It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means. To put it simply, we were given a choice - stay or leave, and we voted leave. The mechanics of how the process would be carried out was entrusted to those who gave us that choice, the ones who had the positions of authority and who were privy to the information needed to finish the job. As an analogy, Joe Public might instruct “specialists” or “experts” to do work on his car/central heating boiler/computer or whatever, and because it isn’t within his own capabilities he tells them the outcome he wants, and leaves the method up to them, trusting them to deliver what has been requested. Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU.
fodenway:
It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means. To put it simply, we were given a choice - stay or leave, and we voted leave. The mechanics of how the process would be carried out was entrusted to those who gave us that choice, the ones who had the positions of authority and who were privy to the information needed to finish the job. As an analogy, Joe Public might instruct “specialists” or “experts” to do work on his car/central heating boiler/computer or whatever, and because it isn’t within his own capabilities he tells them the outcome he wants, and leaves the method up to them, trusting them to deliver what has been requested. Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU.
The mechanics or how the process would be carried out was entrusted to utterly incompetent clowns.
Fixed it for you. You’re welcome.
[quote=“Spardo”}
We have, endlessly, and round and round we go, really Buzzer how many times has the same question to be answered?
And did you really think that we would leave the EU the day after the referendum, Really? Was it not explained that it would take time?
So, if not, it boils down to how many youngsters came of age between June 2016 and March 2019. I don’t know, but I’m willing to bet that it is pretty near the figure I quoted.
So, what are you advocating in your brave new world? No more elections of any kind? Some democracy.[/quote]
I don’t think it was. The Leavers thought we’d be out on the 24th of June 2016.Just like that.
No, seriously, they did.
Franglais:
Buzzer:
The whole point of your post spardo is that had we have come out of the EU when the vote was first taken then they would still have been too young to vote, you may as well say if Brexit gets elongated for another two years then 14 yo kids will be eligible, the problem being they are not old enough or wise enough to realise the consequences of there actions, my thoughts but obviously not yours, Buzzer.Age doesn`t automatically confer wisdom.
Strange how the remainers had no issues with an 18 age limit being imposed on the 1975 referendum vote.Oh wait it’s obviously all about rigging the system in a way which they think provides the ‘right’ result for them.
dexxy57:
[quote=“Spardo”}We have, endlessly, and round and round we go, really Buzzer how many times has the same question to be answered?
And did you really think that we would leave the EU the day after the referendum, Really? Was it not explained that it would take time?
So, if not, it boils down to how many youngsters came of age between June 2016 and March 2019. I don’t know, but I’m willing to bet that it is pretty near the figure I quoted.
So, what are you advocating in your brave new world? No more elections of any kind? Some democracy.
I don’t think it was. The Leavers thought we’d be out on the 24th of June 2016.Just like that.
No, seriously, they did.
[/quote]
So by your logic why did we have no problem in going from non member to member state between 1972-73 and why didn’t we get another referendum in 1978 ?.
fodenway:
It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means. To put it simply, we were given a choice - stay or leave, and we voted leave. The mechanics of how the process would be carried out was entrusted to those who gave us that choice, the ones who had the positions of authority and who were privy to the information needed to finish the job. As an analogy, Joe Public might instruct “specialists” or “experts” to do work on his car/central heating boiler/computer or whatever, and because it isn’t within his own capabilities he tells them the outcome he wants, and leaves the method up to them, trusting them to deliver what has been requested. Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU.
“It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Yes.
“Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU”.
Which is YOUR interpretation of it. But what do YOU mean by “no longer tied to the EU”?
Stop all trade with it? Stop all flights and cross channel ferries?
That is a bit extreme maybe? Even CarryFast wants to be able to drive his car over there, and ignore their traffic laws I think!
So where would you draw the line? Stop braking computer chips being imported to build cars in Sunderland? Close Nissan? Stop imports of French wines, Spanish fruit and veg?
Unless we stop ALL trade we must talk to the EU and agree trading standards with them.
We currently don`t accept Genetically Modified foods here. If the EU started using GM would we want to accept them or not? If we started more GM use could we sell our foods there? So long as we do any trade with EU we need to talk to them.
So long as we trade with EU we ARE ■■■■■■■ with them.
Short of turning into an impoverished, isolated, sad little place, we need to trade. If we trade we are ■■■■■■■.
Now, do you want to come back and tell me where you would draw the line?
