Carryfast:
Like exactly how much money Buzzer ?.Ironically it’s those with your ideas who are creating the conditions for those who want to hand the country over to a foreign power.In the hope that letting it go can’t possibly be any worse than your obvious intentions of turning the place into a forced labour Victorian sweat shop.Although ironically you must have missed the bit where the EU let Thatcher destroy Brit workers’ rights including the right to strike and in which 15 hour shifts at £8 per hour is considered a good deal.On that note for some reason don’t see many Germans or French wanting to come here to work in your gulag but plenty of East Euros who obviously see it as a better bet than their own version of hell at home.
You aint in the real world are you CF, if they did not get paid good money they sure as hell would not do the job, its a fact that because our lazy compatriots are not interested in any manual labour such as veg or fruit picking this because the Government has made it too easy for them not to bother.
While we are at it why is it that you pick holes in almost every post on here no matter what it is about, makes one wonder that if you are so dam clever why the hell you do not hold a high flying job paying millions. Most people who post on here are just expressing an opinion, alright not every one agrees with each other but it would be pretty boring if we all had the same views would it not.
As it is just what high roller position do you hold or have held maybe this will throw some light on your utter brilliance on all subjects for the rest of us minions, Buzzer.
Not exactly an answer the question ‘exactly how much money’ ?.Meanwhile there’s not much point in us all standing together for ‘our country’ when we’ve got one bunch of so called ‘patriots’ calling others ‘lazy’.On that note yes we know that ‘they’ are doing the job but the definition of ‘they’ ain’t exactly German or Swiss farm workers coming here to set up a new life,including affording to buy a house and raise a family with equivalent health care provision as at home, because the wages and quality of life are as good let alone better than at home.As opposed to East Europeans living in ‘mobile homes’ on a group basis because the UK minimum wage and top up benefits looks good when it’s sent home to support their families left behind in otherwise even worse Slavic purgatory.
While we’ve seen the logical conclusion of your Tory bollox in action and the result was …Thatcher.Both supporting our membership of the EU and closing down British industry all partly based on the excuse that German workers are better,work harder and are less militant and East Euro farm workers are unsurprisingly happy to work under your Victorian work ethic because it’s relatively better than the remnants of the Stalinist crap hole they’ve got at home.Well done who needs enemies like Corbyn’s rabble to take out Brexit when we’ve got deluded Thatcherites like you scaring the population into the arms of bleedin Juncker and co.Let alone because the population in question thinks wrongly that Thatcher was on the side of Brexit thereby erroneously tarring decent patriots with your Thatcherite Brit workers are no good brush to the point where they’d rather vote for bleedin Corbyn’s rabble.Make no mistake there’s not much point in voting for Brexit if we just end up with Tebbit’s and Maggie’s version of hell instead of Juncker’s.
Hey CF. A patriot who calls someone lazy is still a patriot you idiot.
Spardo:
Not sure who’s living high in la la land, Neither Franglais or Dexxy live here and I certainly aren’t, what with a 20% drop in pensions value.
Not sure why anybody should think that the French don’t want to work in England when it is now official that London is the 5th or 6th largest French city by population.
But hey, why bother with facts when they might ruin a good rant.
Par for the course on here. Why bother with facts?
Those who are eligible for unemployment benefit get up to £73 a week. Daresay other benefits may be available, but I doubt its exactly enough to finance the yachts and champagne lifestyle alleged by some "newspapers"? Fruit picking (seasonal) work being offered at £8-21 per hr. Again, not a massive amount. Maybe better is out there? Hardly worth making it a worthwhile career choice. If only foreign workers find those wages attractive then clearly that great god called "the market economy" dictates that the pay should be increased? Having itinerant workers who could be paid "on the black economy", sometimes with no taxes or NI deductions, and who conveniently disappeared again at seasons end, may have been the norm once, but it isn`t the way for a civilized country to behave in my opinion.
Great so we’re agreed that free market economics are the problem not the solution.Which makes the EU single market,including labour market and the EU’s open door trade policy with China, good how ?.
