ERF-NGC-European:
I wonder if this thread would be better placed in Bully’s Truckstop forum?
No, I don’t think so. We are where we are because of an almost complete breakdown of democracy in this country by the elite establishment, so it’s no wonder feelings are running rather high.
Fair point but I my question was not based on opinions, emotions running high etc, about which I have no problems; rather it was about the fact the thread is entirely political and very rarely touches on transport. I was merely suggesting a separate category. Robert
That’s a very fair point from you also, I’m just a humble lorry driver and my every working day is just about transport, but what’s occurring now has engaged me into politics like nothing has before, even the poll tax shambles all those years ago and I still continued to vote conservative from that time on, but what’s going on now with conservative MP’s thinking of siding with that dangerous Marxist labour shower of ■■■■ and possibly an alliance with the Liberal undemocratic lot fills me with horror.
Franglais:
No
No
Yes
Twice Johnson voted against Mays deal…then, the third time, for it.
So at the best he was 66% correct ?
But the point I was trying to make is that there was a vote to leave the EU, and twice he voted against it.
Why? Because it wasnt the particular sort of Brexit he wanted. But as you have said, the referendum vote didnt specify any one particular sort of Brexit, it was a simple yes/no choice…and Johnson twice said “no”.
Im using your argument to show that the referendum didnt specify what Brexit really is.
Once again, different people having different ideas on what they were voting on.
And a leading Brexiteer not knowing his arse from his elbow, as if we needed more proof.
And so we come full circle . . . for the umpteenth time.
It was a simple binary question at the time (God it seems so long ago), did we want to Leave or Remain? Simple as that. Yes or No. Leave or Remain. We chose Leave.
Surely the fact that more than 3 years after voting to leave we are still dithering and debating the terms of exit proves that it wasn’t quite as simple as it seemed at the time?
The clown in Number 10 says we’re leaving on 31st October, no messing about, we’re out.
Fair enough.
Play to the populist gallery Boris. What can possibly go wrong?
Franglais:
No
No
Yes
Twice Johnson voted against Mays deal…then, the third time, for it.
So at the best he was 66% correct ?
But the point I was trying to make is that there was a vote to leave the EU, and twice he voted against it.
Why? Because it wasnt the particular sort of Brexit he wanted. But as you have said, the referendum vote didnt specify any one particular sort of Brexit, it was a simple yes/no choice…and Johnson twice said “no”.
Im using your argument to show that the referendum didnt specify what Brexit really is.
Once again, different people having different ideas on what they were voting on.
And a leading Brexiteer not knowing his arse from his elbow, as if we needed more proof.
And so we come full circle . . . for the umpteenth time.
It was a simple binary question at the time (God it seems so long ago), did we want to Leave or Remain? Simple as that. Yes or No. Leave or Remain. We chose Leave.
Surely the fact that more than 3 years after voting to leave we are still dithering and debating the terms of exit proves that it wasn’t quite as simple as it seemed at the time?
The clown in Number 10 says we’re leaving on 31st October, no messing about, we’re out.
Fair enough.
Play to the populist gallery Boris. What can possibly go wrong?
“What can possibly go wrong”?
I wonder if Cameron had those thoughts when he put the referendum idea into the 2015 Tory manifesto? [emoji23]
Franglais:
“What can possibly go wrong”?
I wonder if Cameron had those thoughts when he put the referendum idea into the 2015 Tory manifesto? [emoji23]
Exactly. He was trying to cope with the growing popularity of UKIP and a faction of his own Party that were veering towards either joining or supporting UKIP. His sole priority was damage limitation for the Conservatives. At the same time he was blissfully unaware of how much resentment there was in the country about austerity, Universal Credit and seemingly uncontrolled immigration. His woefully empty head didn’t entertain the slightest possibility that his bluff would be called.
He could not, if he tried, have presented a better scapegoat for the people to vent their frustration on than the EU. The Referendum was an absolute gift to the likes of Farage, Gove and Boris.
