whiplash:
GD,accept what you`re saying,just meant it as a polar opposite,if opposite sides in both our countries history can shake hands,why not after all these years,Germany and Britain.
There’s a difference between ‘shaking hands’ on the basis that rivalry and competing with each other,goes with the territory,of us being a non aligned Germanic based independent Nation State.But which doesn’t mean killing each other nor accepting the blackmail of German rule over us or Europe in the form of German Federalism.
As opposed to appeasement in case they decide to kick off again.With it being obvious that the EU is all about the latter.
On that note did you read my example of German WW2 vets and Brits and Italians all mixing together on European holidays on German and Italian turf including the tolerating of old German marching war songs being sung.Often with retaliation in the form of the Dambusters theme being whistled and Bluebirds Over the White Cliffs of Dover and Bella Ciao being sung with copious quantities of German beer and food being consumed by all and all going home peacefully at the end.
Franglais:
“German Federal aggression”■■ So the Nazis were really federalists??
Post WW2 the Germans had surrendered. They had literally given up…everything…
Germany was by definition a Federal State from 1871 and the ■■■■ Germany was just another incarnation of that.The clue is in the title 3rd Reich assuming you can understand numbers and that 1 and 2 comes before 3.On that note it’s clear that the EU is effectively just another expansion of German Federalism in the form of a 4th Reich.As for Post War Germany remind us of the place’s official title as of 1949.
Franglais:
“German Federal aggression”■■ So the Nazis were really federalists??
Post WW2 the Germans had surrendered. They had literally given up…everything…
Germany was by definition a Federal State from 1871 and the ■■■■ Germany was just another incarnation of that.The clue is in the title 3rd Reich assuming you can understand numbers and that 1 and 2 comes before 3.On that note it’s clear that the EU is effectively just another expansion of German Federalism in the form of a 4th Reich.As for Post War Germany remind us of the place’s official title as of 1949.
Carryfast you’re correct about Germany being federalist from 1871 - 1918, it was known as Deutsches Reich meaning German Empire, but Reich doesn’t mean Empire it means Realm and during this period it was also known as KaiserReich.
In the 1920’s Germany wanted to regain its imperialistic prowess in the world so looked to Russia, but that would mean adopting communism.
Hitler was neither a federalist nor a communist he was a nationalist and Hitlers 3rd Reich or 3rd Realm would be a new beginning for Germany in the form of Nationalism, his vision of Nationalism and turning away from Federalism divided Germany.
If the EU is anything to do with the German vision it’s not the 3rd Realm but the Federalist Germany that Hitler despised.
Carryfast:
Germany was by definition a Federal State from 1871 and the ■■■■ Germany was just another incarnation of that.The clue is in the title 3rd Reich assuming you can understand numbers and that 1 and 2 comes before 3.On that note it’s clear that the EU is effectively just another expansion of German Federalism in the form of a 4th Reich.As for Post War Germany remind us of the place’s official title as of 1949.
Carryfast you’re correct about Germany being federalist from 1871 - 1918, it was known as Deutsches Reich meaning German Empire, but Reich doesn’t mean Empire it means Realm and during this period it was also known as KaiserReich.
In the 1920’s Germany wanted to regain its imperialistic prowess in the world so looked to Russia, but that would mean adopting communism.
Hitler was neither a federalist nor a communist he was a nationalist and Hitlers 3rd Reich or 3rd Realm would be a new beginning for Germany in the form of Nationalism, his vision of Nationalism and turning away from Federalism divided Germany.
If the EU is anything to do with the German vision it’s not the 3rd Realm but the Federalist Germany that Hitler despised.
Federalism by definition meant a unified assimilated Germany.On that basis there was no such state as Germany for Hitler to rule over before 1871.IE how could Hitler possibly have despised something which gave him his ultimate power base having hijacked the Weimar Republic.While Nationalists also by definition don’t tear down borders and install puppet regimes in other states.IE a true Nationalist would have wanted to return ‘Germany’ to it’s former Nation States and celebrated the self determination and individal sovereignty of the neighbouring European states.On that note it’s clear that Hitler was a Socialist not a Nationalist,unlike Michael Collins.As such,unlike Michael Collins,wanting to create his version of the USSR in Europe.Just like Arch Duke Ferdinand and then Tito tried to do in the Balkans etc.
On that note that’s the relevant definition of Nationalism in Europe.( Friends with Fences ).
As always that’s the definition of Federal aggression in Europe.Peace yeah right.JNA rampaging across Slovenia yesterday.EU Federal forces stamping out the self determination of Europe’s nation states tomorrow in a Europe made in Germany’s image.