As opposed to a Confedral Europe which gives every state the right to close the door on cheap East Euro imports and labour,including under cutting of the transport market and the right to balance trade figures by way of national trade barriers as required in the national interest.In addition to the right to decide our own non EU trade policies unilaterally again in our own respective national interests.
Now awaits the same old remainer bs that we can only have a race to the bottom Tory Brexit as opposed to a real Labour anti free markets ( read Hoey and Benn and Shore before her ) one.The point being that first we have to have Brexit before we can go for the latter or for that matter make the change to a Confedral Europe.At which point we obviously run head on into free markets corporate US Federal government,as opposed to anti free markets Confedral US electorate,policy.
I don’t think you get the idea of being in a club.
I find it pretty amazing that,considering the mess that is Brexit,whomever dictates these things over there,are allowing politicians to take an Easter break!Might not be a whole lot,but in the context of a 6 month time frame,it is a considerable percentage.Then there`s the summer recess!
I would have thought SOMEBODY may have said,here lads,lets work through and get this ■■■■ sorted!
But then again…
whiplash:
I find it pretty amazing that,considering the mess that is Brexit,whomever dictates these things over there,are allowing politicians to take an Easter break!Might not be a whole lot,but in the context of a 6 month time frame,it is a considerable percentage.Then there`s the summer recess!
I would have thought SOMEBODY may have said,here lads,lets work through and get this [zb] sorted!
But then again…
On the other hand maybe someone has realised that there is as much chance of getting them all to agree as there is Buzzer and I. If we gave up our holidays ( ) to ‘work right through’ we still wouldn’t come up with a compromise.
So, in that case, the best way is not a new Ref but a GE. Then you might get an entirely different set and balance for something to shift. Who knows, maybe Nigel and his new party, or UKIP reborn, or even a Remainer pact might win. It isn’t unknown for parties/people to come from nowhere and rise to the top. The best examples are Macron in France or Paisley in NI, where the UUP always used to hold sway till he broke away.
Buzzer:
Franglais bet you wont find a farmer in the UK that pays crap money for picking there produce that is simply not the case
Well said John,
Dont forget the HOP pickers from London who made it there yearly holiday
Harvey
But that was in the last century. Ahh, those rose tinted glasses again…
So true.
“The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.” hoppingdowninkent.org.uk/payment.php londonsroyaldocks.com/forgo … elds-kent/
We tend to remember the sunny days, not the grey ones. That`s normal, but any who confuse memories with reality, and think the future is shaped by wishful thinking* are sadly mistaken.
*or politician`s promises!
edit to add.
I had some good times driving an old Atki with no power steering and no sleeper.
I too have some good memories of Euro work with “dodgy” permits, TIR park clearances, and running silly hours.
But I wouldnt want a return to those days, let em stay as fond memories rather than kid ourselves we can return to that “foreign country”.
whiplash:
I find it pretty amazing that,considering the mess that is Brexit,whomever dictates these things over there,are allowing politicians to take an Easter break!Might not be a whole lot,but in the context of a 6 month time frame,it is a considerable percentage.Then there`s the summer recess!
I would have thought SOMEBODY may have said,here lads,lets work through and get this [zb] sorted!
But then again…
I think it’s because the course of action has already been decided as the patronisingly titled “people’s vote” as if actual people didn’t vote in the original referendum, the British MEP vote will come before that, though it could be interesting if Mr Farage and his newly launched Brexit party trounce all the others…
Guys this Brexit was a massive lie from day 1. Something organised by the conservatives in order to save their party.
We don’t need brexit, especially in the haulage industry.
It is a massive headache and I want the whole thing completely called off.
I would vote remain if there was a second referendum.
And by the way Farage gave his sons German passports just to be safe.
This brexit party is another con
Carryfast:
As opposed to a Confedral Europe which gives every state the right to close the door on cheap East Euro imports and labour,including under cutting of the transport market and the right to balance trade figures by way of national trade barriers as required in the national interest.In addition to the right to decide our own non EU trade policies unilaterally again in our own respective national interests.
I don’t think you get the idea of being in a club.
Here’s a clue the definition of national sovereignty ain’t the same thing as,nor compatible with,the analogy of joining a club.