By the way, there’s a lot of criticism of the way ‘unelected’ bureaucrats in Brussels seem to influence the way things are done in the UK.
I may have missed it on the news, but when was Dominic ■■■■■■■■ elected?
ERF-NGC-European:
I wonder if this thread would be better placed in Bully’s Truckstop forum?
No, I don’t think so. We are where we are because of an almost complete breakdown of democracy in this country by the elite establishment, so it’s no wonder feelings are running rather high.
Fair point but I my question was not based on opinions, emotions running high etc, about which I have no problems; rather it was about the fact the thread is entirely political and very rarely touches on transport. I was merely suggesting a separate category. Robert
This discussion has become political purely as the fact of the matter is that the MP’s in Whitehall are the ones orchestrating this debacle instead of doing what they are paid to do which is to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the nation.
As Bigstraight6 has said people who normally would not necessarily be into politics have been drawn into it purely through frustration of the situation we find ourselves in and that is due entirely by the rabble we have installed in Whitehall, it is truly a disgraceful situation and needs to be sorted PDQ so this once great country of ours can get on with normal life instead of this continuous Brexit saga.
Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out had it not been for all this ■■■■■■■■ to oust him just because he wants to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the population, if there was not all this interference from rebels the EU may have took us seriously and remove the backstop in which case we may have reached some sort of a deal and we could leave with a modicum of mutual satisfaction to both sides, as it is they must be thinking we as a nation cannot make our mind up if we want sourcrout, frogs legs or just fish and chips, I will leave it to you lot to digest this post and spit out the bits you don’t like, Buzzer.
Franglais:
“What can possibly go wrong”?
I wonder if Cameron had those thoughts when he put the referendum idea into the 2015 Tory manifesto? [emoji23]
Exactly. He was trying to cope with the growing popularity of UKIP and a faction of his own Party that were veering towards either joining or supporting UKIP. His sole priority was damage limitation for the Conservatives. At the same time he was blissfully unaware of how much resentment there was in the country about austerity, Universal Credit and seemingly uncontrolled immigration. His woefully empty head didn’t entertain the slightest possibility that his bluff would be called.
He could not, if he tried, have presented a better scapegoat for the people to vent their frustration on than the EU. The Referendum was an absolute gift to the likes of Farage, Gove and Boris.
By the way, there’s a lot of criticism of the way ‘unelected’ bureaucrats in Brussels seem to influence the way things are done in the UK.
I may have missed it on the news, but when was Dominic ■■■■■■■■ elected?
About the same time Ma Kranky got voted in , in Scotland
Buzzer:
This discussion has become political purely as the fact of the matter is that the MP’s in Whitehall are the ones orchestrating this debacle instead of doing what they are paid to do which is to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the nation.
As Bigstraight6 has said people who normally would not necessarily be into politics have been drawn into it purely through frustration of the situation we find ourselves in and that is due entirely by the rabble we have installed in Whitehall, it is truly a disgraceful situation and needs to be sorted PDQ so this once great country of ours can get on with normal life instead of this continuous Brexit saga.
Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out had it not been for all this ■■■■■■■■ to oust him just because he wants to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the population, if there was not all this interference from rebels the EU may have took us seriously and remove the backstop in which case we may have reached some sort of a deal and we could leave with a modicum of mutual satisfaction to both sides, as it is they must be thinking we as a nation cannot make our mind up if we want sourcrout, frogs legs or just fish and chips, I will leave it to you lot to digest this post and spit out the bits you don’t like, Buzzer.
“Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out”
Twice he voted against “some sort of deal”. If he and other Brexiteers hadnt voted against the May deal....? So, will you say "Her deal isnt the one we voted for"?
Well, you have often said it was a simple in/out choice on the referendum paper, so why did Johnson and others vote against leaving under the May deal? You have pointed out that “deal/no-deal” wasnt on the ballot, but neither was "backstop/no-backstop". . A simple "yes/no" question cant answer a complex problem.
.
