Eu referendum whats your vote

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
3201

Spardo:

ramone:
So 4 million people have signed a petition to have a second vote ,

Not true, the petition is to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU, not for another referendum.

Otherwise I would have not put my name to it as I don’t want another one. The one which caused all this mess was fraudulent and there is no point in doing it all again.

Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

The correct way to leave the EU is by a free vote in Parliament, that is what MPs are elected to do. Therefore the correct way to revoque a fraudulent decision is by a free vote in Parliament.

And before someone says that most MPs were elected on a party manifesto I will say this. Prospective MPs almost always need to join one party or another in the UK system and stand on that party’s manifesto at election. It is always dishonest because they can’t possibly believe in every little aspect of it, but they have to lump it if they want to get in. Once in there they often defy the whips on a point of principle, so why should this, the most important decision of all except to go to war, be any different?

Like i said democracy is dead

3202

Spardo:
Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

Would you like to:

A) Remain in the European Union
B) Leave the European Union

I’m not sure how it could have been framed any clearer, or how this is fraud.

3203

This country is run by schoolyard politics- if it doesn’t go as panned throw the teddy in the corner. It’s about time the moaning remainers got a grip of themselves give their heads wobble or two and checked the meaning of the word democracy .
Every G.E. the losing voters could ask for another vote because they believe the winning Party lied to their members ( which they do all the time ).
If the eu means so much to you the door is still open for you into Europe.

3204

ezydriver:

Spardo:
Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

Would you like to:

A) Remain in the European Union
B) Leave the European Union

I’m not sure how it could have been framed any clearer, or how this is fraud.

Because, and this is why I disapprove of referendums unless they are run correctly as in Switzerland, an either or question like that does not convey the true implications of the decision. It is obvious from all the uproar in this thread and elsewhere that no-one fully understood all that had to be done to achieve an exit.

It was not democratic because not all citizens were allowed to vote.

Both campaigns were completely misleading to say the least and one, Leave, broke election law on more than one count.

3205

Spardo:

ezydriver:

Spardo:
Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

Would you like to:

A) Remain in the European Union
B) Leave the European Union

I’m not sure how it could have been framed any clearer, or how this is fraud.

Because, and this is why I disapprove of referendums unless they are run correctly as in Switzerland, an either or question like that does not convey the true implications of the decision. It is obvious from all the uproar in this thread and elsewhere that no-one fully understood all that had to be done to achieve an exit.

It was not democratic because not all citizens were allowed to vote.

Both campaigns were completely misleading to say the least and one, Leave, broke election law on more than one count.

@Spardo
As my dear old gran would say “utter poppycock” I’d repeat what my grandad would say but I think the mods would throw a fit.
It was a plain and simple Stay or Leave vote, as for blaming the leave camp for being illegal, the remain were no better and still aren’t, the scaremongering etc.
It’s called democracy and no matter how much you spit your dummy out it won’t change, we get lied to every general election, is it democratic to appeal against the decision made by a democratic vote?

3206

ezydriver:

Spardo:
Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

Would you like to:

A) Remain in the European Union
B) Leave the European Union

I’m not sure how it could have been framed any clearer, or how this is fraud.

Unlike Heath’s hiding of FCO 30/1048 from the electorate.Or the contradiction between the Queen’s role in defending the state from foreign takeover and giving her Assent to the European Communities Act/Single European Act/Maastricht/Lisbon.

3207

ramone:

Spardo:

ramone:
So 4 million people have signed a petition to have a second vote ,

Not true, the petition is to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU, not for another referendum.

Otherwise I would have not put my name to it as I don’t want another one. The one which caused all this mess was fraudulent and there is no point in doing it all again.

Because it was fraudulent both in its framing and conduct it should be annulled. Hence the revocation of article 50.

The correct way to leave the EU is by a free vote in Parliament, that is what MPs are elected to do. Therefore the correct way to revoque a fraudulent decision is by a free vote in Parliament.

