Buzzer:
Hey up mate you should not worry too much about imports of inferior food as 50% of the population eat crap food here day in day out and the sad thing is they would not even relish a meat and three veg dinner, sad but they say its because they are too busy to bother to cook properly as they do not have the time but then spend a couple of hours on a screen of some sort whiling away there lives.
As for broiler production the old ckook houses in the UK are pretty crowded here in this country as well, all in the name of cheap super market prices, Buzzer.
Please forgive my ignorance and stupidity but my understanding of when Cameron announced we were going have a UK wide referendum he followed it up by saying it was going to be a once in a lifetime vote no if’s and no buts and the result would be respected and if it was a Leave win that would be honoured and we would leave the EU. Cameron also believed that the expected result would just be a formality and the Remain side would win hands down ! Ooops ! wrong result !! I also do not recall that the referendum was to be broken down into which way the various regions voted either.
But because the stupid Leave voters won the Remainers have decided to through every spanner they can find into the “works” to try and overturn a perfectly democratic ,clear, result. I wonder if we would have had the same carry on if the vote had gone the way “The Establishment” expected ? I doubt it ! And all this bollox about a so called “confirmatory” is just a disguised ploy by The Losers to try and get the Remain vote to win ! I note that all those individuals that are clamouring for another referendum are exclusively “Loser Remainers” how strange ! Bewick.
Buzzer:
Hey up mate you should not worry too much about imports of inferior food as 50% of the population eat crap food here day in day out and the sad thing is they would not even relish a meat and three veg dinner, sad but they say its because they are too busy to bother to cook properly as they do not have the time but then spend a couple of hours on a screen of some sort whiling away there lives.
As for broiler production the old ckook houses in the UK are pretty crowded here in this country as well, all in the name of cheap super market prices, Buzzer.
Second point first, if I can: if you feel that chickens are badly treated here, or at least should be better treated, then would you not agree that any lowering of standards must be bad?
So, importing ever cheaper chicken meat is bad. After all, high standards with less overcrowding carries a cost.
Import cheap food and what will happen to our own farmers? Can they produce high welfare, high quality, meat if they compete against cheap imports?
Your first point, I agree that many people, although they do have a choice, dont eat well. Giving them the choice of even worse quality food wont do them or anyone any favours will it? I appreciate that you dont like too much government interference, but unfortunately we need regs to stop people buying crap food from unscrupulous producers. Education is a big help, but it seems some still havent got the message about healthy eating.
Many talk about liking higher welfare product with less fertiliser inputs, but end up buying on price alone. Cheaper food isnt an "open and shut" good thing, wouldnt you agree?
Bewick:
Please forgive my ignorance and stupidity but my understanding of when Cameron announced we were going have a UK wide referendum he followed it up by saying it was going to be a once in a lifetime vote no if’s and no buts and the result would be respected and if it was a Leave win that would be honoured and we would leave the EU. Cameron also believed that the expected result would just be a formality and the Remain side would win hands down ! Ooops ! wrong result !! I also do not recall that the referendum was to be broken down into which way the various regions voted either.
But because the stupid Leave voters won the Remainers have decided to through every spanner they can find into the “works” to try and overturn a perfectly democratic ,clear, result. I wonder if we would have had the same carry on if the vote had gone the way “The Establishment” expected ? I doubt it ! And all this bollox about a so called “confirmatory” is just a disguised ploy by The Losers to try and get the Remain vote to win ! I note that all those individuals that are clamouring for another referendum are exclusively “Loser Remainers” how strange ! Bewick.
When we vote for a political party in the General Elections we vote on a published manifesto. We vote on what those parties promise to deliver. If they dont deliver on those promises we get the opportunity to vote them out again. At the referendum the official leave campaign promised: easily negotiable trade deals, £350m cash, sunshine and happiness for all, etc etc. Well , we voted leave, and have not seen the slightest trace of any of those promises. We can now see just how hollow and imaginary most of them were. We know Cameron better now, and wouldnt trust him again, but why trust the likes of Davies, Johnston and Gove?
There isnt a right/wrong option here, there isnt a simple fix to our current problems, but seems to me that leaving the EU, is even worse than staying.
Sticking by a mistaken choice is not being determined, brave and hardy.
It`s cutting off your nose to spite your face, and looks like being unable to accept being human, and admit to making errors.