You’re obsessed with federalism and refuse to accept any other input Carryfast you must be a bundle of fun on the lash, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself from here on in
Grumpy Dad:
You’re obsessed with federalism and refuse to accept any other input Carryfast you must be a bundle of fun on the lash, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself from here on in
No GD dont do that. Most people on here can give their,and respect others,opinion.(Yours,for example on my Martin McGuinness/Queen Elizabeth point).Certain few cant,and wont allow any other opinions,and shout them down with insults,either personal or general,and use of indecipherable language. Its an open public forum,for people to discuss matters,and whilst sometime it goes off target,surely the original concept had by its founders all those years ago of chat and debate still holds through.
Keep on chattin`!
Here, Hear to the above post by Whiplash, I think your posts are rational and have some good content so don’t be put of with CF, he is well known on this thread to disagree with almost anyone else’s contributions. Best just ignore his posts as they are usually long and boring to boot, keep on tapping them keys, Buzzer.
Grumpy Dad:
You’re obsessed with federalism and refuse to accept any other input Carryfast you must be a bundle of fun on the lash, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself from here on in
Sorry if you missed it but the argument between the country surviving as a sovereign nation state,v becoming a vassal state of the EU.Is actually just the simple choice of going along with what is just an extension of German Federalism ( the EU being the end game of that ) v Nationalism and Secession.
IE the choice between Federalism v National Sovereignty and independence and with it the local accountability of who rules us,is the key issue here.Just as most/all of the wars in Europe throughout history have been.
Buzzer:
don’t be put of with CF, he is well known on this thread to disagree with almost anyone else’s contributions.
You mean like disagreement with your ideas,that an ideologically Federalist rabble,in the form of the Tory Party,have the slightest intention of going along with a Secessionist agenda.Or handing the agenda to the Remainers on a plate,because your idea of Brexit is to return the country to the 1930’s or before,even if by some miracle Bo Jo was actually the real deal.Although I doubt if you even understand the difference between Federalism v Secession anyway.On that note didn’t see any rule that only posts which agree with yours are allowed obviously even under the scrutiny of pre mod.
Doesn’t the definition of Bundes mean Republic whereas federalism in German is Föderalismus.
■■■■ Germany was split within itself and each of the gauleiters ( ■■■■ party leaders ) were given control of the regional administration, this together with the jurisdiction of the SS gave it the over all impression of federalism -state within a state.
This wasn’t the case because the gau system was not federal and the Third Reich was central to Hitler.
Being regional doesn’t make it federal, if that were the case Britain has been federal for centuries.
And before you reply because we are a Sovereign nation, from 1871 - 1918 so was Germany, it had its own monarchy the Kaisers who were both Emperors and Kings of Prussia.
Grumpy Dad:
Doesn’t the definition of Bundes mean Republic whereas federalism in German is Föderalismus.
■■■■ Germany was split within itself and the gauleiters ( ■■■■ party leaders ) were given control of the administration, this together with the jurisdiction of the SS gave it the over all impression of federalism -state within a state.
This wasn’t the case because the gau system was not federal and the Third Reich was central to Hitler.
Being regional doesn’t make it federal, if that were the case Britain has been federal for centuries.
And before you reply because we are a Sovereign nation, from 1871 - 1918 so was Germany, it had its own monarchy the Kaisers who were both Emperors and Kings of Prussia.
Great so now we can get back to the very heart of the issue.Federation v Nation.
Firstly having a relative who gave his life to liberate Ireland from the UK yes the UK is a Federation ruled by a Federal government just like Germany.With former Nations States turned into vassal ‘regions’ under foreign rule and the local mandate trumped by a foreign one.Oh wait now we can see the problem in the Conservative ‘Federalist’ Party going along with an agenda of Secession in Europe which it knows could come back to bite it big time at home.
As for Bundestaat yes that means Federation too and really can’t believe that anyone could possibly think that it could mean anything other than that in the case of Germany since at least 1871.
On that note it’s clear that the 3rd Reich was just a hijacking and evolution of the 2nd Reich.In all cases the Federation being the sovereign power and taking over the role of ‘Nation’ not the former constituent Nation States.In this case that gave Hitler the power to automatically apply his madness to firstly all of Germany and then his almost successful attempt to extend it across Europe.In the form of numerous puppet regimes like Petain’s for example in France.While De Gaull and the Free French forces were obviously viewed as Nationalist rebels under that thinking and often paid the price for it.Just as in the case of Slovene etc secession from the Yugoslav Federation and all the other examples of the right of self determination meeting Federalism head on throughout history.Of which make no mistake WW2 was one.With Federal aggression usually being dressed up firstly as we come in peace before trashing the place and its society and subjugating the population when it doesn’t go their way.From the Roman Legions to the JNA and no doubt the EU Federal army in the not too distant future.All to provide centralised power for numerous despots across the centuries including here at home in the case of the Plantagenet invasion and subjugation of Ireland and Scotland and the Georgian massacre and deportations of the Scots in the aftermath of Culloden all to create the so called glorious ‘UK’.Yes ‘United’ by force and blood shed.
