Buzzer:
Does anyone know exactly how much each member state contributes annually into the pot, is it available for us to see or is that another thing lost as the EU’s non signed off accounts. Would make interesting reading no doubt and I for one would relish seeing the figures. And another point is who decides who should have what from the pot we just bumble on day to day and most of us haven’t a clue what goes on and who decides, does any one on here have the figures ? Buzzer.
One thing i bet we never get is an audit to see where every penny goes . Who gets what, because no accountants would touch it , corruption is the word that comes to mind
In the interests of clarity: fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor … eu-budget/
Not a shining example of fiscal propriety, to be sure.
Id agree that it has been a poor showing in the past, but is getting better today. Now its better than 98% accurate, not too bad for such a large organisation,maybe?
Not exactly a corrupt organisation either. 2% or more error isn`t the same as 2% or more theft.
And the entire EU expenditure, you`ll notice is less than the UK spends on the NHS. Not what many seem to believe.
Carryfast:
Also bearing in mind that Yeltsin was probably too ■■■■■■ to understand the implications of handing over Crimea after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in that regard…
Just a point of historical accuracy here, Yeltsin had nothing to do with the handing over of Crimea to Ukraine. That was done years before by Krushchev, himself a Ukrainian, and was therefore the basis of the Russian claim post USSR.
Certainly the Russians took advantage of the Ukrainian internal turmoil to make the claim fact. Whether the referendum there to rejoin Russia was fair or not is a seperate question. Also whether or not Crimea was always Russian is another question, it was not.
Personally I believe that the will of the majority is supreme so if the referendum there was just, then to me that is all that matters.
For the same reason I believe that the only justifiable wars Britain has fought in the last several hundred years were against the Romans and the Normans, unwanted invaders, and in the Falklands. If Spain threatened to retake Gibraltar by force, the same principle would apply. If the Germans had actually threatened British territory in 1914 and 1939, then again, but no-one will ever know if they would have done if we had not declared war on them first.
So how does all this relate to Brexit? A referendum was held on what we now know to have been a false premise. When the actual facts are known then that is the time to put the correct question to the people. If the result remains the same, Brexit, then I will be sad but will make the best of it. (or the least worst anyway, as it might force me to live in Britain again if the latest pension scares become fact).
Carryfast:
Also bearing in mind that Yeltsin was probably too ■■■■■■ to understand the implications of handing over Crimea after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in that regard…
Just a point of historical accuracy here, Yeltsin had nothing to do with the handing over of Crimea to Ukraine. That was done years before by Krushchev, himself a Ukrainian, and was therefore the basis of the Russian claim post USSR.
Certainly the Russians took advantage of the Ukrainian internal turmoil to make the claim fact. Whether the referendum there to rejoin Russia was fair or not is a seperate question. Also whether or not Crimea was always Russian is another question, it was not.
Personally I believe that the will of the majority is supreme so if the referendum there was just, then to me that is all that matters.
For the same reason I believe that the only justifiable wars Britain has fought in the last several hundred years were against the Romans and the Normans, unwanted invaders, and in the Falklands. If Spain threatened to retake Gibraltar by force, the same principle would apply. If the Germans had actually threatened British territory in 1914 and 1939, then again, but no-one will ever know if they would have done if we had not declared war on them first.
So how does all this relate to Brexit? A referendum was held on what we now know to have been a false premise. When the actual facts are known then that is the time to put the correct question to the people. If the result remains the same, Brexit, then I will be sad but will make the best of it. (or the least worst anyway, as it might force me to live in Britain again if the latest pension scares become fact).
It’s always been obvious that Ukraine’s only claim to the Crimea was all about the Soviet Union and no SU obviously Crimea then reverts back to the Russian territory that it was since Catherine the Great took it from the Ottoman’s.Which surely just confirms Yeltsin’s stupid drunken actions in signing up to the Budapest stitch up.Just as the deal to move Russian forces out of its old East Euro buffers didn’t also include a clause to stop NATO and the EU moving in.
There was no false premise.Brexit was voted for on the basis that we wanted to take our country back from EU Federal rule and the fact that we certainly do pay a massive amount in net contributions to the corrupt EU Federal zb pile which would be better spent at home rather than the government imposing cuts.While if you really want to go down the road of lies being used to sway a referendum vote then we can go back to 1975 in which the electorate thought it was voting for a single market not for the country to be a state of a Federal Europe governed by Brussels and which we have no democratic control over.In which case all our EU membership to date is obviously void and we now start from a position of being a non EU member state.
