Grumpy Dad:
whisperingsmith:
How about this from those that were there::
https://twitter.com/i/status/1136687913750712322
The comments in that twitter post are pathetic whinging remoaners
We are your friends but only if you submit to us ruling over you in the form of our 4th Reich. 
My dad was also there in Italy like my Grandfather was during the liberation of France and what I heard was that they were both agreed that there was no such thing as a â â â â who didnât know what he was fighting for and those that said otherwise were liars.
Later proved to me when among old German war vets in the right ( wrong 
) Bavarian,Austrian and some Italian pubs and restaurants on numerous holiday trips during the early 1980âs.Have to admit those old marching songs of theirs which they enthusiastically still sang were bleedin good though.With Brits,Krauts and Italians often all eating Schnitzel and sauer kraut and â â â â â â on German beer together.Also donât remember anyone having any allegiance to the EU flag only our own at the time. 
Grumpy Dad:
whisperingsmith:
How about this from those that were there::
https://twitter.com/i/status/1136687913750712322
The comments in that twitter post are pathetic whinging remoaners
Thanks to WW2 fighters, those who lived to be veterans, and those who died, you are perfectly free to voice those thoughts.
Anyone who wishes to, is free to carry on a grudge from 75 years ago. Anyone who lives here can harbour hatred for those who werenât born at that time 75 years ago.
.
Why anyone objects to Mrs Merkel, born nearly ten years after the end of the war, coming here to honour the fallen is disgusting. The attitudes of those who nurse a grudge will do no good to anyone. If those who actually fought can shake hands with ex-enemies how can some posters here, who werenât born then, be so bitter?
Keeping alive old battles only makes future battles more likely.
Stoking the fires of hatred is no fitting tribute to those who fought. They surely donât want the battles to continue, do they?
.
Those who fought and died won freedom of speech for us all.
Iâm truly saddened some waste it on nasty bitter words.
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
whisperingsmith:
How about this from those that were there::
https://twitter.com/i/status/1136687913750712322
The comments in that twitter post are pathetic whinging remoaners
Thanks to WW2 fighters, those who lived to be veterans, and those who died, you are perfectly free to voice those thoughts.
Anyone who wishes to, is free to carry on a grudge from 75 years ago. Anyone who lives here can harbour hatred for those who werenât born at that time 75 years ago.
.
Why anyone objects to Mrs Merkel, born nearly ten years after the end of the war, coming here to honour the fallen is disgusting. The attitudes of those who nurse a grudge will do no good to anyone. If those who actually fought can shake hands with ex-enemies how can some posters here, who werenât born then, be so bitter?
Keeping alive old battles only makes future battles more likely.
Stoking the fires of hatred is no fitting tribute to those who fought. They surely donât want the battles to continue, do they?
.
Those who fought and died won freedom of speech for us all.
Iâm truly saddened some waste it on nasty bitter words.
Nasty bitter words â â Did you read some of those comments ? Bitterness is two sided franglais, and thereâs a lot of bitterness towards those of us who voted to leave.
Your comment is correct, if it wasnât for those men no one would have the right to free speech, but doesnât that swing both ways, and if not why is it fair for remainers to blame bexiteers ?
I have family members that gave their lives in WW2, as well as WW1, I have served in the army myself being deployed on several operational tours and lost mates, war is terrible and grudges are personal to those who were there ( which ever theatre of operation or campaign ) or those who lost family.
If two former enemies can shakes hands 75 years on its shouldnât be used as a propaganda tool for remainers, D - Day isnât about Brexit itâs about the sacrifice men are willing to give while others sit and gain the right to free speech and democracy, and if you look at that our country as well as the majority of the European Parliament are not very forth coming with our right to democracy and our wish to leave.
cav551:
If Joe Gormley had still been President of the NUM at the time things would have been completely different. His autobiography - which stops with Arthur Scargill election - makes an interesting read. Scargill had been a thorn in his side for some years.
Sadly the miners had lost faith with Gormley, he wasnât a good negotiator when it came to sitting down and asking for more money, power started to move away from him when Scargill secured a walkout in the 70âs.
