Dave the Renegade:
Archie Paice:
That’s correct, Boris is nobody’s fool. He is a very Clever and Astute man. I believe he has the qualities needed to lead this Great Country of ours, Out of Europe and onward to better things.Don’t see many bigwigs turn up in Downing St on a bike, but Boris did. Can’t imagine Cameron on a bike. I’m not a Tory myself, but at least Boris has personality.
Blimey if voting out means Boris for PM I might vote in. 
bullitt:
So Carryfast …after all that, whatever all that is about anyway, you still haven’t answered Buzzers question. Are you IN or OUT, Stay or LEAVE??EDIT…you just beat me!!
To be fair I’ve made more references elsewhere,to Peter Shore being the best PM we never had, than I have posts here. 
Carryfast:
bullitt:
So Carryfast …after all that, whatever all that is about anyway, you still haven’t answered Buzzers question. Are you IN or OUT, Stay or LEAVE??EDIT…you just beat me!!
To be fair I’ve made more references elsewhere,to Peter Shore being the best PM we never had, than I have posts here.
Denis Healey was a far better heavyweight politician than Peter Shore, and is mentioned by many as ‘’ the best PM we never had’'.
As I don,t live in the UK anymore , I,m not up to speed with all the details so can someone answer 2 questions. 1. Would I be allowed to vote or is it UK resident only ( not that I want to ). 2. How much money does the UK pay into the EU. If they leave then could that monies be put say into the health service,it must be billions Of pounds ,look forward to your answers
Dave the Renegade:
Carryfast:
To be fair I’ve made more references elsewhere,to Peter Shore being the best PM we never had, than I have posts here.Denis Healey was a far better heavyweight politician than Peter Shore, and is mentioned by many as ‘’ the best PM we never had’'.
Oh wait.You mean that supporter of Wilson’s EU in campaign and follower of Thatcherite economics.Who thought the best way to make the economy work was by giving British jobs to German workers and cutting wages in real terms while allowing prices to go through the roof.Yes that’ll work.
Carryfast:
eddie snax:
I’m not suggesting that the US see’s a Federal EU as a threat, but they would see a European military command as a threat to their dominance of the present Military structure of NATO. I believe that a European military command is incompatible with NATO, and would lead to the break up of NATO.Why would the US be wary of what is the present set up of NATO, as in a single military command structure, sub ordinate to its sovereign nation state members, but mainly the US. Surely this makes NATO a non Federal military command.
And still come back to the fact, that only Britain and France out of all EU/ NATO members meet the funding commitment of NATO, so why would the EU members all of a sudden want to start properly funding their own defence, when they don’t at present.
As I said the US sees any form of successful secessionist ideology as a threat to its own Federalist principles.While by the same logic it would obviously prefer to have a Federal European NATO ally than a Confederal one in which the seperate nation states retain supreme sovereignty over their respective governmental and therefore respective military commands.IE as I said the US regards the idea of Confederal ( anti Federalist ) government toxic.Which probably explains why it gave Germany back to the Germans after Germany having murdered 16 million people but it obviously didn’t want to give back the Confederacy to the CSA having supposedly taken it out over the bs excuse of ‘slavery’.
Why on earth would the US want 1 single European military command, representing 5-6 hundred million people and the economic power that brings, when it can have as at present (NATO), individual Nation states bought together within the single structure of NATO, thus allowing the US to pick off/bribe/cajole the said states, and bend them to its (foreign policy) will, with the help off the ever willing British political class.
eddie snax:
Why on earth would the US want 1 single European military command, representing 5-6 hundred million people and the economic power that brings, when it can have as at present (NATO),
For the same reason that it certainly doesn’t want or support an EU constitution based on a Confederation of seperate European Sovereign States.Bearing in mind the effects that such a statement would have on political views in places like Texas.
On that note a Federal European military command as part of NATO would be totally consistent with its support for a Federal Europe.
No Boatchaser you would have to be a resident and the quick answer is £55 million per day just to be a member.
The answer is clear. OUT!