As for the suggestion that Germany wasn’t a threat to us and all of Europe in 1939 you really have now gone into the realms of remainer la la land.Probably it because it doesn’t fit your script of Federation in whatever form supposedly good Nationalism supposedly bad.
Although yes we should have stayed neutral in 1914 then there would never have been a 1939.Over to Franglais on that.IE the French kicked it all off then they allow Germany to run Europe anyway.
Franglais:
In the interests of clarity: fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor … eu-budget/
Not a shining example of fiscal propriety, to be sure.
Id agree that it has been a poor showing in the past, but is getting better today. Now its better than 98% accurate, not too bad for such a large organisation,maybe?
Not exactly a corrupt organisation either. 2% or more error isn`t the same as 2% or more theft.
And the entire EU expenditure, you`ll notice is less than the UK spends on the NHS. Not what many seem to believe.
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Your real name wouldn’t happen to be Phillip Hammond would it ? Bewick.
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Your real name wouldn’t happen to be Phillip Hammond would it ? Bewick.
No, mate. Not Phillip Hammond.
I`ve aready been outed by Buzzer, as Mr Peter Perfect.
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Why would we rather ‘pay more for imports’ than call on our domestic industry to fill the resulting supply vacuum obviously with its built in price advantage ?.So they tax our fewer exports.Which,bearing in mind our EU trade deficit,obviously leaves us miles ahead when the EU is taxed out of the UK market and when UK industry then picks up the resulting windfall at home.As for the status quo how can our ‘balance of payments’ possibly worsen in that situation v the current trade deficit which we have with the EU compounded by our net contributions bill.
On that note yes we are so bleedin rich we have to impose austerity at home at every turn.While we happily give away billions to the EU,for what.
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Your real name wouldn’t happen to be Phillip Hammond would it ? Bewick.
No, mate. Not Phillip Hammond.
I`ve aready been outed by Buzzer, as Mr Peter Perfect.
Hey Ho if the cap fits, and while we are at it we can buy every thing the EU has to offer from other sources around the world and before you say the EU can do the same the volumes are far greater from Europe than from the UK but it wont come to that anyway, we will trade and its no good putting silly taxes on each others goods as you only have to look at the USA & China as thats all ■■■ for tat now & no one gains in the end, Buzzer.
Carryfast:
The premise was always about the UK’s unarguable net contribution and the fact that we’d be better off spending that contribution at home.Rather than imposing ‘cuts’ at home so our cash can be spent in Europe.What does that have to do with comparing the entire NHS budget. So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
Yes, we as richer members are net contributors.
On leaving we won`t have to pay the EU. True.
We will however pay more for imports, have our exports taxed, and delayed, so making them more expensive and less desirable to our customers. Our balance of payments will probably then worsen. So any extra cash will soon be lost, and it could well be a spiral of decline for foreign and domestic investment in the UK.
Can I or anyone put our hands on our hearts and promise that staying is unarguably the best course for us? No.
But I reckon the chances are that staying in is best for the UK.
Clearly those who promise a bright and certain future outside are the ones “making it up” !
Your real name wouldn’t happen to be Phillip Hammond would it ? Bewick.
No, mate. Not Phillip Hammond.
I`ve aready been outed by Buzzer, as Mr Peter Perfect.
Hey Ho if the cap fits, and while we are at it we can buy every thing the EU has to offer from other sources around the world and before you say the EU can do the same the volumes are far greater from Europe than from the UK but it wont come to that anyway, we will trade and its no good putting silly taxes on each others goods as you only have to look at the USA & China as thats all ■■■ for tat now & no one gains in the end, Buzzer.
You’re right again Buzzer.
Trade wars and taxes are bad for everyone. We all loose.
So here we are in a large free trade zone, that has low tax agreements with other areas…
Not a perfect one. True. But…
Brexit is not all just about trade although important, most people I know who voted out did so on the basis that we would be in charge of immigration and we would have the right to make our own laws instead of being told what we can do by the EU control system and also the vast sums we as a country were paying out for the privilege of being told what we had to do to stay in line, IMHO don’t think many in Blighty realise just how many political personal we actually have on that big gravy train in Brussels either.