And before someone says that most MPs were elected on a party manifesto I will say this. Prospective MPs almost always need to join one party or another in the UK system and stand on that party’s manifesto at election. It is always dishonest because they can’t possibly believe in every little aspect of it, but they have to lump it if they want to get in. Once in there they often defy the whips on a point of principle, so why should this, the most important decision of all except to go to war, be any different?

Like i said democracy is dead

If the correct way is by vote in parliament then why did the same Parliament,which you are referring to,decide to pass the Referendum Act by 544 votes to 53 ?.Also why didn’t we hear the same protests from the Remain side,that it isn’t a matter for referendum,regarding the 1975 Referendum and its obviously fraudulent result.On that note no voting a nation out of existence and into the hands of a foreign German run 4th Reich isn’t up for discussion or vote whether referendum or parliamentary.

As for going to war it doesn’t get much more like war than a bunch of Krauts and their continental allies and some treasonous muppets at home trying to takeover and handover the country to a foreign power.Make no mistake the 4 million treasonous tossers and their traitor allies running the government really don’t realise the zb storm that they have kicked off here.The only good thing about it being that the whole stinking process has now drained the swamp more than enough to clearly see all the scum bag pond life that is trying to take and give away our country to the EUSSR.Meanwhile HM forces stand by and allow it to happen.Unbelievable to the point where even those like Juddian were fooled.

3208

A copy of this should be sent to every UK address. It might change a few minds.

europarl.europa.eu/resources … S86651.pdf

3209

cav551:
A copy of this should be sent to every UK address. It might change a few minds.

europarl.europa.eu/resources … S86651.pdf

It might change a few minds indeed. Those who look at our own rudderless, clueless, bunch of infighting idiots, who have no agreements and plans for any cohesive future, may well look at how Government can be done and be envious.
Many will look at how differing groups can unite behind a common goal and so work for a prosperous future, instead of wasting time, energy, and goodwill on internal squabbling. 27 countries with a common stance. We can’t even manage one major political party with that!
You’re right. It’s a good advert for Europe. It’ll convince many we are better off in the EU than out.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

3210

Franglais:

cav551:
A copy of this should be sent to every UK address. It might change a few minds.

europarl.europa.eu/resources … S86651.pdf

It might change a few minds indeed. Those who look at our own rudderless, clueless, bunch of infighting idiots, who have no agreements and plans for any cohesive future, may well look at how Government can be done and be envious.
Many will look at how differing groups can unite behind a common goal and so work for a prosperous future, instead of wasting time, energy, and goodwill on internal squabbling. 27 countries with a common stance. We can’t even manage one major political party with that!
You’re right. It’s a good advert for Europe. It’ll convince many we are better off in the EU than out.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Can anyone on this forum identify the date WE as U.K. nationals/citizens/residents were giving the privilege to opt in or opt out of becoming part of the EU.
We weren’t it was an underhanded step by political leaders who confused the public with unnoficial facts and figures plucked from the vision they, the so called leaders, thought this country could and would become.
Britain would become at the forefront of technology / industry / finance … Has it ? No can’t say it has, we’ve suffered several financial crisis’, 3 recessions, our financial wizards had the foresight to remove banking, pensions and insurance companies overseas ( into non eu nations :confused: ) our national industries were sold long ago, GPO, British Coal, British Steel, British Gas, Oil fields, British Rail, for the benefit of the country ? … No !! but for the benefit of the politicians and bankers.
Employment figures released this week stated we have an all time high of employed in the U.K. 33.6 million, 4% higher than 1974 ( how that works is beyond me as our population wasn’t half as high then ) we currently have 1.5 million unemployed and a population of almost 67 million ( 66,854,357 ) which has increased massively since 2010 ( 62,722,607 ). Our NHS is over stretched, our welfare and social system is abused by ficticious claims, the U.K. can’t even offer housing as our homeless are one of the highest across Europe. Our laws have been taken away or superceeded by European legislations, the way we work and go about our daily lives, all dictated by a group of unelected European politicians.

