Grumpy Dad:
ramone:
Scargill killed the coal industry CF with unrealistic wage demands , the man was a self confessed socialist who split families up and made quite a lot of money in the process. He didnt suffer in the strikes quite the opposite and was investigated for fraud
Scargill didn’t kill the industry alone, it was two sided. He was very militant and had gathered support during unofficial strikes in the early 70’s regarding wages, then at the Lofthouse incident he became a hero getting his hands dirty with the rescue teams, but his time as Yorkshire NUM leader he did nothing about the pits Labour had closed ( approx 60 ).
The Tories were given the task by ECES to modernise the coal industry, this was European wide not just aimed at British pits. The cost of this modernisation would cost millions soTories decided that to save the industry they had to look at what would be the most profitable pits to save and modernise, which pits could be sold to private / foreign investors and which pits were running at a loss but whose seams could be salvaged by neighbouring mines. The idea was put before the NUM and it was rejected. After several negotiations failed Scargill brought the men out stating enough pits had closed already and the industry would take no more, tied together with low wages he had a lot of backing.
The pits could have been saved if either side backed down, but standing for a year, floods and build up of gases made many of them unworkable, so apart from the ones earmarked for closure by the Tories ( some of those were already set for closure by labour ) Scargill committed industrial suicide.
The steelworkers were told any industrial action in support would see the steelworks close, as the government would not have another knife held at their throat, they went on strike and Thatcher kept her word.
A balanced view of history, rare in today’s world. 
Grumpy Dad:
Scargill didn’t kill the industry alone, it was two sided. He was very militant and had gathered support during unofficial strikes in the early 70’s regarding wages, then at the Lofthouse incident he became a hero getting his hands dirty with the rescue teams, but his time as Yorkshire NUM leader he did nothing about the pits Labour had closed ( approx 60 ).
The Tories were given the task by ECES to modernise the coal industry, this was European wide not just aimed at British pits. The cost of this modernisation would cost millions soTories decided that to save the industry they had to look at what would be the most profitable pits to save and modernise, which pits could be sold to private / foreign investors and which pits were running at a loss but whose seams could be salvaged by neighbouring mines. The idea was put before the NUM and it was rejected. After several negotiations failed Scargill brought the men out stating enough pits had closed already and the industry would take no more, tied together with low wages he had a lot of backing.
The pits could have been saved if either side backed down, but standing for a year, floods and build up of gases made many of them unworkable, so apart from the ones earmarked for closure by the Tories ( some of those were already set for closure by labour ) Scargill committed industrial suicide.
The steelworkers were told any industrial action in support would see the steelworks close, as the government would not have another knife held at their throat, they went on strike and Thatcher kept her word.
Scargill and the rank and file were militant because they had reason to be.
While it obviously wasn’t just the mining industry and steel industries which she massacred.
On that note yes ‘modernisation’ which in reality meant a deliberate policy and process of destroying numerous domestic strategic industries.In large part ironically to the benefit of higher paid German workers and in the case of the mining industry more heavily subsidised coal imports and of course surprise surprise the French nuclear energy industry.
As for that process supposedly only being mines ‘earmarked for closure’.Remind us how many actually survive and if it was supposedly all about a planned cull of unworkable mines and Scargill’s intransigence and a militant 1970’s NUM how do you explain the recent closure of the last pit Kellingley ?.Or for that matter the fact that the British working class is now just a weak divided disparate rabble with collapsing wages,terms and conditions to prove it.
It’s even more ironic and laughable that it’s the hopelessly divided road transport industry workforce calling miners militants and obviously taking remainer Thatcher’s side who did more damage to this country,to he benefit of Germany,than Hitler could have dreamed of.On that note who really gives a zb whether the EU takes the place or not. 
If Joe Gormley had still been President of the NUM at the time things would have been completely different. His autobiography - which stops with Arthur Scargill election - makes an interesting read. Scargill had been a thorn in his side for some years.
After watching the television news on BBC this morning watching Macron making a speech at the D Day memorial to the men that fell defending our country one wonders how he really feels as for if it was not for the British and Allied troops he may very well have not been standing there at all, this in reflection of how he is treating us as a nation in regards to Brexit.
One cannot imagine what the outcome would have been had this terrible event not occurred with the loss of over 22000 lives in that operation alone, the other point I wanted to make is WTF was Angela Merkel doing at the remembrance service in Portsmouth yesterday, would have thought there was no place there for anyone from Germany, Buzzer.
Er…Buzzer - that is the whole point. A United Europe - to prevent another war starting…
cav551:
If Joe Gormley had still been President of the NUM at the time things would have been completely different. His autobiography - which stops with Arthur Scargill election - makes an interesting read. Scargill had been a thorn in his side for some years.
Why the double standards.Gormley led the successful 1972 strike.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZbNErRsgYLs
This is interesting especially 3.02 - 5.13 and seems to reflect my own memory in the day.Although having only started work in the factories during the mid 1970’s I didn’t realise that change.Having at the time thought that the older militants were always leading the justified agenda on the basis of Unions can never be too strong.
So Callaghan and Thatcher got their way and here we are in 2019 and where has them having smashed the Unions and with it the Nation’s industry got the working class and the country.Bearing in mind that Thatcher was a Remainer and it’s clear from Scargill’s statements that he was all about defending the Country’s industry and workers not breaking them.
