If the EU had stayed as a trading group between the ‘richer’ nations of Europe, I’m sure it would have been a huge success.
My Honeymoon was in Benidorm in 1974. Spain was very close to being a 3rd world country. Call me cynical, but our taxes have dragged Spain into the first world. My Bradford and Bingley account is now Santander.
The problem is we cannot drag every country up! They have to do it themselves. Imagine trying to bring Turkey to the west European standard of living. No wonder they all want to come here!
I’m not surprised Call me Dave has brought the vote forward as far as he can. He knows that by 2017 the whole thing will be falling apart. Even now in Spain, the minimum wage is about £3.00.
I’ve watched quite a few of the suggested Youtubes on here. How can you not be frightened by all this? Yet our Government is playing bigger scare cards. Positively nauseating!
Sadly, I suspect that remain will win. However, the joke may be on them because even the unelected Juncker ‘fears ruin’.
John
Well said John ! and as far as I am concerned even if the “Remain” gang scrape in by a small margin(which I hope they won’t) notwithstanding the tremendous super human effort they have brought to bear to get the result! I believe CMD has let the Genie out of the bottle and the Chickens will start coming home to roost in the next few years as the EU will start falling apart ! So if the result is close in favour of CMD I can see nothing but unrest in the UK and who knows if at the next general election or before if CMD throws the towel in it maybe a case of a rerun of this referendum and the “new” Conservative party will take us out of the EU once and for all. job done. Just as an aside, one of our waiters we had on holiday in Greece was a post grad student and he was very articulate ( a bit like yourself! ) and he was adamant that the UK should leave the EU and that we would have no problem standing on our own two feet ! very humbling been served by someone who was defo of superior intelligence than myself and who couldn’t get a job in his own country to reflect his obvious talent !! “Vote early and vote often” OUT,OUT,OUT, Cheers Dennis.
David Miller:
0
Advance apologies to anyone this offends but this is a Greek view:
As a german i’m really not a friend of Merkels political acting and i’ll be glad when she will ■■■■ off in 2017 hopefully and i guess the majority of the germans will be, but it’s a sad sign to see such pictures in this forum.
To compare the era of ww2 with the Situation today is a sign of complete stupidity.
Nowerdays as a german you could do what you want but you are the “■■■■” in any case.
I’m sorry but some People over here should read (and understand) history books than posting such crap.
Scania141LBS:
David Miller:
0
Advance apologies to anyone this offends but this is a Greek view:As a german i’m really not a friend of Merkels political acting and i’ll be glad when she will ■■■■ off in 2017 hopefully and i guess the majority of the germans will be, but it’s a sad sign to see such pictures in this forum.
To compare the era of ww2 with the Situation today is a sign of complete dumbness.
Nowerdays as a german you could do what you want but you are the “■■■■” in any case.
I’m sorry but some People over here should read (and understand) history books than posting such crap.
Boris’s comment about comparing the EU with Hitler wasn’t meant “literally” he was merely comparing the aims of the two but achieving the same result by different means and he was right ! In 1975 the vote was for an European Economic Community but it was a total con the results of which we see to-day namely the unrelenting drive toward a Euro Superstate ! Ted Heath and Harold Wilson conned the British populace and David Cameron is perpetrating the same lies which I sincerely hope the British people will see through and vote LEAVE ! Bewick.
Dennis it is obvious that you and I are singing of the same song sheet so why can others not see what is happening here, if per chance we stay in we will as you said and I agree with you we will only have to endure this farce for two or three years more as the self destruct button in Brussels has already been pressed and the EU will dissipate at an alarming speed, should we exit now just watch the others follow suit.
Should we remain we will have to wait a little while, go now and the difference is that we will have a couple of years head start on the rest re establishing our world trading and will be relieved of laws and restrictions imposed on us and quite frankly strangling our businesses by the unelected EU machine, lets do it, lets do it, lets do it now, out is the new buzz word, Buzzer.
Scania141LBS:
David Miller:
0
Advance apologies to anyone this offends but this is a Greek view:As a german i’m really not a friend of Merkels political acting and i’ll be glad when she will ■■■■ off in 2017 hopefully and i guess the majority of the germans will be, but it’s a sad sign to see such pictures in this forum.
To compare the era of ww2 with the Situation today is a sign of complete dumbness.
Nowerdays as a german you could do what you want but you are the “■■■■” in any case.
I’m sorry but some People over here should read (and understand) history books than posting such crap.
In about 1975, a friend of my wife’s was at uni. One of her set books was ‘the rise and fall of the third reich’ by William l shirer, an American journalist who had lived in Germany before the war. She really had no interest in it. I borrowed it and was absolutely fascinated. I returned it to her the next weekend and gave her a précis or synopsis of it which she used towards her course.
I was reading it at Watford Gap Services, when a German Truck Driver asked me (in perfect English) ‘why are you reading that?’
I replied that the subject fascinated me (actually, it still does). He said that Germans today didn’t think like that. I agreed, since neither of us had actually been born when the war took place.
We both said that we should learn from this period in history and move forward.