I didn’t vote to become a member of the EU, because there wasn’t a vote, I’m NOT an EU citizen I am BRITISH.
It doesn’t matter what ■■■■■■ remain ■■■■■■■■ propoganda is posted, what rants the remain campers have the outcome was made by a democratic vote and the Leave Camp won.

3211

Grumpy Dad:
Can anyone on this forum identify the date WE as U.K. nationals/citizens/residents were giving the privilege to opt in or opt out of becoming part of the EU.
We weren’t it was an underhanded step by political leaders who confused the public with unnoficial facts and figures plucked from the vision they, the so called leaders, thought this country could and would become.

Are you referring to the 1975 referendum?

Grumpy Dad:
Britain would become at the forefront of technology / industry / finance … Has it ? No can’t say it has, we’ve suffered several financial crisis’, 3 recessions, our financial wizards had the foresight to remove banking, pensions and insurance companies overseas ( into non eu nations ) our national industries were sold long ago, GPO, British Coal, British Steel, British Gas, Oil fields, British Rail, for the benefit of the country ? … No !! but for the benefit of the politicians and bankers.

And what has this to do with our membership of the EU? Would things have been so different if we were outside it?
Globalisation is… wait for it…GLOBAL ! It isn`t peculiar to just Europe.
And it seems to me that we can better manage the influence of multi-national compaqnies as part of a bigger group that as a smaller individual economic unit.

Grumpy Dad:
Our NHS is over stretched, our welfare and social system is abused by ficticious claims, the U.K. can’t even offer housing as our homeless are one of the highest across Europe.

Yes, it is a NATIONAL disgrace that our successive NATIONAL Governments have been under-investing in health, education and housing.

Grumpy Dad:
Our laws have been taken away or superceeded by European legislations, the way we work and go about our daily lives, all dictated by a group of unelected European politicians.

The UK voted with the majority in the EU 97.4% 2004/09 and 86.7% 2009/15. Substantially we get what we want. Some allege the lower later figure was a deliberate ploy by some parties. European M.P.s are elected. They aren`t dictators.

Grumpy Dad:
I didn’t vote to become a member of the EU, because there wasn’t a vote, I’m NOT an EU citizen I am BRITISH.

That`s right. We in Britain have a form of representative democracy. Our elected M.P.s take decisions for us. That is the British system.
The door is open. You can go to Switzerland if you want a different system.

3212

Spardo:

Franglais:

Spardo:
Well, although I admit I was listening on a crackly signal in Northern France so could have got it wrong, but I thought she has 2 weeks extra to get the ‘deal’ through, or if not, another month or 2 to think of something else (referendum or general election), or, if she was willing to take part in the EU elections, a much longer extension.

My hopes (faint ) are for failed deal, long extension for GE, then revoquation.

Oh, and I did hear something about an ‘Overseas Electors’ bill. Something which was promised more than 2 GEs ago. If you think you are betrayed, Buzzer, you’re not the only one.

Spardo, have you seen the UK Gov Petition site? The “Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU” is up around the 4 million signature mark now. Unlikely to have any practical effect, given the timelines, but, it is open to all UK citizens to sign, so maybe you would like to put a small mark there?

Already done, Franglais, I was about the half millionth to sign. [emoji38]

I agree, as all my friends here who signed do, that it will have little effect, but at least we get a little bit of our voice heard in this infair and un-democratic world. :slight_smile:

Signed as well, just to show that we are still here…Half of the country voted remain, so it should be reflected in any outcome.

Sent from my HUAWEI LYO-L01 using Tapatalk

3213

Franglais:
r own rudderless, clueless, bunch of infighting idiots, who have no agreements and plans for any cohesive future, may well look at how Government can be done and be envious.
Many will look at how differing groups can unite behind a common goal and so work for a prosperous future, instead of wasting time, energy, and goodwill on internal squabbling. 27 countries with a common stance. We can’t even manage one major political party with that!
You’re right. It’s a good advert for Europe. It’ll convince many we are better off in the EU than out.