Tempest:
Guys this Brexit was a massive lie from day 1. Something organised by the conservatives in order to save their party.
We don’t need brexit, especially in the haulage industry.
It is a massive headache and I want the whole thing completely called off.
I would vote remain if there was a second referendum.
And by the way Farage gave his sons German passports just to be safe.
This brexit party is another con
Welcome to the sane side of the asylum Tempest, you’re are right in every respect in your post.
Tempest:
Guys this Brexit was a massive lie from day 1. Something organised by the conservatives in order to save their party.
We don’t need brexit, especially in the haulage industry.
It is a massive headache and I want the whole thing completely called off.
I would vote remain if there was a second referendum.
And by the way Farage gave his sons German passports just to be safe.
This brexit party is another con
Welcome to the sane side of the aylum Tempest, you’re are right in every respect in your post. [/quo
Hell no its the four Amigo’s now, what chance I got now ha ha ! Buzzer
“And by the way Farage gave his sons German passports just to be safe”.
Farage’s wife Kirsten Mehr mother of two of his children is a German national.
Oily
Buzzer:
Franglais bet you wont find a farmer in the UK that pays crap money for picking there produce that is simply not the case and I think in most cases there workers are paid good money for what they do, the reason that foreign labour does this work is they have a completely different work ethic to any indigenous UK residents who quite simply are too lazy and get paid vast amounts of cash to stay in bed and do nought, sorry to say you cannot blame them either it is the system that needs radical intervention
Like exactly how much money Buzzer ?.Ironically it’s those with your ideas who are creating the conditions for those who want to hand the country over to a foreign power.In the hope that letting it go can’t possibly be any worse than your obvious intentions of turning the place into a forced labour Victorian sweat shop.Although ironically you must have missed the bit where the EU let Thatcher destroy Brit workers’ rights including the right to strike and in which 15 hour shifts at £8 per hour is considered a good deal.On that note for some reason don’t see many Germans or French wanting to come here to work in your gulag but plenty of East Euros who obviously see it as a better bet than their own version of hell at home.
I live in what was once the Garden of England, I had relatives in what was Huntingdonshire who were what is referred to as small growers. I have had fairly close involvement with fruit packing for most of my life. I and many members of my family have worked both in the fields and in the packhouse. The allegation that local people are too lazy is spouted about because it suits agribusiness, throw enough mud and it sticks. It would be far more accurate to say that the locals have been manoeuvered out of the picture and priced out of the market. It is far more convenient to have a captive workforce depenendent on the employer providing ‘accomodation’. I’ve been to planning meetings, Judicial reviews and HM Inspector’s enquiries. I’ve heard the manipulated ‘truth’ put forward at these official hearings. I’ve seen the shenanigans that go on to get Home Office permits for foreign workers. Back in the day, yes growers did pay a decent rate for the job, but things have changed. The big packhouses manage to get their industrial building erected on agricultural land using the excuse that their massive packhouse offers local small farmers an access to the supermarkets. That is fine, but only applies to the short UK growing season.The small grower finds that he still has to send a substantial part of his crop to market, because not all of it meets size specifications. But the packhouse got built on the back of supporting his business. The rest of the time these packhouses are importing fruit from mainly southern, Europe and relying on air freight from further afield.
So who is working in these packhouses? well if you hear English spoken normally, you are going to be very lucky. Where are these workers living? Some do settle down, but most are short term caravan dwellers hidden up in woods on the farm so that they cannot be seen from the road or the air. On site captive workers who can be called upon to work until 3 am have replaced the former housewives who worked school hours and brought their kids along in the holidays. Nowadays they don’t get a look in, even the ones who are quite happy to come back in the evening for a few hours, they are no longer ‘flexible enough’. One thing has stayed the same at least in principle if not scale. The old bus one would see making it way around the various estates picking up workers has gone, to be replaced by literally fleets of knackered old coaches and buses taking foreign workers from their caravans on one of the Agribusiness’ farms to another where they are required for the day.
Good bit of content there cav551 nothing like being involved to see the real truth, on that not I did see a documentary on El Ejido in Spain where North African workers are working in atrocious conditions and there living quarters were beyond belief and far worse than here and this all with the full knowledge of the big supermarkets who buy from these producers and do not care so long as the price is right, Buzzer
Tempest:
Guys this Brexit was a massive lie from day 1. Something organised by the conservatives in order to save their party.