I guarantee there will be others who also want out, who would put that line elsewhere.
Your first line is correct, “a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Your last line, " Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU", is so open to different interpretation, as to be meaningless. (Unless you want the UK to become 1960`s Albania?)
Add.
Let`s look at your analogy of the computer expert?
“As an analogy, Joe Public might instruct “specialists” or “experts” to do work on his car/central heating boiler/computer or whatever, and because it isn’t within his own capabilities he tells them the outcome he wants, and leaves the method up to them, trusting them to deliver what has been requested”
In the referendum we were asked " EU? in or out?"
We said “out”. We are not happy with it.
So, we have phoned our computer expert and said “I am fed up with my computer. I want a change. Please sort it out”
Well…is he going to repair it? Supply a new one? Lap-top or tower? Expensive or cheap? Upgradable or fixed? Extended guarantee?
Here we are, weve said we dont like the EU.
But we didnt specify what we wanted to replace it with. Now we can see those glossy ads for not yet built computers were just the same old bullshine. We were told of how easy Brexit would be. We now know it isnt.
Time now, to decide on whether we want to swop our existing less than perfect computer, that we can for a new one, that certainly doesnt look anything like the adverts we saw in 2016. In 2016 we said a change looked good based on publicity and lies about a non-existent project. Well, we can now see the "artists impression" of Brexit aint anything like the real thing.
We havent parted with our old computer yet, maybe we should keep it rather than get this rather ephemeral thing that doesnt yet exist.
To reply to Franglais’ question -
“It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Yes.
“Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU”.
Which is YOUR interpretation of it. But what do YOU mean by “no longer tied to the EU”? (quote),
I meant that the UK should not be bound by EU rules, regulations, directives and laws, but rather set our own, as we did before our entry into what was then said to be simply a mutually beneficial trading arrangement, the Common Market. But that changed out of all recognition, and is still changing. Of course we can continue to deal with European countries, and others around the world, but in a spirit of co-operation rather than obligation. Many standards can sensibly remain, others could be changed to suit particular markets or circumstances. As the old saying goes, “where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
fodenway:
To reply to Franglais’ question -
“It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Yes.
“Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU”.
Which is YOUR interpretation of it. But what do YOU mean by “no longer tied to the EU”? (quote),I meant that the UK should not be bound by EU rules, regulations, directives and laws, but rather set our own, as we did before our entry into what was then said to be simply a mutually beneficial trading arrangement, the Common Market. But that changed out of all recognition, and is still changing. Of course we can continue to deal with European countries, and others around the world, but in a spirit of co-operation rather than obligation. Many standards can sensibly remain, others could be changed to suit particular markets or circumstances. As the old saying goes, “where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
But as ever “the devil is in the detail”.
If we want to sell goods into the EU we MUST obey their standards.
After all we wont accept any goods if they dont conform to our standards will we?
What is “sensible”?
Look at food: the US accepts GM, high stock levels (over-crowding) and high usage of hormones and antibiotics in their products.
If and when they sign a deal with us they will say these are all “sensible” things. We may well not agree.
Going back to standards will a car maker really want to develop two different engines with differing pollution settings for the EU and UK?
Where we are now, we have a say in setting standards and norms, when we leave we won`t. Our manufacturers will still need to meet EU standards to export, but will no longer have influence on those rules.
Could it be done? "Where there is a will, theres a way". Yes, it could. At great expense and inconvenience that could see our industry and farming hit very hard. Of course we could chop off one of our hands if we grit our teeth and try, but it really aint a good idea.
fodenway:
I meant that the UK should not be bound by EU rules, regulations, directives and laws, but rather set our own, as we did before our entry into what was then said to be simply a mutually beneficial trading arrangement, the Common Market. But that changed out of all recognition, and is still changing. Of course we can continue to deal with European countries, and others around the world, but in a spirit of co-operation rather than obligation. Many standards can sensibly remain, others could be changed to suit particular markets or circumstances. As the old saying goes, “where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
That sounds very well and reasonable Fodenway, but the problem with it is the cause of all the current ructions and prevarications over the last 3 years, namely, you can’t trade with the EU on a benificial basis without accepting many of its regulations and directives.
For instance, the EU does not accept GE products, as has been mentioned, but if the UK wants to trade around the world, and in particular with the USA, (though I think the Irish question may scupper that) then it will have to modify that stance, which would bar it from that section of EU markets. Just one instance, I’m sure there are many more, and trying to please everybody will take years, if ever.