There are obviously no plans and were never mean’t to be any because we’ve got remainers in charge of the process who’s obvious aim was always to sabotage and reverse Brexit.Ever since they didn’t/couldn’t rig the referendum vote sufficiently to create the result they wanted.

3214

From that EU document above:
In the context of the renewed debate on the future
of Europe, 47% of European citizens feel that their
voice counts in the EU, the best result since the 2009
European elections. With 57% of those who responded
feeling that EU membership is a good thing for their
country

My rough maths make that LESS THAN 27% of EU citizens reckon the EU is good for their country.
That’s encouraging!

3215

milesahead:
Half of the country voted remain, so it should be reflected in any outcome.

Only a lying remainer could count 48% as being ‘half’ and a vassal state of the EU 4th Reich as a supposed ‘country’.So let’s say remain had won the referendum with 52% of the vote you’re saying that the Leave vote should/would have then been reflected in any outcome.You’re avin a typical Federalist larf.It really is time to take the gloves off in this argument in the Leave side realising that giving away and handing over the country to a foreign power isn’t up for discussion or vote.

3216

Franglais:

cav551:
A copy of this should be sent to every UK address. It might change a few minds.

europarl.europa.eu/resources … S86651.pdf

It might change a few minds indeed. Those who look at our own rudderless, clueless, bunch of infighting idiots, who have no agreements and plans for any cohesive future, may well look at how Government can be done and be envious.
Many will look at how differing groups can unite behind a common goal and so work for a prosperous future, instead of wasting time, energy, and goodwill on internal squabbling. 27 countries with a common stance. We can’t even manage one major political party with that!
You’re right. It’s a good advert for Europe. It’ll convince many we are better off in the EU than out.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

I thought that you would be delighted by it. Anyone who pays their taxes ‘on the continent’ rather than the UK will clearly be in favour of continued and increased UK contributions to the expanded EU dream. Good ol’ Blighty will be expected to save Europe once again; mainly by paying for the dream while doffing our caps with a yes sir, no sir President Macron Vive la republique de l’Europe, nous vous souhaitons avec felicitations et beaucoup, beaucoup d’argent pour votre reve de gloire. Notre armee est a ta disposition.

Or rather, Va te faire foutre Macron.

youtube.com/watch?v=4V33nqX3-ls

3217

gazzer:
From that EU document above:
In the context of the renewed debate on the future
of Europe, 47% of European citizens feel that their
voice counts in the EU, the best result since the 2009
European elections. With 57% of those who responded
feeling that EU membership is a good thing for their
country

My rough maths make that LESS THAN 27% of EU citizens reckon the EU is good for their country.
That’s encouraging!

And about 26% of UK citizens voted to leave the EU in the last referendum…
We can all play with figures. :smiley:

3218

Franglais:

Grumpy Dad:
Can anyone on this forum identify the date WE as U.K. nationals/citizens/residents were giving the privilege to opt in or opt out of becoming part of the EU.
We weren’t it was an underhanded step by political leaders who confused the public with unnoficial facts and figures plucked from the vision they, the so called leaders, thought this country could and would become.

Are you referring to the 1975 referendum?

Grumpy Dad:
Britain would become at the forefront of technology / industry / finance … Has it ? No can’t say it has, we’ve suffered several financial crisis’, 3 recessions, our financial wizards had the foresight to remove banking, pensions and insurance companies overseas ( into non eu nations ) our national industries were sold long ago, GPO, British Coal, British Steel, British Gas, Oil fields, British Rail, for the benefit of the country ? … No !! but for the benefit of the politicians and bankers.

And what has this to do with our membership of the EU? Would things have been so different if we were outside it?
Globalisation is… wait for it…GLOBAL ! It isn`t peculiar to just Europe.
And it seems to me that we can better manage the influence of multi-national compaqnies as part of a bigger group that as a smaller individual economic unit.

Grumpy Dad:
Our NHS is over stretched, our welfare and social system is abused by ficticious claims, the U.K. can’t even offer housing as our homeless are one of the highest across Europe.