Bewick:
Please forgive my ignorance and stupidity …
Whoa Bewick, that is a really big ask. Try saying something sensible to make it easier for us. Like explaining how crap American is so much better than less crap European or British, or explaining to Ramone that buying a Volvo in England that was made in China by a Swedish company using bits added from everywhere, is keeping the money in England, or buying any car at all in England…isn’t English. Apart from Morgan of course…oops, no longer, even they are Italian now. (EU very very bad )
Buzzer:
Hey up mate you should not worry too much about imports of inferior food as 50% of the population eat crap food here day in day out and the sad thing is they would not even relish a meat and three veg dinner, sad but they say its because they are too busy to bother to cook properly as they do not have the time but then spend a couple of hours on a screen of some sort whiling away there lives.
As for broiler production the old ckook houses in the UK are pretty crowded here in this country as well, all in the name of cheap super market prices, Buzzer.
Second point first, if I can: if you feel that chickens are badly treated here, or at least should be better treated, then would you not agree that any lowering of standards must be bad?
So, importing ever cheaper chicken meat is bad. After all, high standards with less overcrowding carries a cost.
Import cheap food and what will happen to our own farmers? Can they produce high welfare, high quality, meat if they compete against cheap imports?
Your first point, I agree that many people, although they do have a choice, dont eat well. Giving them the choice of even worse quality food wont do them or anyone any favours will it? I appreciate that you dont like too much government interference, but unfortunately we need regs to stop people buying crap food from unscrupulous producers. Education is a big help, but it seems some still havent got the message about healthy eating.
Many talk about liking higher welfare product with less fertiliser inputs, but end up buying on price alone. Cheaper food isnt an "open and shut" good thing, wouldnt you agree?
With respect the satndards in the UK for animal welfare are second to none as the regulations set out within the EU are observed rigorously which cannot be said of all the remainder of EU members. Here in the UK we enforce European rules to the letter and in alot of cases the rest do not. Having a few farming interests of my own albiet it on a very small scale i definitely do not agrre with farming subsidies at all, you dont find subsidies being handed out to lets say the transport industry or builders so why farmers. The main problem is that European farmers could not exist with out these handouts especially the French and here alot of that money is going into the pockets of high flying buisness companies who have bought up massive land banks and then subcontract the buisness of managing that land to contractors who never see a penny of the dosh, corrupt it is but nothing is done to stop the practice.
As for crap food i mean things like chicken nuggets which lots of kids are fed with, if they knew what they were made with they probably would not go near it, plus all the pre made ready meals which are not cheap at all, some as much as 8 quid a throw just there for convenience . We wont change peoples eating habits in an instant and if kids are reared on chicken nuggets they will never know any different alot of which is the fault of the parents. When all said and done there is nought like a home cooked roast and its not rocket science to produce, society has changed and instead of the housewife being just that and staying at home cooking and cleaning she now has a part time job to make ends meet so really its all to do with financial constraints, but alot still smoke at over a tenner a packet rather than spend it on quality food, Buzzer
Buzzer:
As for crap food i mean things like chicken nuggets which lots of kids are fed with, if they knew what they were made with they probably would not go near it, plus all the pre made ready meals which are not cheap at all, some as much as 8 quid a throw just there for convenience . We wont change peoples eating habits in an instant and if kids are reared on chicken nuggets they will never know any different alot of which is the fault of the parents. When all said and done there is nought like a home cooked roast and its not rocket science to produce, society has changed and instead of the housewife being just that and staying at home cooking and cleaning she now has a part time job to make ends meet so really its all to do with financial constraints, but alot still smoke at over a tenner a packet rather than spend it on quality food, Buzzer
You`re making some good points there.
Buzzer:
With respect the satndards in the UK for animal welfare are second to none as the regulations set out within the EU are observed rigorously which cannot be said of all the remainder of EU members. Here in the UK we enforce European rules to the letter and in alot of cases the rest do not. Having a few farming interests of my own albiet it on a very small scale i definitely do not agrre with farming subsidies at all, you dont find subsidies being handed out to lets say the transport industry or builders so why farmers. The main problem is that European farmers could not exist with out these handouts especially the French and here alot of that money is going into the pockets of high flying buisness companies who have bought up massive land banks and then subcontract the buisness of managing that land to contractors who never see a penny of the dosh, corrupt it is but nothing is done to stop the practice.
Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. UK standards are high and are correctly enforced.
As members of the EU we can complain to the EU if we see other countries in the EU breaking rules and undercutting us by using lesser standards. If we were to set deals with the US, Woody has made ot quite clear they would want to sell their lower welfare meat products to us, and have us accept their (lower) standards as part of trade deals. We wouldn`t have much say in how the US raise their cattle/chickens etc, would we?