We don’t need brexit, especially in the haulage industry.
It is a massive headache and I want the whole thing completely called off.
I would vote remain if there was a second referendum.
And by the way Farage gave his sons German passports just to be safe.
This brexit party is another con
Welcome to the sane side of the asylum Tempest, you’re are right in every respect in your post.
If the Conservatives were supposedly on only in it to save their party.Firstly Heath taking us into it.Then chucking out Powell,followed by a string of pro EU leaders from Thatcher to May and the fact that we are still in the EU 3 years after remainer Cameron’s bs non binding ‘referendum’,all says otherwise.
As for the haulage industry doesn’t need Brexit.Oh wait over worked knackered drivers running around with 6 hours sleep as part of 15 hour shifts and third country East Euro rate cutting having decimated uk based international operations and cabotage having the potential to do the same to domestic ones,is so much better.Except of course for the domestic employers we’ve got left taking advantage of the downward pressure on wages created by the race to the bottom ‘single’ labour market allowing the import of the lowest bidder to do the job.
Yes we know the Brexit Party is a massive Con set up by controlled opposition remainer Thatcher admirer Farage to split the Leave vote assuming the next election vote rigging scam doesn’t work like the referendum one didn’t.On that note forget Farage it’s Batten who is the real deal.But who like Powell,Benn and Shore before him and Hoey now won’t be allowed anywhere near power by your evil EU establishment agenda.
Buzzer:
Good bit of content there cav551 nothing like being involved to see the real truth, Buzzer
You did read the bit saying that indigenous farm workers have been ‘priced’ ( under cut ) out of the labour market not that they are or ever were too lazy to do the job ?.On that note as I said not many hard working Swiss,Austrian,German or French farm workers coming here to set up a new life with their families,including the ability to afford a decent house to live in,German/Swiss type health care expectations and a decent pension at a decent retirement age on the wage.
Who would have thought it.The wonderful EU utopia that Franglais et al are pushing is actually nothing but a race to the bottom free markets scam in this case the single labour market.While if they’ve got anything right it’s that replacing it with more race to the bottom economics,in the form of a return to the Victorian work ethic,is as bad if not even worse.
The remainer lie being that is supposedly the only option on the table when we’ve got our right to govern ourselves back based on our own national mandate.Hopefully also free of continental type vote rigging scams including typically keep voting until you get the right answer.IE vote Hoey’s Labour,not Blair’s or Starmer’s,get Labour.
For CF.
I’ve never said the EU is an ideal and perfect institution. It has problems.
But the Brexit we are looking at is NOT a fix to those problems.
Give has already made a speech to farmers saying that we can overcome the problems of farm labour by using, not expensive Polish etc but non EU Ukranians and Vietnamese.
ReesMogg has said we can all be happy when we can import food free of EU tariffs from the US and Africa etc. How will our farmers compete then? It won’t be with sustainable agricultural methods and fair pay to workers.
The Brexit we’re looking at is for a small number of well off people to get a bigger share of a smaller pie. Most of us will be worse off in the longer term.
And again mention of unfair continental democratic practices, when we can see a much bigger representation of UKIP in the EU parliament than the UK one because of their proportional representation system.
It is not only Farage, al lot of ardent Brexiteers have moved their businesses abroad in order to save their ar*se. Rees Mogg, Dyson just to mention the most famous.
The first thing that arch Brexiteers wanna do is scrap the 48 hours avarage working hours rule within the 17 weeks so we are gonna have less working rights not more.
There is not one study that says that Brexit is gonna be good for the economy.
And you know what if we go into recession there will be less money for everyone. In order to sign new free trade agreements countries like India will ask to ease the visa process for its people.
And you know what due to drivers shortage I bet whatever you want that it will be very easy to come here if you are a truck driver.
If you think that is hard competing with an eastern European good luck when you will have to compete with a Chinese or a Bangladeshi ,Indian. (with no offence)
The UK will be a small country among beasts with limited negotiation power.