Yes, it is a NATIONAL disgrace that our successive NATIONAL Governments have been under-investing in health, education and housing.

Grumpy Dad:
Our laws have been taken away or superceeded by European legislations, the way we work and go about our daily lives, all dictated by a group of unelected European politicians.

The UK voted with the majority in the EU 97.4% 2004/09 and 86.7% 2009/15. Substantially we get what we want. Some allege the lower later figure was a deliberate ploy by some parties. European M.P.s are elected. They aren`t dictators.

Grumpy Dad:
I didn’t vote to become a member of the EU, because there wasn’t a vote, I’m NOT an EU citizen I am BRITISH.

That`s right. We in Britain have a form of representative democracy. Our elected M.P.s take decisions for us. That is the British system.
The door is open. You can go to Switzerland if you want a different system.

Oh wait the 1975 referendum which remainers were obviously happy to go along with before during and after.Also bearing in mind the fraud of Heath hiding FCO 30/1048 from the electorate.

It wasn’t globalisation which resulted in the wholesale massacre of Brit industry in favour of the Germans replacing much of the resulting vacuum in our manufacturing requirements.Leading to a 50 billion Euro deficit with Germany alone by recent figures.The resulting loans needed to pay for it obviously being serviced at the expense of the NHS etc just like the net EU contribution added to it.Which you hypocritically like to moan about let alone then trying to blame us for it.

As for a so called ‘British’ ‘parliamentary democracy’ yes obviously only selectively when it suits you.In going along with the contradiction of handing over British sovereignty and with it democratic accountability to the foreign power,of the illegal,invalid,undeclared de Jure EU Federal Reich and its government,in the form of the unelected Commission politburo and foreign QMV majority vote within the EU parliament and the ECJ.So we’ve seen your idea of British that being nothing but a vassal subservient state of a German led 4th Reich run by Germany for Germany with a bit of help from the French in true Vichy style in the form of zb Macron.

3219

Franglais:

gazzer:
From that EU document above:
In the context of the renewed debate on the future
of Europe, 47% of European citizens feel that their
voice counts in the EU, the best result since the 2009
European elections. With 57% of those who responded
feeling that EU membership is a good thing for their
country

My rough maths make that LESS THAN 27% of EU citizens reckon the EU is good for their country.
That’s encouraging!

And about 26% of UK citizens voted to leave the EU in the last referendum…
We can all play with figures. :smiley:

I’m guessing that the definition of ‘citizens’ means eligible vote.

While 52% of 72% of the eligible vote = ?.

3220

cav551:
I thought that you would be delighted by it. Anyone who pays their taxes ‘on the continent’ rather than the UK will clearly be in favour of continued and increased UK contributions to the expanded EU dream. Good ol’ Blighty will be expected to save Europe once again; mainly by paying for the dream while doffing our caps with a yes sir, no sir President Macron Vive la republique de l’Europe, nous vous souhaitons avec felicitations et beaucoup, beaucoup d’argent pour votre reve de gloire. Notre armee est a ta disposition.

Or rather, Va te faire foutre Macron.

youtube.com/watch?v=4V33nqX3-ls

As a full UK tax payer I reckon that the amount I paid into the EU last year was worth it.
■■■■, I`d even be happy to up my income tax contribution to £50 per annum and still be happy! I reckon the added grief of leaving will cost me more than that*. Less than 3 quid a week for the right to travel, live, and work anywhere in Europe. No visas. No roaming charges. Largely the same standards for trade, safety and no hiding places for crims “over there”. Ease of trade for goods and services so more prosperity for us ALL. Bargain.

Share the military?
Imagine another Falklands? Wouldn`t do so well on our own today I guess. Not the fault of the Services and their personnel, but lack of investment by Governments.
But maybe with French aircraft carrier at our disposal it could still be do-able, eh?

*But it isnt only income tax, I dont want to accused of using misleading figures. The ONS shows that in 2016 it was a net per-capita per-annum payment of about £150 in 2016.
ons.gov.uk/economy/governme … 2017-10-31