And maybe some will have now seen that the deal they did vote for was mere “pie in the sky” nonsense.
ramone:
About the same time Ma Kranky got voted in , in Scotland
Cheers Ramone, where fact-checking is required, you’re the man.
Fact checking ■■? Ma Kranky was put in charge of the Scottish Democrats without a democratic vote from the members whereas Salmon left because ,well i’m not too sure about that but im sure you do
Buzzer:
This discussion has become political purely as the fact of the matter is that the MP’s in Whitehall are the ones orchestrating this debacle instead of doing what they are paid to do which is to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the nation.
As Bigstraight6 has said people who normally would not necessarily be into politics have been drawn into it purely through frustration of the situation we find ourselves in and that is due entirely by the rabble we have installed in Whitehall, it is truly a disgraceful situation and needs to be sorted PDQ so this once great country of ours can get on with normal life instead of this continuous Brexit saga.
Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out had it not been for all this ■■■■■■■■ to oust him just because he wants to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the population, if there was not all this interference from rebels the EU may have took us seriously and remove the backstop in which case we may have reached some sort of a deal and we could leave with a modicum of mutual satisfaction to both sides, as it is they must be thinking we as a nation cannot make our mind up if we want sourcrout, frogs legs or just fish and chips, I will leave it to you lot to digest this post and spit out the bits you don’t like, Buzzer.
“Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out”
Twice he voted against “some sort of deal”. If he and other Brexiteers hadnt voted against the May deal....? So, will you say "Her deal isnt the one we voted for"?
Well, you have often said it was a simple in/out choice on the referendum paper, so why did Johnson and others vote against leaving under the May deal? You have pointed out that “deal/no-deal” wasnt on the ballot, but neither was "backstop/no-backstop". . A simple "yes/no" question cant answer a complex problem.
.
And maybe some will have now seen that the deal they did vote for was mere “pie in the sky” nonsense.
The deal May proposed still left the EU in charge of our destiny so it was a remain deal we voted out .
Buzzer:
This discussion has become political purely as the fact of the matter is that the MP’s in Whitehall are the ones orchestrating this debacle instead of doing what they are paid to do which is to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the nation.
As Bigstraight6 has said people who normally would not necessarily be into politics have been drawn into it purely through frustration of the situation we find ourselves in and that is due entirely by the rabble we have installed in Whitehall, it is truly a disgraceful situation and needs to be sorted PDQ so this once great country of ours can get on with normal life instead of this continuous Brexit saga.
Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out had it not been for all this ■■■■■■■■ to oust him just because he wants to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the population, if there was not all this interference from rebels the EU may have took us seriously and remove the backstop in which case we may have reached some sort of a deal and we could leave with a modicum of mutual satisfaction to both sides, as it is they must be thinking we as a nation cannot make our mind up if we want sourcrout, frogs legs or just fish and chips, I will leave it to you lot to digest this post and spit out the bits you don’t like, Buzzer.
“Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out”
Twice he voted against “some sort of deal”. If he and other Brexiteers hadnt voted against the May deal....? So, will you say "Her deal isnt the one we voted for"?
Well, you have often said it was a simple in/out choice on the referendum paper, so why did Johnson and others vote against leaving under the May deal? You have pointed out that “deal/no-deal” wasnt on the ballot, but neither was "backstop/no-backstop". . A simple "yes/no" question cant answer a complex problem.
.
And maybe some will have now seen that the deal they did vote for was mere “pie in the sky” nonsense.
The deal May proposed still left the EU in charge of our destiny so it was a remain deal we voted out .
No. It was a leave deal.
Maybe it was a leave deal you dont like, but leave it was. Even Johnson voted for it on the third occasion. But there we are again. The original referendum was an ill thought out idea. And that simple question has many interpretations to it. As many point out that the original campaign mentioned nowt of "a no-deal hard Brexit", only an easy "no loose" transaction, but neither did it specify that there could be "no backstop" to be a valid exit. You cant really argue that *yours* is the only interpretation of what Brexit is or isnt.
That wouldn`t be very democratic would it?
