Franglais:
I dont like the EU system of unelected commissioners. If youre arguing against that Im totally with you. But I find it hard to accept your points about internal votes. We could as an independent country vote to ignore euro emissions laws on cars, but that wouldnt allow us to make any sales in the EU. Making two different types of vehicle for domestic and export seems unnecessary. (yeah, ok, lhd rhd, but will you accept the principal? )
And I repeat that going with the majority is what democracy is about. If the residents of the Isle of Wight have a democratic vote, to allow unregulated disposal of nuclear waste on their own land, or allow devil worship or wtf, have they not that right? Surely not. If they want to do that, they`ve got to convince Parliament, not just declare UDI for the IoW. What would your idea of a minimum state size be?
And so far we have opted out of Schengen and the EuroZone. Surely we can stay in, try to steer the EU on a sensible course, but keep opting out where needed?
I’m arguing about the situation whereby a majority federal vote of foreign MEP’s with no electoral mandate here within our national borders can tell me what I’m allowed to drive here.I don’t give a zb what they do in their own states where they have an electoral mandate.IE we’re not allowed to import American or Australian vehicles here because the EU says so because that would upset ze Germans.
As for the definition of ‘democracy’.As I said that should be based firstly on the idea of self determination and the nation state of which Europe’s national borders are already there.While planning regulations should be subject to further local democracy.In which case I’d guess there’s more chance of the French wanting to dump nuclear waste on the Isle of Wight with the support of pro EU northern Labour MP’s than the Isle of Wight’s local democratic provision being able to stop it.
As for how small a state is viable let’s just say that my Great uncle died for Irish independence and Ireland ain’t exactly as big as France.
I’m arguing about the situation whereby a majority federal vote of foreign MEP’s with no electoral mandate here within our national borders can tell me what I’m allowed to drive here.I don’t give a zb what they do in their own states where they have an electoral mandate.IE we’re not allowed to import American or Australian vehicles here because the EU says so because that would upset ze Germans.
As for the definition of ‘democracy’.As I said that should be based firstly on the idea of self determination and the nation state of which Europe’s national borders are already there.While planning regulations should be subject to further local democracy.In which case I’d guess there’s more chance of the French wanting to dump nuclear waste on the Isle of Wight with the support of pro EU northern Labour MP’s than the Isle of Wight’s local democratic provision being able to stop it.
As for how small a state is viable let’s just say that my Great uncle died for Irish independence and Ireland ain’t exactly as big as France.
What mandate has a majority of English M.P.s to decide what taxes should be paid in Scotland? but thats the existing UK system. What right does majority mainland M.P.s have to determine what happens on the IoW? What right has a city centre councillor to determine what happens in my back yard? You do put up a good case for more referenda (as per Swiss). But I cant see your rational for arguing that which happens in Eu is worse than that in the UK.
Allowing local residents the final say in planning would probably sound the death knell for all new housing, schools, hospitals ,roads etc etc…
There is a French outfit importing newish and a few older USA trucks which do appear on the roads pulling tankers and occasionally 12m trailers. They`re based at the airfield just south of Clermont Ferrand.
I’m a bit concerned about bloody Boris saying he’s reluctantly going to vote for out.
Whilst he looks a bugger he’s a clever bugger, a few more prominent Tory Lib Dems (for thats what they are) and the electoral commission will more than likely award the Westminster group the official OUT ticket…and that worries me because that mob have already been waffling about a second vote following another round with the begging bowl should the country horrifically vote the wrong way for out, and we’ve seen this in other EU votes such as Ireland, though at least they had to keep voting till they gave the right answer where the French non vote was simply ignored.
This EU project, which is basically the fourth reich, isn’t going to give up easily.
I’m for OUT by the way and i voted no last time too, following Heath’s surrender and insult to the millions of good men and women who gave their lives defending the freedom of this once fine country and the rest of free europe only for politicians like him and those who followed him spitting on their graves.
Out, the EU is a failed experiment that’s been teetering on the edge for a few years now, it seems to be one crisis after another. We are a great nation that can and will succeed without the interference of Brussels, and with the great man of the people Boris onside we have a very real chance of getting out of this pointless failure.