Gormley was also commented to special branch, he made several statements claiming a raise in militancy at union meetings.
Carryfast:
Spardo:
Grumpy Dad:
The original 6 members didnât sit down and talk of how to stop future wars
Maybe not, but the stated aims had that effect, and even more so today.
Based on what evidence exactly.Bearing in mind that WW1 was kicked off by Federal aggression regarding Serb secession.WW2 was kicked off by two Federal superpowers invading a sovereign Nation State/s and Yugoslavia descended into a War of Federal aggression in answer to secession of itâs constituent states.
Now awaits the answer that WW1 was kicked off by Serb Nationalist aggression against the Austro Hungarian Empire and WW2 was kicked off by Czech and Polish Nationalist aggression towards the German Federation and Soviet Union.While it was the Slovene militia which was the aggressor towards the JNA.You and all the other deluded EU Federalists really are on the wrong side of history here.
Carryfast youâve completely lost me there, youâve turned two comments regarding what and how the ECES / EEC / EU started and spun them around to how WW1 and WW2 started
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
whisperingsmith:
How about this from those that were there::
https://twitter.com/i/status/1136687913750712322
The comments in that twitter post are pathetic whinging remoaners
Thanks to WW2 fighters, those who lived to be veterans, and those who died, you are perfectly free to voice those thoughts.
Anyone who wishes to, is free to carry on a grudge from 75 years ago. Anyone who lives here can harbour hatred for those who werenât born at that time 75 years ago.
.
Why anyone objects to Mrs Merkel, born nearly ten years after the end of the war, coming here to honour the fallen is disgusting. The attitudes of those who nurse a grudge will do no good to anyone. If those who actually fought can shake hands with ex-enemies how can some posters here, who werenât born then, be so bitter?
Keeping alive old battles only makes future battles more likely.
Stoking the fires of hatred is no fitting tribute to those who fought. They surely donât want the battles to continue, do they?
.
Those who fought and died won freedom of speech for us all.
Iâm truly saddened some waste it on nasty bitter words.
Nasty bitter words â â Did you read some of those comments ? Bitterness is two sided franglais, and thereâs a lot of bitterness towards those of us who voted to leave.
Your comment is correct, if it wasnât for those men no one would have the right to free speech, but doesnât that swing both ways, and if not why is it fair for remainers to blame bexiteers ?
I have family members that gave their lives in WW2, as well as WW1, I have served in the army myself being deployed on several operational tours and lost mates, war is terrible and grudges are personal to those who were there ( which ever theatre of operation or campaign ) or those who lost family.
If two former enemies can shakes hands 75 years on its shouldnât be used as a propaganda tool for remainers, D - Day isnât about Brexit itâs about the sacrifice men are willing to give while others sit and gain the right to free speech and democracy, and if you look at that our country as well as the majority of the European Parliament are not very forth coming with our right to democracy and our wish to leave.
Where and when did I mention Brexit.
I didnât.
Those who use D-Day for any political use, apart from democracy and freedom of speech are wrong.
There I agree with you.
I was commenting more on those talking about Merkel, who I did mention. And those who werenât there but hold here today.
I do agree with you that we have no right to criticise any who were actually there, and I didnât do that.
It was wrong of me to single out your post I apologise for that. I see you were attacking those who were using the occasion.
I should have chosen one of the others from higher up the list.
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Scargill didnât kill the industry alone, it was two sided. He was very militant and had gathered support during unofficial strikes in the early 70âs regarding wages, then at the Lofthouse incident he became a hero getting his hands dirty with the rescue teams, but his time as Yorkshire NUM leader he did nothing about the pits Labour had closed ( approx 60 ).
The Tories were given the task by ECES to modernise the coal industry, this was European wide not just aimed at British pits. The cost of this modernisation would cost millions soTories decided that to save the industry they had to look at what would be the most profitable pits to save and modernise, which pits could be sold to private / foreign investors and which pits were running at a loss but whose seams could be salvaged by neighbouring mines. The idea was put before the NUM and it was rejected. After several negotiations failed Scargill brought the men out stating enough pits had closed already and the industry would take no more, tied together with low wages he had a lot of backing.