There seems to be some confusion about Boris, he’s an out and out Europhile and if he’s joined the out campaign it won’t be to lead us out on a white charger, but to assist getting the Electoral Commission official OUT ticket for him and his Westminster bubble fake tory fake eurosceptics, then should the vote be an out vote that lot have already waxed lyrical about a second vote after another (sham) renegotiation, which the media cronies will big up and we’ll be off down the road of the Irish, IN, which will suit Boris just fine especially if his Oliver Twist style begging bowl gets more than the Cameroon could manage, he’d then be in with a good chance of misleading the Tory Social Democratc Party onwards and deeper into the EU.
Big business and mainstream political parties want in, the Tories you can understand cos they have to do the bidding of those who own them, big business and big banks, the Tories know not to bite the hand that feeds them.
Labour is an odd one, supported by unions yet its in the interests of the vast majority of British working class people to be OUT, so why are the unions so pro the EU, whats in it for them…if they came out as OUT, with the backing of the real working class behind them they could really see Labour as the party with the interests of British working people again, apparently Corbyn was anti EU till he got the top job, disappointing that, i thought the bloke had some principles, vanished like all politicians promises at the first hurdle.
Limp Dumps are history and hardly worth mentioning any more, good riddance.
Juddian:
There seems to be some confusion about Boris, he’s an out and out Europhile and if he’s joined the out campaign it won’t be to lead us out on a white charger, but to assist getting the Electoral Commission official OUT ticket for him and his Westminster bubble fake tory fake eurosceptics, then should the vote be an out vote that lot have already waxed lyrical about a second vote after another (sham) renegotiation, which the media cronies will big up and we’ll be off down the road of the Irish, IN, which will suit Boris just fine especially if his Oliver Twist style begging bowl gets more than the Cameroon could manage, he’d then be in with a good chance of misleading the Tory Social Democratc Party onwards and deeper into the EU.Big business and mainstream political parties want in, the Tories you can understand cos they have to do the bidding of those who own them, big business and big banks, the Tories know not to bite the hand that feeds them.
Labour is an odd one, supported by unions yet its in the interests of the vast majority of British working class people to be OUT, so why are the unions so pro the EU, whats in it for them…if they came out as OUT, with the backing of the real working class behind them they could really see Labour as the party with the interests of British working people again, apparently Corbyn was anti EU till he got the top job, disappointing that, i thought the bloke had some principles, vanished like all politicians promises at the first hurdle.
Limp Dumps are history and hardly worth mentioning any more, good riddance.
^ This.
As for the thinking among the Unions they are obviously going by the logic that to be a trade Unionist means you have to be a Socialist and they see the EU as being a Socialist institution.
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Carryfast:
To be fair I’ve made more references elsewhere,to Peter Shore being the best PM we never had, than I have posts here.Denis Healey was a far better heavyweight politician than Peter Shore, and is mentioned by many as ‘’ the best PM we never had’'.
Oh wait.You mean that supporter of Wilson’s EU in campaign and follower of Thatcherite economics.Who thought the best way to make the economy work was by giving British jobs to German workers and cutting wages in real terms while allowing prices to go through the roof.Yes that’ll work.
Shore was a nearly man.Even his own constituency tried to deselect him.
Boatchaser:
As I don,t live in the UK anymore , I,m not up to speed with all the details so can someone answer 2 questions. 1. Would I be allowed to vote or is it UK resident only ( not that I want to ). 2. How much money does the UK pay into the EU. If they leave then could that monies be put say into the health service,it must be billions Of pounds ,look forward to your answers
As I said before it cost the UK £55 million a day that’s £1 for every man woman and child so if you are married with two kids you pay £1640 every year for some one in Brussels to tell us what we can and cannot do, great is it not. if you don’t live here don’t think you will be able to vote, but all the new import’s who have been granted UK residency will be able to vote which is criminal, Buzzer.
I know Labour are for staying in but I haven’t seen Mr Corbyn giving intereviews on tele. or was asleep asleep at the time
Dave the Renegade:
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Denis Healey was a far better heavyweight politician than Peter Shore, and is mentioned by many as ‘’ the best PM we never had’'.Oh wait.You mean that supporter of Wilson’s EU in campaign and follower of Thatcherite economics.Who thought the best way to make the economy work was by giving British jobs to German workers and cutting wages in real terms while allowing prices to go through the roof.Yes that’ll work.
Shore was a nearly man.Even his own constituency tried to deselect him.