Is the EU agricultural subsidy policy flawed? Again yes, I agree with you.
But what are we offered when we leave the EU? We have Gove ft.com/content/db2a28e2-c17 … 6dfef1b89a
saying he would subsidise farmers, not to produce food, but to get cleaner water, and environmental benefits. He wants lower productivity at the same time as we possibly get dearer food from the EU! His plan is to give subsidies to all those who can afford to buy lots of land, and not bother to farm it.
And we, at the same time, have Rees-Mogg talking of our opportunity to get cheaper food from further afield. With our own farmers undercut in food production, what will happen to our (listen up CF) balance of payments? Our farmers wont be able to compete with lower standard US or African produced foods. We have a Brexit "plan" that involves the raising of good food prices, form the EU and the destruction of any domestic production. It is pure insanity! Again, I do agree with you that the CAP is flawed, but the "Brexit plan" is NOT a cure for it. We are better off trying to get even better standards and enforcement within the EU, rather than giving up, and saying thats too difficult. We really do stand a better chance of that, rather than trying to change standards in the US.
Carryfast:
Oh look Soviet Socialists suddenly hate Federalism if/when the President goes off message and doesn’t agree with the Stalinist version.
Meanwhile look on the bright side if he was the real deal the US constitution would have been changed back to a Confederation of Sovereign States by now.Then your lot can all live in California and Texans can get their country back to be ruled by Texas for example.
In your “real deal” does an elected President get the right to rewrite the constitution?
Doesn`t say much for your self-professed democratic wishes does it?
Carryfast:
As for importing BMW and Mercs great for those who aren’t lumbered with the austerity needed to pay for the resulting trade deficit black hole.But if Juncker and Blair says it’s good for us it must be true.
You tell us how we can all afford to buy Jags and you`ll get my vote, mate.
Carryfast:
You mean your idea of ‘democracy’ being a gerrymandered foreign mandate imposed across whole continents.Just so long as it agrees with your own views.As for a lofty ideal yeah right an ideal which Stalin among other tin pot megalomaniacs from Lincoln to Tito ran with.Son of a ■■■■ Juncker being the latest
Gerrymandering?
You, who I believe to be a fan of Trump, and call yourself a democrat, mention this?
As a reminder in the 2016 US Presidential elections,
Trump. 62,984,828 votes.
Clinton. 65,853,514 votes.
Now, Trump didnt set any boundaries, or set up the system of electoral colleges the US uses, but before the result he was very mealy mouthed about his respect for that system. He was happy when he benefited from it however. I think youd be better off considering the present flawed system extant, rather than referring to last century`s mistakes.
Bewick:
Please forgive my ignorance and stupidity but my understanding of when Cameron announced we were going have a UK wide referendum he followed it up by saying it was going to be a once in a lifetime vote no if’s and no buts and the result would be respected and if it was a Leave win that would be honoured and we would leave the EU. Cameron also believed that the expected result would just be a formality and the Remain side would win hands down ! Ooops ! wrong result !! I also do not recall that the referendum was to be broken down into which way the various regions voted either.
But because the stupid Leave voters won the Remainers have decided to through every spanner they can find into the “works” to try and overturn a perfectly democratic ,clear, result. I wonder if we would have had the same carry on if the vote had gone the way “The Establishment” expected ? I doubt it ! And all this bollox about a so called “confirmatory” is just a disguised ploy by The Losers to try and get the Remain vote to win ! I note that all those individuals that are clamouring for another referendum are exclusively “Loser Remainers” how strange ! Bewick.
To be fair Bewick anyone who thinks that it’s actually ok to vote the country out of existence and into EU vassalage is part of the problem.While any patriot worthy of the name should view it as a duty to carry on the fight even if Cameron’s rigged vote had actually worked as obviously intended for the Federalist scumbags.Make no mistake maintaining the country’s sovereignty against a Federalist Soviet type plan to hijack Europe shouldn’t be up for discussion let alone vote and it’s why this argument won’t be settled by talking with these Federalist zb’s.History suggests it’ll more likely have to end up in a proper fight against these Soviet style nutters sooner or later.While unfortunately it’ll probably be future generations who’ll have to do it and/or probably have to die in the course of trying together with their misguided enemies.Just as their counterparts have had to do from Gettysburg in 1863 to Slovenia in 1991 not forgetting my Great Uncle in early 1900’s Ireland.