On the other hand, if we stay in, we have a seat at the table which makes/modifies/even cancels, some of those regulations. From outside, if we want to trade, we have no say, or at least no clout, in changing the rules under which we do so.
As I have said before, living where I do, I have accepted the fact that the UK will leave and that I will have to put up with a drop in income, at least temporarliy, and that I will be little affected otherwise. But I am still British, born and bred, and will remain so and so care about what is happening to my country. And the way I see it, it is sad.
Edit, I have seen Franglais’ latest, and see no reason to edit my own. 
Spardo:
ramone:
dexxy57:
ramone:
Oh thanks for clearing that up , i dont really care who she’s leader of to be fair because she makes that many contradictions i cant keep up . Good luck with the independance vote i hope you get it then i look forward to the EU welcoming you with open arms , insisting on you using the euro , then setting up your own NHS paying for prescriptions just like us , university fees too , a border hopefully .I too think Ma Kranly is doing a fine job , but quite a few of your fellow countrymen dont agreeShe’s leader of the third largest party in Westminster. Got your finger on the pulse as usual I see.
Scotland had a vote for independance which was voted against , it was a minority who wanted to leave , she wa ts another vote . Britain had a vote to leave the EU , a majority voted to leave Ma Kranky wants another vote because the majority of Scotland want to remain .So when the majority of scotland want to stay in Britain she wants another vote for the minority when the majority of scotland want to stay in the EU she wants another vote does she just want to vote until she wins … beer time
Democracy means having more than one vote, otherwise there would not be repeated general elections. There are around 2 million more people eligible to vote now who were too young in 2016, the very people this important matter effects most. They deserve their democracy too.
So in your words a vote is out of date as soon as it is over because others have reached a voting age the day after or a week after , really ?
Spardo:
ramone:
dexxy57:
ramone:
Oh thanks for clearing that up , i dont really care who she’s leader of to be fair because she makes that many contradictions i cant keep up . Good luck with the independance vote i hope you get it then i look forward to the EU welcoming you with open arms , insisting on you using the euro , then setting up your own NHS paying for prescriptions just like us , university fees too , a border hopefully .I too think Ma Kranly is doing a fine job , but quite a few of your fellow countrymen dont agreeShe’s leader of the third largest party in Westminster. Got your finger on the pulse as usual I see.
Scotland had a vote for independance which was voted against , it was a minority who wanted to leave , she wa ts another vote . Britain had a vote to leave the EU , a majority voted to leave Ma Kranky wants another vote because the majority of Scotland want to remain .So when the majority of scotland want to stay in Britain she wants another vote for the minority when the majority of scotland want to stay in the EU she wants another vote does she just want to vote until she wins … beer time
Democracy means having more than one vote, otherwise there would not be repeated general elections. There are around 2 million more people eligible to vote now who were too young in 2016, the very people this important matter effects most. They deserve their democracy too.
So in your words a vote is out of date as soon as it is over because others have reached a voting age the day after or a week after , really ?
dexxy57:
ramone:
Fact checking ■■? Ma Kranky was put in charge of the Scottish Democrats without a democratic vote from the members whereas Salmon left because ,well i’m not too sure about that but im sure you doSalmond resigned after losing the Indy Referendum. There was no vote for Nicola to replace him as leader because she was unopposed. There were no other candidates. She was Deputy Leader at the time, so simply moved up to being Leader. And a fine job she’s doing too.
Who are the Scottish Democrats? Never heard of them.
“And a fine job she’s doing too”
Hi dexxy57 can’t agree with that about the the leader of a party that is considered left of centre and slated by a left leaning publication here newstatesman.com/politics/s … as-exposed
I have been back “home” 20+ years now having spent the best part of 40 south of the border. Being old and a leaver (you’ll class me as a geriatric) I am able to watch TVs Questions to the First Minister(Thursdays) when in session, you talk about clowns being in charge of Brexit nah they are at Holyrood, the bad bad Tories and Westminster are to blame for everything regarding the above link article content. I want Scotland to do well, part of a strong UK out of Europe and as for the
SNP at Westminster, 3rd largest party, bring on a General Election I say, SNP voters torn in decision, flavour of the month Lib Dems, strong United Kingdom remain in the EU.
Oily
Franglais:
fodenway:
To reply to Franglais’ question -
“It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Yes.
“Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU”.