The pits could have been saved if either side backed down, but standing for a year, floods and build up of gases made many of them unworkable, so apart from the ones earmarked for closure by the Tories ( some of those were already set for closure by labour ) Scargill committed industrial suicide.
The steelworkers were told any industrial action in support would see the steelworks close, as the government would not have another knife held at their throat, they went on strike and Thatcher kept her word.
Scargill and the rank and file were militant because they had reason to be.
While it obviously wasnât just the mining industry and steel industries which she massacred.
On that note yes âmodernisationâ which in reality meant a deliberate policy and process of destroying numerous domestic strategic industries.In large part ironically to the benefit of higher paid German workers and in the case of the mining industry more heavily subsidised coal imports and of course surprise surprise the French nuclear energy industry.
As for that process supposedly only being mines âearmarked for closureâ.Remind us how many actually survive and if it was supposedly all about a planned cull of unworkable mines and Scargillâs intransigence and a militant 1970âs NUM how do you explain the recent closure of the last pit Kellingley ?.Or for that matter the fact that the British working class is now just a weak divided disparate rabble with collapsing wages,terms and conditions to prove it.
Itâs even more ironic and laughable that itâs the hopelessly divided road transport industry workforce calling miners militants and obviously taking remainer Thatcherâs side who did more damage to this country,to he benefit of Germany,than Hitler could have dreamed of.On that note who really gives a zb whether the EU takes the place or not.
Firstly Carryfast my father was a miner in the Notts area, his best mate and drinking buddy was Jimmy Hood ( now leader of the Socialist Workers Party, google him ) Hood helped my father get promoted to deputy after he almost died in an accident, the old union hush hush pay off, Hood was Scargills righthand man Notts, so when you start bleating â â â â youâve read, try living through it.
The Tories gave Scargill an option, but at cost, the previous labour government had closed numerous pits, and pits that closed during the first months of the Tories leadership were labours doing.
The ECES laid down rules that the mining industry European wide needed modernising, the mines around Lille and Ronqc, can still be seen. The Tories gave the NUM the option in a bid to save viable pits, and make money from non viable , by cross mining neighbouring mines, and selling others.
Scargill used this as his final straw and stated there would be no more closures, the government knew that without financial assistance they couldnât afford to fund the modernisation of the viable mines.
Scargill never raised an eyebrow when Labour closed the mines, but as NUM leader he had what Gormley had lost years before and that was the men behind him. He was also prepared to sacrifice the pits earmarked for closure as well as those to be sold, he didnât have anything to loose in theory.
The year long strike and the militancy of the miners not allowing skeleton safety crews in meant firedamp, methane build up and flooding and many of the pits were unworkable and they closed within months of the strike ending along with pits the government had already earmarked.
Thatchers card up her sleeve was a post war agreement with Poland regarding repayment for the military equipment and supplies provided to them, this repayment wasnât cash it was coal, she increased the agreed import quota prior to the strike along with power stations stockpiling, There were also Polish miners on stand by to flown over to work the mines.
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
Spardo:
Grumpy Dad:
The original 6 members didnât sit down and talk of how to stop future wars
Maybe not, but the stated aims had that effect, and even more so today.
Based on what evidence exactly.Bearing in mind that WW1 was kicked off by Federal aggression regarding Serb secession.WW2 was kicked off by two Federal superpowers invading a sovereign Nation State/s and Yugoslavia descended into a War of Federal aggression in answer to secession of itâs constituent states.
Now awaits the answer that WW1 was kicked off by Serb Nationalist aggression against the Austro Hungarian Empire and WW2 was kicked off by Czech and Polish Nationalist aggression towards the German Federation and Soviet Union.While it was the Slovene militia which was the aggressor towards the JNA.You and all the other deluded EU Federalists really are on the wrong side of history here.