Carryfast:
Oh look Soviet Socialists suddenly hate Federalism if/when the President goes off message and doesn’t agree with the Stalinist version.
Meanwhile look on the bright side if he was the real deal the US constitution would have been changed back to a Confederation of Sovereign States by now.Then your lot can all live in California and Texans can get their country back to be ruled by Texas for example.
In your “real deal” does an elected President get the right to rewrite the constitution?
Doesn`t say much for your self-professed democratic wishes does it?
Carryfast:
As for importing BMW and Mercs great for those who aren’t lumbered with the austerity needed to pay for the resulting trade deficit black hole.But if Juncker and Blair says it’s good for us it must be true.
You tell us how we can all afford to buy Jags and you`ll get my vote, mate.
Carryfast:
You mean your idea of ‘democracy’ being a gerrymandered foreign mandate imposed across whole continents.Just so long as it agrees with your own views.As for a lofty ideal yeah right an ideal which Stalin among other tin pot megalomaniacs from Lincoln to Tito ran with.Son of a ■■■■ Juncker being the latest
Gerrymandering?
You, who I believe to be a fan of Trump, and call yourself a democrat, mention this?
As a reminder in the 2016 US Presidential elections,
Trump. 62,984,828 votes.
Clinton. 65,853,514 votes.
Now, Trump didnt set any boundaries, or set up the system of electoral colleges the US uses, but before the result he was very mealy mouthed about his respect for that system. He was happy when he benefited from it however. I think youd be better off considering the present flawed system extant, rather than referring to last century`s mistakes.
Gerrymandering yes you know like the higher electorate of California being able to out vote the electorate of Texas to decide what happens in Texas.
No I’m not a fan of Trump which part of ‘the real deal’ didn’t you understand.As I said if he was the real deal the individual State legislatures would obviously have supremacy over him and congress having provided them with that right and signed himself out of office.While we’d be out of the EU because by now he would also have derecognised UK EU member status and the stinking EU’s right to exist anyway on the same basis.
As for BMW and Merc v Jag you’re the one saying that it’s better to go on importing the former in massive numbers to the point of trashing our own economy.
Carryfast:
Gerrymandering yes you know like the higher electorate of California being able to out vote the electorate of Texas to decide what happens in Texas.
No I’m not a fan of Trump which part of ‘the real deal’ didn’t you understand.As I said if he was the real deal the individual State legislatures would obviously have supremacy over him and congress having provided them with that right and signed himself out of office.While we’d be out of the EU because by now he would also have derecognised UK EU member status and the stinking EU’s right to exist anyway on the same basis.
As for BMW and Merc v Jag you’re the one saying that it’s better to go on importing the former in massive numbers to the point of trashing our own economy
Firstly I apologise for thinking you were a Trump fan.
Gerrymandering concerns boundaries and elections, not the votes of 39m people counting for more than the votes of 28m people. That is the way our democracies work, far from perfect, but there we go.
No where have I said Im happy about our declining manufacturing and industrial base. Years of under investment by industry and flawed gov policy by all parties has been bad for us, of course. Putting taxes on EU cars in a trade war with our biggest trade partners, as you have often suggested, will not fix anything. Youre right we have a problem with our balance of payments, getting what we do export heavily taxed by our customers, and getting our financial services industries disadvantaged by refusing to use our customers legal systems will not benefit us at all.
You`re pointing out problems that exist, yes, but your solutions would only exacerbate the issues, not solve them.
dexxy57:
Probably the funniest thing you’ve written. English arrogance at its finest.
You think so? Wait till you hear his examples.
This from the plastic EU Kilt wearing Scotsman and the dog walking pensioner sponging from England and spending in France ffs what a pair of ….
Ah ha!, our well known prop of the Sino-Swedish economy pops up. Perhaps he will explain now how a person can sponge from his own, hard won and slaved for, pension pot?
dexxy57:
Probably the funniest thing you’ve written. English arrogance at its finest.
You think so? Wait till you hear his examples.
This from the plastic EU Kilt wearing Scotsman and the dog walking pensioner sponging from England and spending in France ffs what a pair of ….
Ah ha!, our well known prop of the Sino-Swedish economy pops up. Perhaps he will explain now how a person can sponge from his own, hard won and slaved for, pension pot?
The problem with you Spardo and your plastic adopted scotsman friend is you like to twist everything around that people post google to get info and patronise and belittle people.
ramone:
The problem with you Spardo and your plastic adopted scotsman friend is you like to twist everything around that people post google to get info and patronise and belittle people.