When I was in Saudi, we had a German mechanic at Caravan Trading (a transport company, not caravans as we know them),Jurgen Becker.
Germany was split in two at the time. I asked him how he could bear this? ( I had travelled through west and east Germany on overland by then and had seen the difference)
Jurgen said that East Germans were proud of their communist ethos and did not want to rejoin the west.
History has proved him wrong… But Frau Merkel was an East German, and I do wonder if she would like us all to be on her level playing field. I’m sure it isn’t anything to do with the Nazis and I can see why you are appalled Scania 141lbs. I am happy for our countries to be equal partners, but I can’t see why we have to be joined instead of just equal.
John
Bewick:
Scania141LBS:
As a german i’m really not a friend of Merkels political acting and i’ll be glad when she will ■■■■ off in 2017 hopefully and i guess the majority of the germans will be, but it’s a sad sign to see such pictures in this forum.
To compare the era of ww2 with the Situation today is a sign of complete dumbness.
Nowerdays as a german you could do what you want but you are the “■■■■” in any case.
I’m sorry but some People over here should read (and understand) history books than posting such crap.Boris’s comment about comparing the EU with Hitler wasn’t meant “literally” he was merely comparing the aims of the two but achieving the same result by different means and he was right ! In 1975 the vote was for an European Economic Community but it was a total con the results of which we see to-day namely the unrelenting drive toward a Euro Superstate ! Ted Heath and Harold Wilson conned the British populace and David Cameron is perpetrating the same lies which I sincerely hope the British people will see through and vote LEAVE ! Bewick.
Boris chose the wrong analogy ( not surprising being Boris ).The correct analogy is the former Yugoslavia.IE forced ethnic integration which ignored ethnic differences and alienation,unworkable economic integration,Federal government along bleeding heart Socialist ideological lines which ignored National Sovereignty and democracy and National Identity.All resulting in the inevitable in that case violent breakdown.Which was all so sadly predictable from the outset. 
As for Germany unfortunately Hitler’s rise to power was the inevitable result of us and France getting involved in the argument between Russia and Germany in 1914 when we should have stayed out of it.
While what the Germans can be blamed for is their cynical involvement in the post WW2 stitch up which made Germany a special case in being the dominant European economic power.It’s that what the Greeks are rightly pished off about as we should be.The EU being part of that.
John West:
If the EU had stayed as a trading group between the ‘richer’ nations of Europe, I’m sure it would have been a huge success.
My Honeymoon was in Benidorm in 1974. Spain was very close to being a 3rd world country. Call me cynical, but our taxes have dragged Spain into the first world. My Bradford and Bingley account is now Santander.
The problem is we cannot drag every country up! They have to do it themselves. Imagine trying to bring Turkey to the west European standard of living. No wonder they all want to come here!
I’m not surprised Call me Dave has brought the vote forward as far as he can. He knows that by 2017 the whole thing will be falling apart. Even now in Spain, the minimum wage is about £3.00.
I’ve watched quite a few of the suggested Youtubes on here. How can you not be frightened by all this? Yet our Government is playing bigger scare cards. Positively nauseating!Sadly, I suspect that remain will win. However, the joke may be on them because even the unelected Juncker ‘fears ruin’.
John
When I worked for Spillers, (1981 and all of the 1980s decade), I had to visit Eire every six weeks or so, staying on average three days at a time. When I first started to go there it was like visiting another era with regards to infrastructure. Even then, in the west of the country donkey carts were not uncommon sights. Then when Ireland joined the EU, money started to come in and the improvements were obvious, especially on the farms where new barns and buildings were springing up everywhere. I’m not having a whinge about this because I like Ireland and its people very much, but I think this observation confirms your point. The money had to come from somewhere
Yes Gingerfold you are correct in what you have said that is why they joined the club[EU]
.
There will be very many of drivers on this site me included that drove all around EUROPE IN THE 1970/80s and knew what the economic situation was like in nearly all the poor continental countries as they were known to us.and once in the club they started to rise up to our so called better economic situation, and just look at them now.
,and even more want to come in and use the same yard stick all the others used.Take it all…i am voting OUT.
Like Gingerfold says most of Europe until year 2000 was mainly peasant land ,then along came the euro and bang everyone got rich,we started going to France on a regular basis in 1991 and there were no credit cards,mobile phones, decent cars,modern houses etc until the euro appeared when fantastic deals were offered to trade in old cars for new and land was available at 1 euro a square meter for building so of course they all took advantage and now everyone seem,s to be rich. 
This is well worth a read, yes I get the Daily Mail, no I do not always believe what is written, but hey I do not have a problem with the truth of this article by Steve Hilton, concentrate on the black on white text and especially the 4th last paragraph dailymail.co.uk/news/article … elite.html
Oily
oiltreader:
This is well worth a read, yes I get the Daily Mail, no I do not always believe what is written, but hey I do not have a problem with the truth of this article by Steve Hilton, concentrate on the black on white text and especially the 4th last paragraph dailymail.co.uk/news/article … elite.html
Oily
excellent article! 