Carryfast youâve completely lost me there, youâve turned two comments regarding what and how the ECES / EEC / EU started and spun them around to how WW1 and WW2 started
As I read it the whole conversation was based on an argument,regarding the premise,that Federalism supposedly = peace in Europe ?. 
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
Scargill and the rank and file were militant because they had reason to be.
While it obviously wasnât just the mining industry and steel industries which she massacred.
On that note yes âmodernisationâ which in reality meant a deliberate policy and process of destroying numerous domestic strategic industries.In large part ironically to the benefit of higher paid German workers and in the case of the mining industry more heavily subsidised coal imports and of course surprise surprise the French nuclear energy industry.
As for that process supposedly only being mines âearmarked for closureâ.Remind us how many actually survive and if it was supposedly all about a planned cull of unworkable mines and Scargillâs intransigence and a militant 1970âs NUM how do you explain the recent closure of the last pit Kellingley ?.Or for that matter the fact that the British working class is now just a weak divided disparate rabble with collapsing wages,terms and conditions to prove it.
Itâs even more ironic and laughable that itâs the hopelessly divided road transport industry workforce calling miners militants and obviously taking remainer Thatcherâs side who did more damage to this country,to he benefit of Germany,than Hitler could have dreamed of.On that note who really gives a zb whether the EU takes the place or not.
Firstly Carryfast my father was a miner in the Notts area,
Oh wait Notts area not Yorks,Kent,or Wales.So they got what they wanted a divided working class based on wholesale scabbing and total loss of the solidarity ethic.Remind us how many Notts pits werenât closed down like all the rest.
mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mi ⌠on-4851732
Franglais:
Thanks to WW2 fighters, those who lived to be veterans, and those who died, you are perfectly free to voice those thoughts.
Anyone who wishes to, is free to carry on a grudge from 75 years ago. Anyone who lives here can harbour hatred for those who werenât born at that time 75 years ago.
.
Why anyone objects to Mrs Merkel, born nearly ten years after the end of the war, coming here to honour the fallen is disgusting. The attitudes of those who nurse a grudge will do no good to anyone. If those who actually fought can shake hands with ex-enemies how can some posters here, who werenât born then, be so bitter?
Keeping alive old battles only makes future battles more likely.
Stoking the fires of hatred is no fitting tribute to those who fought. They surely donât want the battles to continue, do they?
.
Those who fought and died won freedom of speech for us all.
Iâm truly saddened some waste it on nasty bitter words.
I agree with all you said there, Franglais, and I also agree that you pressed the wrong quote button. I too was sickened by the xenophobic intolerance of the 2 posts to which I think should have been referred to. One of which I was surprised by, after more reasonable recent comments, but the other came as no surprise at all from an embittered old man.
Franglais:
Where and when did I mention Brexit.
I didnât.
Those who use D-Day for any political use, apart from democracy and freedom of speech are wrong.
There I agree with you.
I was commenting more on those talking about Merkel, who I did mention. And those who werenât there but hold here today.
I do agree with you that we have no right to criticise any who were actually there, and I didnât do that.
It was wrong of me to single out your post I apologise for that. I see you were attacking those who were using the occasion.
I should have chosen one of the others from higher up the list.
[/quote]
No harm done mate, I wasnât pointing the finger at you for saying anything about Brexit and I apologise if it appears as such, it was comments within the twitter post itself that were using d day as anti brexit propaganda, it was the same with the centenary of armistice, no military campaign should be used for political statements, but there are some who use it to push their own beliefs as inappropriate as they are.
Letâs see what they have to say on the 14 June, thatâs if any can remember why itâs significant to some of us.
The Twitter Post doesnât mention Brexit either - just peace & partnership for 75 years
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Where and when did I mention Brexit.
I didnât.
Those who use D-Day for any political use, apart from democracy and freedom of speech are wrong.
There I agree with you.
I was commenting more on those talking about Merkel, who I did mention. And those who werenât there but hold here today.
I do agree with you that we have no right to criticise any who were actually there, and I didnât do that.
It was wrong of me to single out your post I apologise for that. I see you were attacking those who were using the occasion.
I should have chosen one of the others from higher up the list.