Oh you do yourself no justice Ramone, the belittling is all your own work.
ramone:
The problem with you Spardo and your plastic adopted scotsman friend is you like to twist everything around that people post google to get info and patronise and belittle people.
Oh you do yourself no justice Ramone, the belittling is all your own work.
Look back at your posts twisting what ive posted insinuating im a junkie and a racist its all there but when you get some back you dont like it. You seem to think that Britain cant stand on its own 2 feet without Europe even though you put zero into your homeland just take out. Well if the EU worked as it is supposed to France should be supporting you just like we have to support all the EU migrants we have to let in with no say
ramone:
The problem with you Spardo and your plastic adopted scotsman friend is you like to twist everything around that people post google to get info and patronise and belittle people.
Oh you do yourself no justice Ramone, the belittling is all your own work.
Look back at your posts twisting what ive posted insinuating im a junkie and a racist its all there but when you get some back you dont like it. You seem to think that Britain cant stand on its own 2 feet without Europe even though you put zero into your homeland just take out. Well if the EU worked as it is supposed to France should be supporting you just like we have to support all the EU migrants we have to let in with no say
ramone:
This from the plastic EU Kilt wearing Scotsman and the dog walking pensioner sponging from England and spending in France ffs what a pair of ….
Plastic Scotsman? Nice one. What’s all that about?
I wore a kilt at my wedding, in fact I wore a kilt at both my weddings. Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it Johnny. Seriously, it’s a good feeling. Only downside is fighting off the women . . . ‘Oooh, there’s George Clooney, and he’s wearing a kilt’. . . We all have our cross to bear I suppose. Handsome, irresistible and not a Gammon . . . it’s a curse, not a blessing. But I suppose I can live with it.
As for Spardo spongeing off the state . . . you don’t really understand how pensions work, do you?
ramone:
The problem with you Spardo and your plastic adopted scotsman friend is you like to twist everything around that people post google to get info and patronise and belittle people.
Oh you do yourself no justice Ramone, the belittling is all your own work.
Look back at your posts twisting what ive posted insinuating im a junkie and a racist its all there but when you get some back you dont like it. You seem to think that Britain cant stand on its own 2 feet without Europe even though you put zero into your homeland just take out. Well if the EU worked as it is supposed to France should be supporting you just like we have to support all the EU migrants we have to let in with no say
Priceless.
Aye, 300 euros a week, each, just for being here, just for turning up on the beach at Ramsgate.
(Well, at least that what your pal Buzzer says is happening).
Carryfast:
Gerrymandering yes you know like the higher electorate of California being able to out vote the electorate of Texas to decide what happens in Texas.
No I’m not a fan of Trump which part of ‘the real deal’ didn’t you understand.As I said if he was the real deal the individual State legislatures would obviously have supremacy over him and congress having provided them with that right and signed himself out of office.While we’d be out of the EU because by now he would also have derecognised UK EU member status and the stinking EU’s right to exist anyway on the same basis.
As for BMW and Merc v Jag you’re the one saying that it’s better to go on importing the former in massive numbers to the point of trashing our own economy
Firstly I apologise for thinking you were a Trump fan.
Gerrymandering concerns boundaries and elections, not the votes of 39m people counting for more than the votes of 28m people. That is the way our democracies work, far from perfect, but there we go.
No where have I said Im happy about our declining manufacturing and industrial base. Years of under investment by industry and flawed gov policy by all parties has been bad for us, of course. Putting taxes on EU cars in a trade war with our biggest trade partners, as you have often suggested, will not fix anything. Youre right we have a problem with our balance of payments, getting what we do export heavily taxed by our customers, and getting our financial services industries disadvantaged by refusing to use our customers legal systems will not benefit us at all.
You`re pointing out problems that exist, yes, but your solutions would only exacerbate the issues, not solve them.
Yes boundaries being used to rig elections.You know like the electorate of California ignoring the California state line/boundary thereby imposing an invalid foreign mandate to decide what happens in Texas.Just like the electorate of France and Germany ignoring Europe’s national borders to decide what happens in Italy or UK or Greece and vice versa.
As for the single market.Which part of we ‘are’ in a massive trade deficit situation within it which can only be helped by us leaving it to the advantage of UK manufacturers,don’t you ( want ) to understand.IE they hit our fewer exports to them while we hit their greater exports to us thereby creating a net advantage to UK manufacturers to take over the higher amount of import sales in the domestic market.
Apart from Morgan of course…oops, no longer, even they are Italian now. (EU very very bad 
) 