This I firmly believe led to the out vote winning the day with not a lot of consideration for ought else, as we draw closer to D day as it were what ever will happen no one really knows the answers too, I wonder if we will still be discussing this after the event with every on saying I told you so, Buzzer.
Franglais:
So here we are in a large free trade zone, that has low tax agreements with other areas…
Not a perfect one. True. But…
You mean a ‘free trade zone’ in which Denmark applies a 100% tax on new car sales.So are you saying that someone from Denmark could by a new BMW in Luxembourg or a Jag here subject to the respective local tax rates,for export and registration in Denmark.If not how does that fit the description of a free trade area ?.While even the USA has differing state taxes for the same products.Obviously conveniently no problems with bs border controls in either case though.Obviously because sorting the relevant tax is the responsibility of the buyer and seller at the point of sale in the state of registration.On that note feel free to explain exactly what border controls apply to new German cars crossing into Denmark for export.
As for China US trade.Trump was actually elected on the basis of bringing jobs back to the US by stopping cheap Chinese imports.So more employment in the US and more resulting economic growth and increased tax revenues all at the expense of China what’s not to like.
Buzzer:
we draw closer to D day as it were what ever will happen no one really knows the answers too, I wonder if we will still be discussing this after the event with every on saying I told you so, Buzzer.
Realistically unless we can get UKIP into at least an influential position of power as held by the DUP the remainers will win out and we’ll just see more cross Party remainer stalling tactics and sabotage and EU collusion.It’s my bet that the Cons next move will be a set in stone extension of article 50.Followed by an inevitable sell out in the form of remain in all but name.Assuming that project fear doesn’t finally work and the country then just says forget the whole thing.
That reads exactly like a prepared statement from the CBI.
You know the ones who have never stopped whingeing about everything which might in any way affect their profits, or perhaps more accurately which might make them get off their arses and sort their own houses out. That instead of expecting the state or everyone else to pay for training and a host of other things they reckon aren’t their responsiblity. All they want to do is cherry pick off next door’s tree all the time. As for just in time and the so called perils of Brexit, if they haven’t got enough stock of materials to keep going then they only have themselves and their accountancy department to blame. Of course if the weather turns foul in the channel or at the airports then that will be the fault of Brexit too.
There is just a glimmer of hope that UK govt has at last grown a backbone with the news that EU is being told to do one and we’ll build our own GPS satellite to rival Galileo.
CBI, Rail Delivery Group, British Retail Consortium, National Farmers Union - all the same… leeches looking for someone else to pick up the bill.
That reads exactly like a prepared statement from the CBI.
You know the ones who have never stopped whingeing about everything which might in any way affect their profits, or perhaps more accurately which might make them get off their arses and sort their own houses out. That instead of expecting the state or everyone else to pay for training and a host of other things they reckon aren’t their responsiblity. All they want to do is cherry pick off next door’s tree all the time. As for just in time and the so called perils of Brexit, if they haven’t got enough stock of materials to keep going then they only have themselves and their accountancy department to blame. Of course if the weather turns foul in the channel or at the airports then that will be the fault of Brexit too.
There is just a glimmer of hope that UK govt has at last grown a backbone with the news that EU is being told to do one and we’ll build our own GPS satellite to rival Galileo.
CBI, Rail Delivery Group, British Retail Consortium, National Farmers Union - all the same… leeches looking for someone else to pick up the bill.
Sounds more like something an office worker,who’s job is dependent on co ordinating imported engineering components,would say.Rather than something that a Brit shop floor worker would say who wants Brit jobs for Brit workers actually making Brit products from foundry to finished product.As opposed to assembling foreign made components providing 3 better paid foreign jobs for every Brit one.
That reads exactly like a prepared statement from the CBI.
You know the ones who have never stopped whingeing about everything which might in any way affect their profits, or perhaps more accurately which might make them get off their arses and sort their own houses out. That instead of expecting the state or everyone else to pay for training and a host of other things they reckon aren’t their responsiblity. All they want to do is cherry pick off next door’s tree all the time. As for just in time and the so called perils of Brexit, if they haven’t got enough stock of materials to keep going then they only have themselves and their accountancy department to blame. Of course if the weather turns foul in the channel or at the airports then that will be the fault of Brexit too.