I’m arguing about the situation whereby a majority federal vote of foreign MEP’s with no electoral mandate here within our national borders can tell me what I’m allowed to drive here.I don’t give a zb what they do in their own states where they have an electoral mandate.IE we’re not allowed to import American or Australian vehicles here because the EU says so because that would upset ze Germans.
As for the definition of ‘democracy’.As I said that should be based firstly on the idea of self determination and the nation state of which Europe’s national borders are already there.While planning regulations should be subject to further local democracy.In which case I’d guess there’s more chance of the French wanting to dump nuclear waste on the Isle of Wight with the support of pro EU northern Labour MP’s than the Isle of Wight’s local democratic provision being able to stop it.
As for how small a state is viable let’s just say that my Great uncle died for Irish independence and Ireland ain’t exactly as big as France.
What mandate has a majority of English M.P.s to decide what taxes should be paid in Scotland? but thats the existing UK system. What right does majority mainland M.P.s have to determine what happens on the IoW? What right has a city centre councillor to determine what happens in my back yard? You do put up a good case for more referenda (as per Swiss). But I cant see your rational for arguing that which happens in Eu is worse than that in the UK.
Allowing local residents the final say in planning would probably sound the death knell for all new housing, schools, hospitals ,roads etc etc…
There is a French outfit importing newish and a few older USA trucks which do appear on the roads pulling tankers and occasionally 12m trailers. They`re based at the airfield just south of Clermont Ferrand.
Firstly being a nationalist I’m obviously in favour of Scottish independence.
As for planning rules the system we’ve got now isn’t exactly working where we’ve got the South East being subject to over development to the point of continuous rolling expansion of London based on a vicious cycle of those fleeing successive over development causing over demand further out.While other NIMBY parts of the country remain an under developed wilderness.With continuing calls from MP’s in those areas to put yet more into the South East to maintain that status quo.So yes I believe in ‘local’ democracy whether that means County and Borough control over local planning policy or Nation State government control of Nation State affairs within national borders.
Yes you might see some older US trucks on French roads but what you won’t find is free customer access to ‘new’ American or Australian ones.That’s in addition to the issues of us paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of adding to the German trade surplus and paying for Eastern Europe’s rebuilding programme.With many of the jobs we don’t lose to Europe being taken by cheap East Euro immigrant labour.
Juddian:
I’m a bit concerned about bloody Boris saying he’s reluctantly going to vote for out.
Whilst he looks a bugger he’s a clever bugger, a few more prominent Tory Lib Dems (for thats what they are) and the electoral commission will more than likely award the Westminster group the official OUT ticket…and that worries me because that mob have already been waffling about a second vote following another round with the begging bowl should the country horrifically vote the wrong way for out, and we’ve seen this in other EU votes such as Ireland, though at least they had to keep voting till they gave the right answer where the French non vote was simply ignored.
This EU project, which is basically the fourth reich, isn’t going to give up easily.
That’s why I think the best plan of action for the out campaign is to advise its voters to boycot the referendum on grounds of bias and/or rigging.Then sort it out the right way by GO forming a new Nationalist Party that stands on a ticket of taking us out without any bs referendum on the grounds that our membership is and has been an illegal act of treason that goes against the national constitution since 1973 to date.
eddie snax:
As for comparing our leaving, to that of the birth of the USA as an independent sate is just laughable.
Wrong analogy.Notwithstanding the issue of slavery which only extreme naivety would believe was the sticking point.It’s more a question of how many future lives and heartache would have been saved ‘if’ the US constitution had remained a Confederal arrangement in 1788,providing the seperate states with the supreme sovereign right of independent government over their own affairs.In a ‘union’ based on choice and consent in the form of the right of state legislative opt outs and substitution and secession.