Not sure how anyone can argue that this thread has become political. It was political from the outset. The title says it all.
Never was anything to do with lorries, apart from the effect on the industry in which we all work, or have worked.
It was, is, and always has been, a political thread. There may be a case for removing some of the more extreme posts, or taking down the thread altogether, but moving it somewhere else isn’t going to change its nature.
Spardo:
Not sure how anyone can argue that this thread has become political. It was political from the outset. The title says it all.
Never was anything to do with lorries, apart from the effect on the industry in which we all work, or have worked.
It was, is, and always has been, a political thread. There may be a case for removing some of the more extreme posts, or taking down the thread altogether, but moving it somewhere else isn’t going to change its nature.
My point entirely . It should probably have been created in Bully’s forum at inception, or removed there on day one Robert
Spardo:
Not sure how anyone can argue that this thread has become political. It was political from the outset. The title says it all.
Never was anything to do with lorries, apart from the effect on the industry in which we all work, or have worked.
It was, is, and always has been, a political thread. There may be a case for removing some of the more extreme posts, or taking down the thread altogether, but moving it somewhere else isn’t going to change its nature.
My point entirely . It should probably have been created in Bully’s forum at inception, or removed there on day one Robert
Perhaps Buzzer thought that it would only be old time drivers that would be interested?
How can any deal which allows the EU to still run our country and impose its rules on us be a ‘leave’ deal. It was a BRINO deal and you know it and that’s why your lot wanted/want it and put your stooge May in to deliver it.As for BoJo still no statement that he’s withdrawn the government’s defence to the Tilbrook case.No surprise there from the party which took us into the stinking Federal zb pile and a charlatan who is on record as being supportive of the EU.
Also bearing in mind the conflict of interest in the Queen having given assent to European Communities Act and US Federal government.As opposed to a successful Secession taking place in Europe.Thereby by implication making the case for a Confederate States of Europe and more importantly the US.It really ain’t going to happen.
Buzzer:
Boris may have had a chance to sort out some sort of deal out had it not been for all this ■■■■■■■■ to oust him just because he wants to carry out the democratic wish of the majority of the population, if there was not all this interference from rebels
You do know that BoJo was actually for the EU.It’s obvious that he’s been put in to replace May because May was hopeless at hiding her remainer credentials.The ‘rebels’ would be zb’d if he just withdraws the government’s defence against the Tilbrook case being the named respondent.But he obviously won’t do that.Because 1 it would mean the Queen has to implicate herself in having signed the assent to the European Communities Act and then reversing that assent on grounds of sovereignty and 2 the US government can’t afford to allow secession to succeed within the EU.Which it always intended to be made in its own image and without the implication of Texas for one then rightly saying what about us.
Spardo:
A bit unfair I thought, some people liked Allegros.
The Allegro is a typical product of this country being a subservient third rate puppet of the German elites IE post 1972.As opposed to the Westminster and 3 litre Healey.
Spardo:
Not sure how anyone can argue that this thread has become political. It was political from the outset. The title says it all.
Never was anything to do with lorries, apart from the effect on the industry in which we all work, or have worked.
It was, is, and always has been, a political thread. There may be a case for removing some of the more extreme posts, or taking down the thread altogether, but moving it somewhere else isn’t going to change its nature.
My point entirely . It should probably have been created in Bully’s forum at inception, or removed there on day one Robert
Let’s have a referendum as to whether Buzzer’s topic belongs here as a specialist old timers topic concerning the EU which we were never part of for most of the ‘old timer’ years.
As for Spardo’s bs what a surprise a raving quisling German Federalist hates freedom of expression and self determination.
Robert
. It should probably have been created in Bully’s forum at inception, or removed there on day one 
It was a BRINO deal and you know it and that’s why your lot wanted/want it and put your stooge May in to deliver it.As for BoJo still no statement that he’s withdrawn the government’s defence to the Tilbrook case.No surprise there from the party which took us into the stinking Federal zb pile and a charlatan who is on record as being supportive of the EU.