There is just a glimmer of hope that UK govt has at last grown a backbone with the news that EU is being told to do one and we’ll build our own GPS satellite to rival Galileo.
CBI, Rail Delivery Group, British Retail Consortium, National Farmers Union - all the same… leeches looking for someone else to pick up the bill.
We may not like Just In Time, but that’s the way the world works today…
And our own Galileo?
Reckon we’ll find Ten Billion down the back of the Government’s sofa?
cav551 mentioned the National Farmers Union now that’s a subject with in the EU I just cannot get my head round, Millions paid out in subsidies to farmers mostly or mega rich landowners, this cannot be right or ethical, some will say farmers could not survive without these huge payouts. In and around the New Forest I know lots of farming folk who now have brand new John Deere tractors and equipment something years ago you just would not see all funded by EU money, years gone by they would have made do with a Massey or Fordson major tractor but not now, I know things have moved on but why farming.
If John Smith say who runs a heating and plumbing business has a hard time no one is giving him handouts to keep going, if he cant cut the mustard he just goes to the wall. This should be the same in farming, then there are those who say ah but food will cost more well so be it, if the right price was paid in the first place they would not need subsidies.
I’ll sit back with me hard hat on and await the flack, Buzzer.
Hi Buzzer,
Arround me there are farmers who rent out fields to farmers who rent them out to someone else who “you got it” rent them out etc etc, Bl**dy fields are never used but all getting thier sumsidies.
Pall up the road from me gets money for a field he has never seen, how in gods name has this never been put right is beyond me and the talk is now, will they still get there money after Brexit.
Do you think the price paid to farmers by the big 5 has anything to do with it.
Good to get a little “earth” in to this thread eh !! Harvey I to got my hard hat on.
Carryfast:
Also bearing in mind that Yeltsin was probably too ■■■■■■ to understand the implications of handing over Crimea after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in that regard…
Just a point of historical accuracy here, Yeltsin had nothing to do with the handing over of Crimea to Ukraine. That was done years before by Krushchev, himself a Ukrainian, and was therefore the basis of the Russian claim post USSR.
Certainly the Russians took advantage of the Ukrainian internal turmoil to make the claim fact. Whether the referendum there to rejoin Russia was fair or not is a seperate question. Also whether or not Crimea was always Russian is another question, it was not.
Personally I believe that the will of the majority is supreme so if the referendum there was just, then to me that is all that matters.
For the same reason I believe that the only justifiable wars Britain has fought in the last several hundred years were against the Romans and the Normans, unwanted invaders, and in the Falklands. If Spain threatened to retake Gibraltar by force, the same principle would apply. If the Germans had actually threatened British territory in 1914 and 1939, then again, but no-one will ever know if they would have done if we had not declared war on them first.
So how does all this relate to Brexit? A referendum was held on what we now know to have been a false premise. When the actual facts are known then that is the time to put the correct question to the people. If the result remains the same, Brexit, then I will be sad but will make the best of it. (or the least worst anyway, as it might force me to live in Britain again if the latest pension scares become fact).
Spar do,
Don’t worry about your pension not being accessible from your UK bank account,my son lives in the UK,and you send your pension monies into that account,I will of course pass it on to your French bank account,lol,lol!
It’s scare mongering again,the U.K. doesn’t want us aged pensioners back,the NHS is already overloaded with oldies,they don’t want any more!!!
HRS:
Hi Buzzer,
Arround me there are farmers who rent out fields to farmers who rent them out to someone else who “you got it” rent them out etc etc, Bl**dy fields are never used but all getting thier sumsidies.
Pall up the road from me gets money for a field he has never seen, how in gods name has this never been put right is beyond me and the talk is now, will they still get there money after Brexit.
Do you think the price paid to farmers by the big 5 has anything to do with it.
Good to get a little “earth” in to this thread eh !! Harvey I to got my hard hat on.
No need for any hard hats, you two, just a stiff dose of some uncomplicated reasoning.
And please don’t worry about your farming friends, they have already been assured that you will keep on paying them when the EU stops doing so. Mind you, it was a politician who told them, and we know what lies so many of them told us all back in 2018.
So, if it was lies, and they don’t get paid, what are you going to eat in little lockdown fortress Britain? Hmmm.
So we have Labour Party remainers whingeing about NHS cuts in real terms while at the same time supporting the EU net contribution.Like your pro EU bollox they couldn’t make it up.