Which is YOUR interpretation of it. But what do YOU mean by “no longer tied to the EU”? (quote),I meant that the UK should not be bound by EU rules, regulations, directives and laws, but rather set our own, as we did before our entry into what was then said to be simply a mutually beneficial trading arrangement, the Common Market. But that changed out of all recognition, and is still changing. Of course we can continue to deal with European countries, and others around the world, but in a spirit of co-operation rather than obligation. Many standards can sensibly remain, others could be changed to suit particular markets or circumstances. As the old saying goes, “where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
But as ever “the devil is in the detail”.
If we want to sell goods into the EU we MUST obey their standards.
After all we wont accept any goods if they dont conform to our standards will we?What is “sensible”?
Look at food: the US accepts GM, high stock levels (over-crowding) and high usage of hormones and antibiotics in their products.
If and when they sign a deal with us they will say these are all “sensible” things. We may well not agree.Going back to standards will a car maker really want to develop two different engines with differing pollution settings for the EU and UK?
Where we are now, we have a say in setting standards and norms, when we leave we won`t. Our manufacturers will still need to meet EU standards to export, but will no longer have influence on those rules.Could it be done? "Where there is a will, there
s a way". Yes, it could. At great expense and inconvenience that could see our industry and farming hit very hard. Of course we could chop off one of our hands if we grit our teeth and try, but it really aint a good idea.
But you’re obviously not talking about meeting EU standards for stuff sold THERE.You’re talking about EU rule being applied to domestic government policies and what’s sold HERE.As for which standards do we obey feel free to explain which ‘standards’ that New Zealand goes by.Here’s a clue they aren’t bound by EU standards regarding domestic government policy or anything sold ‘THERE’. 
ramone:
So in your words a vote is out of date as soon as it is over because others have reached a voting age the day after or a week after , really ?
It’s clear that isn’t what these Federalist fools mean at all.They just want whatever they think is most likely to deliver the result they want.Whether that means gerrymandering votes across ( former ) established National borders or cherry picking whichever type of electoral regime works best for them.
As for important for future generations.Absolutely just like all those who died in the US and Yugoslav wars of Federal aggression or freeing Ireland from UK rule for just three examples.
oiltreader:
“And a fine job she’s doing too”
Hi dexxy57 can’t agree with that about the the leader of a party that is considered left of centre and slated by a left leaning publication here newstatesman.com/politics/s … as-exposed
I have been back “home” 20+ years now having spent the best part of 40 south of the border. Being old and a leaver (you’ll class me as a geriatric) I am able to watch TVs Questions to the First Minister(Thursdays) when in session, you talk about clowns being in charge of Brexit nah they are at Holyrood, the bad bad Tories and Westminster are to blame for everything regarding the above link article content. I want Scotland to do well, part of a strong UK out of Europe and as for the
SNP at Westminster, 3rd largest party, bring on a General Election I say, SNP voters torn in decision, flavour of the month Lib Dems, strong United Kingdom remain in the EU.
Oily
The UK is just another Federalist institution and all those who support it are just providing obvious ammunition to those using exactly the same reasoning as to why the UK being part of the EU is supposedly good for us.IE the flawed reasoning is exactly the same.There’s nothing good about Scottish MP’s deciding English policy or vice versa or us chucking money at the place so that they can provide more public spending for their own at our expense.
As for the SNP,like zb Fein,they are just Socialists masquerading as Nationalists to hijack a naive Nationalist vote.All wanting to sell out Scotland and England to the bigger Federal monster of the EU.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
fodenway:
To reply to Franglais’ question -
“It seems to me that a lot of people have different interpretations about what Brexit means”
Yes.
“Which, in the case of Brexit, is to be no longer tied to the EU”.
Which is YOUR interpretation of it. But what do YOU mean by “no longer tied to the EU”? (quote),I meant that the UK should not be bound by EU rules, regulations, directives and laws, but rather set our own, as we did before our entry into what was then said to be simply a mutually beneficial trading arrangement, the Common Market. But that changed out of all recognition, and is still changing. Of course we can continue to deal with European countries, and others around the world, but in a spirit of co-operation rather than obligation. Many standards can sensibly remain, others could be changed to suit particular markets or circumstances. As the old saying goes, “where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
But as ever “the devil is in the detail”.
If we want to sell goods into the EU we MUST obey their standards.
After all we wont accept any goods if they dont conform to our standards will we?What is “sensible”?