On that note this will mean nothing to the obviously no hope brainwashed Thatcherites but it might just make those like Franglais,or at least Rjan and maybe even cav,think.
youtube.com/watch?v=DF1gJ50eT88
Leave it for today at least please.
kmills:
Er…Buzzer - that is the whole point. A United Europe - to prevent another war starting…
Isn’t that the same excuse which the German Federation,in the form of the 3rd Reich,could also have used.Or for that matter Napoleon to justify his invasions in the cause of his dictatorial European Empire.
Here’s a clue WW2 was all about an alliance of sovereign Nation states acting in defence against the aggression of the Federation ( Germany as of 1871 ).
Not to mention the ‘contribution’ to peace in Europe provided by the Soviet Union,Austro Hungarian Empire and Yugoslav Federation.Oh wait.
Meanwhile also tell that to all those who died fighting in the US war of Federal aggression in 1861-5.
Setting up a new 4th Reich in Europe ain’t going to fix any of that.
Spardo:
kmills:
Er…Buzzer - that is the whole point. A United Europe - to prevent another war starting…
Exactly.
Which historic precedent would suggest that Federations within Europe haven’t been the aggressors in most if not all of its wars.From liberating it from the Roman Empire,to the German Reich in all its forms and the Austro Hungarian Empire to the Wars of Federal aggression in the former Yugoslavia.
Spardo:
kmills:
Er…Buzzer - that is the whole point. A United Europe - to prevent another war starting…
Exactly.
Really ■■ The original 6 members didn’t sit down and talk of how to stop future wars, part of the surrender agreement signed by Germany prevented them from entering any form of military operations that included logistical support.
Rebuilding industries and cutting duties to achieve improved economies were the foundations.
Grumpy Dad:
Spardo:
kmills:
Er…Buzzer - that is the whole point. A United Europe - to prevent another war starting…
Exactly.
Really ■■ The original 6 members didn’t sit down and talk of how to stop future wars, part of the surrender agreement signed by Germany prevented them from entering any form of military operations that included logistical support.
Rebuilding industries and cutting duties to achieve improved economies were the foundations.
Maybe not, but the stated aims had that effect, and even more so today.
Spardo:
Grumpy Dad:
The original 6 members didn’t sit down and talk of how to stop future wars
Maybe not, but the stated aims had that effect, and even more so today.
Based on what evidence exactly.Bearing in mind that WW1 was kicked off by Federal aggression regarding Serb secession.WW2 was kicked off by two Federal superpowers invading a sovereign Nation State/s and Yugoslavia descended into a War of Federal aggression in answer to secession of it’s constituent states.
Now awaits the answer that WW1 was kicked off by Serb Nationalist aggression against the Austro Hungarian Empire and WW2 was kicked off by Czech and Polish Nationalist aggression towards the German Federation and Soviet Union.While it was the Slovene militia which was the aggressor towards the JNA.You and all the other deluded EU Federalists really are on the wrong side of history here.
Buzzer:
After watching the television news on BBC this morning watching Macron making a speech at the D Day memorial to the men that fell defending our country one wonders how he really feels as for if it was not for the British and Allied troops he may very well have not been standing there at all, this in reflection of how he is treating us as a nation in regards to Brexit.
One cannot imagine what the outcome would have been had this terrible event not occurred with the loss of over 22000 lives in that operation alone, the other point I wanted to make is WTF was Angela Merkel doing at the remembrance service in Portsmouth yesterday, would have thought there was no place there for anyone from Germany, Buzzer.
That was exactly the comment my Wife made about Merkel being in attendance yesterday John ! They should have thrown the ■■■■ into the Solent ! Cheers Dennis.
whisperingsmith:
“Peace In Our Time” ■■
Absolutely the Peace that Chamberlain secured by fooling the 3rd Reich.Resulting in it being defeated by an alliance of Nation States to defend the idea of a Europe made up of free thinking and acting sovereign Nation States.
Only to now allow a bunch of deluded Federalists to take the place over again.In the form of what is a 4th Reich in all but name.Including its puppets like Macron and May being the modern day equivalents of Petain.
Bewick:
Buzzer:
After watching the television news on BBC this morning watching Macron making a speech at the D Day memorial to the men that fell defending our country one wonders how he really feels as for if it was not for the British and Allied troops he may very well have not been standing there at all, this in reflection of how he is treating us as a nation in regards to Brexit.
One cannot imagine what the outcome would have been had this terrible event not occurred with the loss of over 22000 lives in that operation alone, the other point I wanted to make is WTF was Angela Merkel doing at the remembrance service in Portsmouth yesterday, would have thought there was no place there for anyone from Germany, Buzzer.
That was exactly the comment my Wife made about Merkel being in attendance yesterday John ! They should have thrown the [zb] into the Solent ! Cheers Dennis.
I questioned the irony of Merkels presence ,
ramone:
I questioned the irony of Merkels presence ,
The irony is the obvious subliminal message that it’s all the fault of those Nationalists like the Serbs and Poles.Rebelling against the German Reich’s god given right to both take over ‘Germany’ and then rule Europe,through its puppet Vichy style regimes.
How about this from those that were there::
whisperingsmith:
How about this from those that were there::
https://twitter.com/i/status/1136687913750712322
The comments in that twitter post are pathetic whinging remoaners