Absolutely no surprise that there was no place for a Nationalist in the Labour ranks.So as I said we ended up with the Labour Europhile zbwits in the form of Callaghan and his Chancellor Healey then Blair and Brown instead.The rest is history.
rastone:
I know Labour are for staying in but I haven’t seen Mr Corbyn giving intereviews on tele. or was asleep asleep at the time
Labour working class principles always end up in the dilemma of having to choose between Nationalist v Socialist.Unlike Shore and Hoey,but like most of the misguided trade union movement that pulls his strings,he’s obviously chosen the latter.
OUT OUT OUT !
People are worried about the 2,000,000 European immigrants that are here, most of them working hard. Polish being the majority. Do we Brits not owe the Polish a thank you for when they last emigrated to the UK? When they volunteered to fly our planes in WW2 when there were precious few teenagers of our own that could take to the skies in our defence to keep the Germans off our soil? As someone mentioned, the money from child benefit that flows abroad is miniscule.
So then, we’re out…where you going to accommodate the 2,000,000 +++ ExPats whom overnight would not have the right to reside in any European country. They could all come back. Most are retired, so at a stroke could put a strain on the NHS, the DSS, Local Councils for housing/day hotel rooms just as EU immigrants can. Not all exPats own chateaus or 6 bedroom villas on the costa. Their properties would then become worthless as any EU buyer would screw them into the ground as they would have to sell quick and get out. Who would be the burden on the state then? Oh and don’t forget, they all paid their taxes, usually for 44 years to qualify for their pensions, not the 30 years or so required now. Therefore every exPat is entitled to reside and all the benefits they have contributed to by right. Benefits the cannot receive outside of the UK! Willi Hague knicked the last one, winter fuel allowance last year.
Ummm…you show your passport when you enter and leave the Schengen area alongwith Advanced Passenger Information when you travel to certain EU countries. Good job too.
Our border are secure as secure as they can be without becoming a prison. For us and them. If the French ask us to remove Border Force from French territory (including the Eurostar terminal in Paris not to mention Brussels (B) etc) our defences against unwanted aliens would now be on OUR shores. “Send them back” you cry. That’s OK if the country you are sending them will accept them. No? Then Human Rights will raise it’s courtroom head and cost us MILLIONS per case. The UK Govt cant track all of them that are here now, what would happen when they jump the fences in Kent or Sussex or Dorset? Remember the case of the Asylum Seekers that were ejected as bogus and booted out? Then they got back in again but nobody knew it! Why? Because it was too labour intensive to register every rejected Asylum Seeker. If you or I pinch a Mars bar from Tescos and they prosecute, fingerprints and a sentence FOREVER. All for a 75p bar of chocolate. The millions spent ejecting these failed Asylum Seekers doesn’t warrant a fingerprint and a line on a data base somewhere at Border Force?Thats OUR failure not theirs. Better off they are in France, risking life and limb on trucks trains and 750V live cables.
We can get back our French owned Utilities? How many people run the Dartford and Severn crossings? 100 at most. Brits carry out the maintenence no matter who owns it. Water Companies? None to many employees there of foreign origin. Pull out foreign car manufacture, thousands of jobs lost not only in the factories but the surrounding economies (don’t wait for Phoenix Leyland to come back). Look what happened around the steel and coal producers neighbourhoods, desolation and more people on the dole, sorry JSA!
I cannot understand how all you ex European drivers, prior to the EU could consider reverting to the T.Forms, carnets, insurances, guarantees, lost time in customs everywhere. Every time you crossed a road border, paperwork, vehicle inspections, fuel surcharge, fines, “cafe messieur” and all that it used to entail? What makes you think it won’t have to happen again? Norway and Swiss are part of EEAA or summat like that so they are exempt from this. If you want OUT OUT then it will be the old days. Don’t look back with rose tinted specs Mary Hopkin (Buzzer) it will just cost you. Trip money to nip down to Milan…no chance, you pay me if I sit in Customs all day and your customer ain’t paying the import duty, because you are keeping me away from my home and my family.
I’m inclined to align myself with Franglais. Many people in the UK have never been outside of our borders so don’t realise what the EU really means. They will vote in ignorance guided by media hype.