Carryfast it’s yours I should have stuck to my guns and not replied, you’re adamant you’re right and everyone else is wrong. Enjoy the thread
Not to worry being a member of a FEDERALIST super state with hidden COMMUNIST agendas under the guise of LIBERAL SOCIALISM while conforming to TOTALITARIANISM and benefiting from CAPITALISM that finances DICTATORSHIP and lead by DESPOTISM only harbours resentment and nurtures an OLIGARCHY run nation.
Come on Buzzer now own up ------- you must have been to Leatherhead to get that shot of the Great man ? has he autographed it on the back ? Well mate you’ve managed to post something that no one else has managed which is to get an authentic shot of “CF” ! Cheers Dennis.
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast it’s yours I should have stuck to my guns and not replied, you’re adamant you’re right and everyone else is wrong.
It’s you who’s obviously got issues with anyone daring to disagree with you and then throwing your toys out of the pram.
Sorry but I just don’t buy your idea that Hitler was supposedly an anti Federalist.As opposed to his 3rd Reich just being a logical evolution of the 2nd.In not only maintaining the status quo of subjugating the vassal states which made/make up ‘Germany’,but also then doing the same to those which made up Europe as a whole.If you want to rewrite history in that regard go ahead who gives a zb.I’m sure Macron,Merkel and Juncker would agree with you in now fooling Europe into joining a 4th Reich without firing a shot.
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast it’s yours I should have stuck to my guns and not replied, you’re adamant you’re right and everyone else is wrong.
It’s you who’s obviously got issues with anyone daring to disagree with you and then throwing your toys out of the pram.
Sorry but I just don’t buy your idea that Hitler was supposedly an anti Federalist.As opposed to his 3rd Reich just being a logical evolution of the 2nd.In not only maintaining the status quo of subjugating the vassal states which made/make up ‘Germany’,but also then doing the same to those which made up Europe as a whole.If you want to rewrite history in that regard go ahead who gives a zb.I’m sure Macron,Merkel and Juncker would agree with you in now fooling Europe into joining a 4th Reich without firing a shot.
How you can relate ■■■■ Germany to a modern day federal state is laughable, enjoy the thread and keep convincing yourself you’re correct
Carryfast:
Sorry but I just don’t buy your idea that Hitler was supposedly an anti Federalist.As opposed to his 3rd Reich just being a logical evolution of the 2nd.In not only maintaining the status quo of subjugating the vassal states which made/make up ‘Germany’,but also then doing the same to those which made up Europe as a whole.If you want to rewrite history in that regard go ahead who gives a zb.I’m sure Macron,Merkel and Juncker would agree with you in now fooling Europe into joining a 4th Reich without firing a shot.
How you can relate ■■■■ Germany to a modern day federal state is laughable, enjoy the thread and keep convincing yourself you’re correct
Here’s a clue the definition of a Federal state has nothing to do with when or what that Federal state happens to be.Whether it’s the Roman Empire subjugating Europe to the JNA rampaging across the former Yugoslavia.All having the same abhorrence and common aim of stamping out local self determination and governance accountability,usually by branding it as ‘rebellion’.Or in this case ‘Nationalist extremism’.
History shows that a Federal army is usually used to that aim sooner or later based on whatever bs excuse.The example of the nazis,using the German Federal Army,to tear down Europe’s borders,to impose German rule on its neighbouring states,being just another example.You sound just like a remainer.In trying to dress up German Federalism,obviously including the EU,as a force for good in Europe.As opposed to using the lessons of history and all the alarm bells they set off as a warning in that regard.
Now awaits the bs that the Wehrmacht wasn’t the same thing as the Deutsches Heer and the Bundeswehr and ‘Germany’ in 1914 and 1939,by definition,wasn’t the same ‘Germany’ as Bismark created 1871.
On that note if,as you say,Hitler supposedly despised the German Federation so much why did he name his prized Battleship after its creator ?.But keep convincing yourself that you’re correct.Unfortunately for future generations of Brits like so many others.
Grumpy Dad:
If the EU is anything to do with the German vision it’s not the 3rd Realm but the Federalist Germany that Hitler despised.
No.More like the alarm bells going off from the lessons of history are being ignored and silenced.Because the implications,of a Europe made up of its independent sovereign nation states v German Federalism,are too inconvenient to the interests of US Federalism.
Cheers Dennis.
Regards Larry.