Look at food: the US accepts GM, high stock levels (over-crowding) and high usage of hormones and antibiotics in their products.
If and when they sign a deal with us they will say these are all “sensible” things. We may well not agree.Going back to standards will a car maker really want to develop two different engines with differing pollution settings for the EU and UK?
Where we are now, we have a say in setting standards and norms, when we leave we won`t. Our manufacturers will still need to meet EU standards to export, but will no longer have influence on those rules.Could it be done? "Where there is a will, there
s a way". Yes, it could. At great expense and inconvenience that could see our industry and farming hit very hard. Of course we could chop off one of our hands if we grit our teeth and try, but it really aint a good idea.But you’re obviously not talking about meeting EU standards for stuff sold THERE.You’re talking about EU rule being applied to domestic government policies and what’s sold HERE.As for which standards do we obey feel free to explain which ‘standards’ that New Zealand goes by.Here’s a clue they aren’t bound by EU standards regarding domestic government policy or anything sold ‘THERE’.
You’re right. Even my pet cat can’t tell the difference between round and square pin EU / UK plugs. 
Carryfast:
But you’re obviously not talking about meeting EU standards for stuff sold THERE.You’re talking about EU rule being applied to domestic government policies and what’s sold HERE.As for which standards do we obey feel free to explain which ‘standards’ that New Zealand goes by.Here’s a clue they aren’t bound by EU standards regarding domestic government policy or anything sold ‘THERE’
What is the point is Nissan producing one type of engine for the UK and another for the EU? Two standards equals two lots of expenses.
What is the point of us having clean factories if competitors have dirtier, cheaper ones?
What is the point is us having ethically, humanely raised farm animals if cheaper factory farmed produce is imported without tariffs, and how can we sell our better, but more expensive food if we are competition with others?
We do not exist in a bubble.
And we are are no longer at the hub of an Empire where we get to set the rules in our favour. To have real influence we need to participate not wander off in a sulk, and expect to be pandered to.
oiltreader:
Hi dexxy57 can’t agree with that about the the leader of a party that is considered left of centre and slated by a left leaning publication here newstatesman.com/politics/s … as-exposed
I have been back “home” 20+ years now having spent the best part of 40 south of the border. Being old and a leaver (you’ll class me as a geriatric) I am able to watch TVs Questions to the First Minister(Thursdays) when in session, you talk about clowns being in charge of Brexit nah they are at Holyrood, the bad bad Tories and Westminster are to blame for everything regarding the above link article content. I want Scotland to do well, part of a strong UK out of Europe and as for the
SNP at Westminster, 3rd largest party, bring on a General Election I say, SNP voters torn in decision, flavour of the month Lib Dems, strong United Kingdom remain in the EU.
Oily
Aye, fair enough. That wasn’t a flattering article.
And yet they’ve been in power for 9 years, and are currently miles ahead in the polls. We’ll see what happens at the next election in 2021, but they do seem to be popular.
Any party has its ups and downs. No party gets everything right.
Went out on a little sortie to Lee on the Solent at lunchtime today as you do, there is a tiny café no more than 20ft x 20ft in size we had a mug of tomato soup and one of tea, plus a small platter of a sausage and about 20 chips and two rock cakes all for a smidgeon over a fiver which in todays world is extremely reasonable.
While there I noticed some construction work was being done so got out of the car and read the explanatory board on the fence a photo of which is below and apparently it is an under the channel power supply from France, my question is why can we not make enough power here and what happens if we do leave the EU, will they just pull the plug or is this another myth about not trading with the UK. It does say it will make our power supply cheaper but I cannot see Macron letting us have a bargain especially when they wont be able to fish in our waters just cant see that happening at all, just wondering that’s all, Buzzer.
“1.4 Electricity
The first point to note about net
imports of electricity is that they
form a very small proportion of
total primary energy supply. The
figures cover transfers between
Northern Ireland and the Irish
Republic up to 1980 and from 1996 onwards and between France and
England from 1986 onwards. The UK has been a net importer of
electricity in each year since the interconnector with France opened. At
its peak in 2015 this was only responsible for 6.6% of UK electricity
supply or 0.9% of total primary energy supply”
Source Commons Briefing Paper 2018.
We`ve been importing electricity for decades, maybe not a lot, but steadily.
As our current nuclear stations reach their life`s end, and successive governments put off decisions about building new ones, will it get better for us? Guess not.