For those that don’t know: I work and pay my taxes in the UK but live in the sun but I get sweet F.A. from any Govt’ Agency for doing so even if I was entitled to some ■■■ bit or other if I lived in the UK.
On my HMRC form it asked why I was leaving…I put " I am fed up with working hard 6 days a week to feed the “I don’t wanna work” brigade. Not foreigners, the Blairite Socialists that thought it was their god given right to occasionally frequent the dole office because they used to work now and again.
People, do not use the knee jerk vote, think carefully and look through the hype. Do all that you can to encourage others to do the same and how it may affect their lives. No one wins when the turnout is only 35% of population and they decide the In or Out. Where were the other 65%?
Gazzer your epic reply was longer than our vicars sermon on Sunday. 2 million EU immigrants eh ! so we don’t count the Syrians, Afgans and the rest who don’t come from the EU
2 million ex pats, well they can move to another country out side the EU any way 2 mil for 2 mil nullifies that, stop all benefits £55 mil a day extra for the NHS and other costs
On the subject of bringing back T forms etc it wont benefit any one but as only 13% of export/import is done by British companies and decreasing all the time it’s not going to be such a blow to us, and if it becomes unprofitable you just stop.
Now on too not knowing what the EU is about, one can see your point about media hype but this has always been the case with who ever runs this country, they all bloody lie it seems inherent with politicians.
At the end of the day do you really think when the votes are counted of how ever many people do bother to turn out and mark the card that we will be given the true account of the final tally, I for one don’t believe this to be so and this will be a folly, total charade as the people in charge of these Islands are corrupt just like all the other European delegates, they are only out to feather there own nest’s nothing more, nothing less.
PS. This is just an online discussion so we should really control our feelings even if they are passionate, its easy to get carried away on an emotive subject.
EU immigrants cannot include Syrians, Afghans, Iraquis, Libyans, Nigerians and very nice people from Mali. They cannot work, have no right to reside UNLESS the claim Political Asylum. Dont claim, eject them.
There is a law in the EU that prohibits “Economic Migration”. You cannot go to a country within the EU with out a means to support yourself independently or work. The Spanish are pretty cute with this in that the deny you benefits if you haven’t contributed to their economy. Legal or not they certainly make it difficult. Trouble is there is a thriving black economy for workers in the vast countryside just like there is in the UK. Have you ever heard of Border Force chucking anyone out because they were an economic EU migrant? No I didn’t think so. From a transport perspective, if you drive a Spanish registered truck and you are randomly stopped, not only will you get asked for your ID and tacho card, the Guardia will ask you for your Social Security card, purely because you are a foreigner, to ensure you are legit. Can’t do that in the UK without compulsory ID.
Maybe I don’t want to live in the Bahamas, or Gibraltar come to that. I may have to return to the UK, start working full time, my Mrs. working full time just to keep our head above the water Contributing even more into the HMRC coffers. Running like hamsters in the wheel of life or following my fellow members in my particular flock of sheep to the better patch of greenery. The £55m (£1 for virtually everyone per day) is paid for by the 37m people that work, me included. Yes chuck more at the NHS, the more you chuck at it the more the Drugs barons ramp up the drugs price cartel to rip it off. Fat cats galore. You want waste? There’s a EU national here who works for a UK services company providing food for the military. She turned in for her 12 hour shift along with her 7 colleagues to serve 1 (ONE) lunch and 3 (THREE) suppers in that 12 hours. Not her fault there weren’t any customers but we are paying through the nose, losing the EU won’t help that. NHS no different. They don’t live in our world, running your own business, juggling the family payments. Just like a truck, it will swallow any money to want to throw at it, for no real benefit.
Illegals through the tunnel? And the Condom at the other end says “Non messieur, your problem now”. We are discussing EU here not world migration and Asylum Seekers. I agree with many, you see few women and kids on the TV with the Middle Eastern migrants, fit young men, fleeing as they are, into uncertainty. Listen to them, 90% want to go back to their country when the war is over.
I went to Albania once. I chatted with an 11 year old lad who spoke good English. “I want to go to England to study law and then return to Albania to clean this place up”.
Not seen Corbyn but then I haven’t seen or heard of Farage either!
Most of the Asylum seekers appear to be well dressed and well nourished, also with I phones etc. I just find that very strange.