife preservation, Buzzer.
I’d guess that would also fit the idea of Brexit giving us an opportunity to create the most ideal and beneficial compromise.IE no one surely wants a barren countryside devoid of wildlife and turned into a race to the bottom intensive farming factory.But then we also don’t want farmers holding the country to ransom on the basis of pay us loads of money or we trash the countryside.When surely it’s better tell them to look after it properly and there’ll be a reduction but not a wipe out of any environmental protection subsidy.But also offset by a more protected market for their products at home not a less protected one.Although that argument will obviously be for later after Brexit between those of us blindly following race to the bottom free markets philosophy.As opposed to those of us who don’t want to chuck the baby of England’s green and pleasant land out with the stinking EU bathwater.Think Hoey’s idea of Brexit v Mogg’s perhaps.
I could get my daughter to do the same, I’m sure she could manage the hoops we have to jump through just to transfer the money, and, as I am so very worried about the NHS, I will do my very best not to to go back and burden it. 