No harm done mate, I wasnât pointing the finger at you for saying anything about Brexit and I apologise if it appears as such, it was comments within the twitter post itself that were using d day as anti brexit propaganda, it was the same with the centenary of armistice, no military campaign should be used for political statements, but there are some who use it to push their own beliefs as inappropriate as they are.
Letâs see what they have to say on the 14 June, thatâs if any can remember why itâs significant to some of us.
[/quote]
Thanks for that.
I know you werenât accusing me of mentioning Brexit, but we know some here do love tellling is what we âreally meant to sayâ.
Sometimes we all need to explain what we donât mean as much as what we do mean! A quick post often needs a dozen longer ones to explain it.
whisperingsmith:
The Twitter Post doesnât mention Brexit either - just peace & partnership for 75 years
Well, prompted by Grumpy Dadâs reaction I did go back and read it (donât normally follow links) and to be fair some did bring Brexit into the conversation, but in imo, not in a whingeing way but as a legitimate reference to the importance of European union (my deliberate use of the lower case âuâ) in preventing it ever happening again.
Spardo:
whisperingsmith:
The Twitter Post doesnât mention Brexit either - just peace & partnership for 75 years
Well, prompted by Grumpy Dadâs reaction I did go back and read it (donât normally follow links) and to be fair some did bring Brexit into the conversation, but in imo, not in a whingeing way but as a legitimate reference to the importance of European union (my deliberate use of the lower case âuâ) in preventing it ever happening again.
As itâs a live thread the comments have moved on from the ones I had read, but there are still the odd one or two that bring Brexit into the comments, Brexit is not an issue in these commemorative events, D - Day was not to secure a union throughout Europe, but to stop the onslaught, mass murder and creeping fascism that had taken hold of Europe, if it wasnât for these men and the sacrifice of their brothers in arms todayâs democracy and freedom of speech would not exist.
As a serving soldier I had the privilege to march with some of these men during the 50th anniversary celebrations when Brexit and the EU were not part of our daily lives as they are today, can someone explain what changed in 25 years that makes the actions of heroic men who gave us democracy prevalent in a decision made through democracy ?
Neither side should use WW2 as foundations to support personal views and opinions
Good,level, last few posts there lads.
If these two can do itâ â ?
google.com/search?q=martin+ ⌠ZPJOB4HIqM:
whiplash:
Good,level, last few posts there lads.
If these two can do itâ â ?
google.com/search?q=martin+ ⌠ZPJOB4HIqM:
Slightly out of context there mate, a man who gave orders to kill British troops as well as members of the RUC and bombings across the U.K. which killed and injured innocent civilians, who never faced criminal proceedings against his actions but helped instigate the witch hunt of soldiers involved in military action during the troubles, thereâs a difference between yesterdayâs events and political obligations.
Carryfast:
Oh wait Notts area not Yorks,Kent,or Wales.So they got what they wanted a divided working class based on wholesale scabbing and total loss of the solidarity ethic.Remind us how many Notts pits werenât closed down like all the rest.
Yes, the Democratic Notts coalfield, denied a vote by Scargill which was all they asked for, and never got. There were no scabs in Nottinghamshire. And it was Scargill who divided the miners against each other because he darenât let them vote.
Spardo:
Carryfast:
Oh wait Notts area not Yorks,Kent,or Wales.So they got what they wanted a divided working class based on wholesale scabbing and total loss of the solidarity ethic.Remind us how many Notts pits werenât closed down like all the rest.
Yes, the Democratic Notts coalfield, denied a vote by Scargill which was all they asked for, and never got. There were no scabs in Nottinghamshire. And it was Scargill who divided the miners against each other because he darenât let them vote.
He darenât let them vote because he knew that Thatcher was bribing them with their own jobs and wages.Which is irrelevant anyway when it comes to crossing a picket line no ifs no buts.On that note remind us what happened to the Notts pits and when and in which region the last pit to close was.Obviously long after the closure of the Notts ones ?.
As for democracy you mean like voting a de Facto Nation State out of existence and into EU Federal vassalage.