Hello Lads … This seems to be a hot topic at the moment I,m out of touch having been away for a very long time so am not qualified to comment It seems to me that the whole arrangement is down by the head with regulations some good some not so good so i hope for all of you the the right path is taken …just a slight diversion too !! there is a massive world wide problem of refugees from Syria and the region most of what I see on Television are young healthy looking men … during the 2nd world war … I was in my pram I have,nt read ANYWHERE about a mass exodus of the population fleeing looking for asylum it seems as history says "we will fight them on the beaches " so our predecessors did,nt up and run… they rallied round !!! but these days thats gone by the board
I will now step down off the soap box and read more about lorries !!!
Carryfast you certainly seem to like this topic you have made 17 posts so far and its only been 3 days since posting, can you tell us all which way you are voting in or out as im’e not sure which way you will go as I feel you may have confused yourself Buzzer.
Carryfast:
[As for NATO.The eventual and inevitable setting up of an EU federal military command would obviously be compatible with US domestic and foreign policy and thereby also NATO.Make no mistake us being forced into an EU federal system that we don’t want is in large part the result of US federalist ideology.In which case us not having used the British navy to smash US Federalism and it’s contagious spread,by entering the US war of secession on the side of the Confederate States,could eventually come back to bite everyone who values the idea of the nation state and self determination which is what that war was ‘actually’ about.
Sorry but we will never see this the same, The US wont want an EU military command, for the very fact that they wish to be the leading nation on the planet, a rival federal state, to wit an EU state would be, is not and will never be in the self interest of the US. The 2003 Iraq served to highlight this to the states, as only one current(at that time) EU member (britian) took part in the original invasion, and the vast majority if not all EU nations of the time were totally hostile to it, If they allowed NATO to wither, they would lose the control they have at present, it aint happening.
How do you leap to the conclusion that the US sees a Federal Europe as a threat when it clearly and predictably sees it as an asset to justify its domestic position at home.With EU eastward expansion and its close ties with NATO being an obvious part of that agenda.
It’s a Confederal ( anti Federalist ) Europe in which Nation State Sovereignty is supreme with a non Federal military command is what America would really see as a threat to its domestic governmental system probably to the point of imposing sanctions to stop it.
I’m not suggesting that the US see’s a Federal EU as a threat, but they would see a European military command as a threat to their dominance of the present Military structure of NATO. I believe that a European military command is incompatible with NATO, and would lead to the break up of NATO.
Why would the US be wary of what is the present set up of NATO, as in a single military command structure, sub ordinate to its sovereign nation state members, but mainly the US. Surely this makes NATO a non Federal military command.
And still come back to the fact, that only Britain and France out of all EU/ NATO members meet the funding commitment of NATO, so why would the EU members all of a sudden want to start properly funding their own defence, when they don’t at present.
Boris has made his play for the top job. If the referendum vote is OUT then Cameron will resign (his position will be untenable) and they’ll elect Boris as party leader. He appears to be a fool, a figure of fun, but don’t underestimate Boris…he’s no fool.
grumpy old man:
Boris has made his play for the top job. If the referendum vote is OUT then Cameron will resign (his position will be untenable) and they’ll elect Boris as party leader. He appears to be a fool, a figure of fun, but don’t underestimate Boris…he’s no fool.
That’s correct, Boris is nobody’s fool. He is a very Clever and Astute man. I believe he has the qualities needed to lead this Great Country of ours, Out of Europe and onward to better things.
Very little about trucks in this thread, I notice! is the EU to blame if the British Truck Industry has totally collapsed since you entered the Union 43 years ago?
Froggy55:
Very little about trucks in this thread, I notice! is the EU to blame if the British Truck Industry has totally collapsed since you entered the Union 43 years ago?
Froggy55 a lot on this thread are past transport men and not all did International work and today there are far less companies doing the job we are still operating 15 trucks on International work when we can get it and we have been at it for over 40 years, not easy today as I have stated before as our competition has all the modern gear now enabled by the EU. They stick two Eastern European drivers in the cabs and go for it , they pay them less than we pay one man on top of that EU regulations we seem to follow immediately and to the letter like the driver CPC then the Germans reneg on the deal and nothing ius done or they delay it for five years and then reneg. No level playing field here, we are not even playing the same game. No one in the governments we have had has a finger on the pulse or if they have they don’t give a flying f_ck for us and as for David Cameron who I voted for by the way says he has agreements for the UK but has he told us exactly what has been achieved has he hell, get the facts out in the open so we all know what the f_ck is going on here Buzzer.
eddie snax:
I’m not suggesting that the US see’s a Federal EU as a threat, but they would see a European military command as a threat to their dominance of the present Military structure of NATO. I believe that a European military command is incompatible with NATO, and would lead to the break up of NATO.