Evening all,
You know that I consider well what I write on such an emotive subject, and in the main I concur with David Millers response…we, (I generalise), of the older generation would wish to remove our country from this megalamaniac un- elected morass of social experimentation and whatever the hardships “row our own boat”…far, far…away!.
But the younger generation, “yoof”…what of them?
Many would wish, (no doubt), to remain in the comfortable “warm fuzz land” of the status quo…for many and varied reasons…and after all they will have to get their backsides into gear to create a new Great (er) Britain, if we come out…Have they the drive…the absolute “balls” to do that?..Because Gentlemen, whatever our feelings, we are of a limited life span, and (sadly) the future is not ours!..its theirs…and maybe, they have been raised , and now expect to be “directed”, rather than think for themselves…what a totally sad thought that really is!
The" remainers"…and their ever more frantic “figures”, (and I spent a great deal of my working life analysing/manipulating statistics to “prove” a case)…and thus have a total disrespect for nearly all of the analysis put forward by either side of this debate…after all 100% of zero…is zero!..and some of the statistics put forward by remain campaigners, and quite eminent ones at that are absolutely rediculous…nay absolutely stupid…but are picked up by the braying, uneducated, and politically active media and trumpeted as irrefutable fact!!!..which of course it really is not.
But should we remain…think on…to M Junker, and his cabel, any Government that would even think of being so weak kneed to grant its citizens a vote, that allows the population to even think for themselves that there would be any alternative to the European “superstate”…is a weak Government, and totally out of step with European policy…so watch out M Cameron, and your, “weak Government”…stay in…licking their bums…but do not expect gratitude…you, sir, aint going to get it.....and there will be many scores to settle.....and settle them the "cabal" will.........That my friends aint the door to warm fuzz land at all!..
An aside, the Tories, 20 plus years in opposition…yet look at the last Queens speech…where are the dynamic policies, where is the drive…they are foundering on Europe…get out, DOMINATE…WE are the real movers and shakers…if only you pillocks could realise it…But they cannot…
Fair drives you to drink
A large Bollinger I think
Cheerio for now.
carryfast-yeti:
oiltreader:
This is well worth a read, yes I get the Daily Mail, no I do not always believe what is written, but hey I do not have a problem with the truth of this article by Steve Hilton, concentrate on the black on white text and especially the 4th last paragraph dailymail.co.uk/news/article … elite.html
Oilyexcellent article!
Time to throw another grenade into Cameron’s campaign. 
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007
youtube.com/watch?v=TBWdWoDsbgY
rt.com/uk/341815-cameron-bre … questions/
It seems obvious that he has to go for deliberately misleading the Liaison Committee as to the question of his position regarding Turkey’s membership of the EU.On that note I’d rather have Israel and Greece guarding the camp than zb Erdogan and Turkey.
Saviem:
An aside, the Tories, 20 plus years in opposition…yet look at the last Queens speech…where are the dynamic policies, where is the drive…they are foundering on Europe…get out, DOMINATE…WE are the real movers and shakers…if only you pillocks could realise it…But they cannot…Fair drives you to drink
A large Bollinger I think
Cheerio for now.
To be fair that’s been the case since they chose Heath and then Thatcher over Powell and Labour chose Callaghan and Healey over Shore and Benn.What’s certain is we’re not going to save the country without a new Nationalist leaning Labour and Conservative co alition just as we needed then.
When this referendum campaign began I was very much undecided; my heart was saying “leave”; my head was saying “remain”. After all the negativity, scaremongering, and verbal bullying from the Remain campaign I have got off the fence and I will now be voting “Leave”. I hate bullies with a passion and I have always stood up to them.
Good for you, Gingerfold.
The sheer amount of lies and misinformation that is being put about by the ‘stay’ campain should be a national disgrace. I can’t see ‘call me Dave’ surviving if the vote goes the way it should.
David
David Miller:
Good for you, Gingerfold.
The sheer amount of lies and misinformation that is being put about by the ‘stay’ campain should be a national disgrace. I can’t see ‘call me Dave’ surviving if the vote goes the way it should.David
David as I said before if we stay in we wont need Whitehall and all its servants (think of the money saved there) as all decisions for us will be made in Brussels much as they are now and in any case its only a matter of time before the whole EU dissipates, its just a shame that one of the other member states was not voting as we are right now as I think they are on the fence ready to jump and are watching with bated breath to see what happens with us. if we come out I have no doubt in my mind others will very rapidly follow suit and then collapse of the EU and all its corruption.
Saviem (John) I like your piece of wisdom its just a shame that brits have lost there ball’s and have been weakened by multi cultural society we now have to endure and its only going to get worse if we stay in, Buzzer.
David Miller:
Good for you, Gingerfold.
The sheer amount of lies and misinformation that is being put about by the ‘stay’ campain should be a national disgrace. I can’t see ‘call me Dave’ surviving if the vote goes the way it should.David
+1
An out vote would be a game changer regarding domestic politics.
The problem is that everything suggests a rigged vote assuming the propaganda blitz doesn’t work because there are too many big players wanting in from the CBI to the US government.While also instantly marginalising a huge pro EU section of the government establishment.In addition to upsetting the Queen because she wants us to remain tied to Scotland with its probable in majority.