Why would the US be wary of what is the present set up of NATO, as in a single military command structure, sub ordinate to its sovereign nation state members, but mainly the US. Surely this makes NATO a non Federal military command.
And still come back to the fact, that only Britain and France out of all EU/ NATO members meet the funding commitment of NATO, so why would the EU members all of a sudden want to start properly funding their own defence, when they don’t at present.
As I said the US sees any form of successful secessionist ideology as a threat to its own Federalist principles.While by the same logic it would obviously prefer to have a Federal European NATO ally than a Confederal one in which the seperate nation states retain supreme sovereignty over their respective governmental and therefore respective military commands.IE as I said the US regards the idea of Confederal ( anti Federalist ) government toxic.Which probably explains why it gave Germany back to the Germans after Germany having murdered 16 million people but it obviously didn’t want to give back the Confederacy to the CSA having supposedly taken it out over the bs excuse of ‘slavery’.
grumpy old man:
Boris has made his play for the top job. If the referendum vote is OUT then Cameron will resign (his position will be untenable) and they’ll elect Boris as party leader. He appears to be a fool, a figure of fun, but don’t underestimate Boris…he’s no fool.
That’s correct, Boris is nobody’s fool. He is a very Clever and Astute man. I believe he has the qualities needed to lead this Great Country of ours, Out of Europe and onward to better things.
Don’t see many bigwigs turn up in Downing St on a bike, but Boris did. Can’t imagine Cameron on a bike. I’m not a Tory myself, but at least Boris has personality.
I can’t see David Cameron resigning whatever the outcome, I would think he will see out his tenure and let the rest fight it out in the next General Election when he intends to step down anyway and Gawd help us then, Boris might be our only chance but when I look at Labour these days I can only shake my head in disappointment at a party that has lost its way, the MP’s in that party don’t even want the clown who’s in charge at the moment so what does the public make of it, confused and dismayed but what’s new! Franky.
Buzzer:
Carryfast you certainly seem to like this topic you have made 17 posts so far and its only been 3 days since posting, can you tell us all which way you are voting in or out as im’e not sure which way you will go as I feel you may have confused yourself Buzzer.
I think it’s clear that I hold Nationalist views which are obviously totally contradictory to Federalism and therefore the EU constitution.So it was never going to be an in vote for me.
eddie snax:
I’m not suggesting that the US see’s a Federal EU as a threat, but they would see a European military command as a threat to their dominance of the present Military structure of NATO. I believe that a European military command is incompatible with NATO, and would lead to the break up of NATO.
Why would the US be wary of what is the present set up of NATO, as in a single military command structure, sub ordinate to its sovereign nation state members, but mainly the US. Surely this makes NATO a non Federal military command.
And still come back to the fact, that only Britain and France out of all EU/ NATO members meet the funding commitment of NATO, so why would the EU members all of a sudden want to start properly funding their own defence, when they don’t at present.
As I said the US sees any form of successful secessionist ideology as a threat to its own Federalist principles.While by the same logic it would obviously prefer to have a Federal European NATO ally than a Confederal one in which the seperate nation states retain supreme sovereignty over their respective governmental and therefore respective military commands.IE as I said the US regards the idea of Confederal ( anti Federalist ) government toxic.Which probably explains why it gave Germany back to the Germans after Germany having murdered 16 million people but it obviously didn’t want to give back the Confederacy to the CSA having supposedly taken it out over the bs excuse of ‘slavery’.
So Carryfast …after all that, whatever all that is about anyway, you still haven’t answered Buzzers question. Are you IN or OUT, Stay or LEAVE??
EDIT…you just beat me!! So you are OUT as well then?
