Eu referendum whats your vote

[franglais]

Spardo:

Buzzer:
Ah Spardo you just hit the nail smack on the head with that statement because if you analyse your reply to my quote, that is exactly what the EU does to Great Britain, Buzzer

Oh dear, I thought there for a moment that we were having a sensible discussion, but now you’ve gone and spoiled it.

The EU has stuck to the treaties, but you are saying that Britain shouldn’t and should renege on promises freely given.

I think you may have been taking lessons from CF in word twisting.

Word twisting?
Perish the thought.

Slightly different, but, have you heard the thoughts of Trump on Brexit today?

Mind you, at least we can expect him to be true to form, and change his opinion with the next change of wind direction.

Edit. Typo

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[buzzer]

Spardo:

Buzzer:
Ah Spardo you just hit the nail smack on the head with that statement because if you analyse your reply to my quote, that is exactly what the EU does to Great Britain, Buzzer

Oh dear, I thought there for a moment that we were having a sensible discussion, but now you’ve gone and spoiled it.

The EU has stuck to the treaties, but you are saying that Britain shouldn’t and should renege on promises freely given.

I think you may have been taking lessons from CF in word twisting.

Word twisting eh spardo, now that is definitely the pot calling the kettle black, anyways sometimes old CF has some sensible input and it certainly keeps you entertained.

[fodenway]

I see that T. May is going around the country trying to convince the public that her deal is the best option. Why? It’s up to Parliament to pass or throw out her deal - unless of course she’s buttering us up for a “People’s vote/second referendum” which she was promising only last week would never happen. Just like “remaining in the EU is not an option” - until a few days ago when “My deal or no deal” suddenly became “My deal, no deal or no Brexit”. And note that Hammond said yesterday that on a purely economic level, remaining would be better for the UK, but only just - so the spectre of staying in is now being openly touted. Just get on with it, and get us out.

[buzzer]

fodenway your right Mrs May in Northern Ireland yesterday I counted four Range Rovers plus another car and a transit van in her cavalcade and the tax payer is footing the bill why just not the transit van, put a builders logo on the side and your security is sorted. Just think what it has cost alone just flitting back and forth to Brussels since we voted OUT in 2016 must be a small fortune.
As I have said before when we voted on Brexit there were only the two options, stay or leave no mention of any deals where the hell did that come from, fingers and every thing else crossed for the 11th of December cant wait to see what will be chucked at us if she don’t get her way.
The supreme EU court has rejected the remainer’s plea to revoke Brexit yesterday so that little bid failed, they said it would encourage other members to follow suit, Buzzer

[cav551]

Buzzer:
fodenway your right Mrs May in Northern Ireland yesterday I counted four Range Rovers plus another car and a transit van in her cavalcade and the tax payer is footing the bill why just not the transit van, put a builders logo on the side and your security is sorted. Just think what it has cost alone just flitting back and forth to Brussels since we voted OUT in 2016 must be a small fortune.
As I have said before when we voted on Brexit there were only the two options, stay or leave no mention of any deals where the hell did that come from, fingers and every thing else crossed for the 11th of December cant wait to see what will be chucked at us if she don’t get her way.
The supreme EU court has rejected the remainer’s plea to revoke Brexit yesterday so that little bid failed, they said it would encourage other members to follow suit, Buzzer

Isn’t it suppose to rule on a point of law and not of political policy?

[franglais]

fodenway:
I see that T. May is going around the country trying to convince the public that her deal is the best option. Why? It’s up to Parliament to pass or throw out her deal - unless of course she’s buttering us up for a “People’s vote/second referendum” which she was promising only last week would never happen. Just like “remaining in the EU is not an option” - until a few days ago when “My deal or no deal” suddenly became “My deal, no deal or no Brexit”. And note that Hammond said yesterday that on a purely economic level, remaining would be better for the UK, but only just - so the spectre of staying in is now being openly touted. Just get on with it, and get us out.

Maybe it’s to get constituents to tell their MPs how to vote?
Isn’t that the way it’s meant to work?

(And that should work whatever one’s viewpoint is)

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[animal]

fodenway:
I see that T. May is going around the country trying to convince the public that her deal is the best option. Why? It’s up to Parliament to pass or throw out her deal - unless of course she’s buttering us up for a “People’s vote/second referendum” which she was promising only last week would never happen. Just like “remaining in the EU is not an option” - until a few days ago when “My deal or no deal” suddenly became “My deal, no deal or no Brexit”. And note that Hammond said yesterday that on a purely economic level, remaining would be better for the UK, but only just - so the spectre of staying in is now being openly touted. Just get on with it, and get us out.

Remember the Good Friday agreement took a long time to sort out a lot of give & take on both sides not perfect but it was a compromise & it works well that is what this is

We have to be careful as we cant have a hard deal due Ireland as we cant have a border in the sea unless you can say how to man all the border crossings over 200 btw

[malmic]

You’re quite right Franglais.
Theresa May,s version of brexit clearly isn’t very popular but it does seem to be gaining some support.
I suspect that Jeremy Corbyn,s idea of brexit will be even less popular with brexiteers.
The ERG group who I think want an exit on WTO terms haven’t got a hope of getting that through the HoC.
We’re a hopelessly divided country

[animal]

malmic:
You’re quite right Franglais.
Theresa May,s version of brexit clearly isn’t very popular but it does seem to be gaining some support.
I suspect that Jeremy Corbyn,s idea of brexit will be even less popular with brexiteers.
The ERG group who I think want an exit on WTO terms haven’t got a hope of getting that through the HoC.
We’re a hopelessly divided country

It is what the leavers wanted what else did you expect with a bunch of politicians did you think we could just say bye bye & that would be it

Like I said took years for the Good Friday agreement to happen ( sorry not old enough to vote or remember that much about the 1st vote of the common market in the early 70’s but believe it took a while for all to agree on terms then ) like everything

[john_west]

Hopelessly divided?

I haven’t met one leaver who has changed their mind. I have met some remainers who are so disgusted with the EU that they have changed their mind.

The referendum was about remain or leave. That was it. No ‘Deal’ or ‘No Deal’.

Theresa May’s ‘Deal’ is an inevitable fudge to try and make us all accept an impossible position.

WTO is not a ‘cliff edge’ - most of the world trades on these rules.

If you watched the discussions about the Irish border where Mr. Verhofstadh crossed his arms and said ‘the rules are the rules!’ when JRM said,’ but we do not wish to impose any rules’,
Mr. Verhofstadh said ‘We cannot change the rules.’

Rubbish ! You change them daily!

Even I could write the software to solve this problem! You load in Ireland. You input the information. If I think there is a problem I visit the delivery point. And vice versa. Not that much different from now?

This is an invented problem!

The scaremongering by companies like Airbus is ridiculous. There are no WTO taxes on aeroplane parts. The transfer of manufacturing to Turkey (not in the EU) would be a business decision not connected with the current argument.

John.

[animal]

Sorry to disagree John I have met & know some who voted to leave change there minds & if there was a referendum now they would vote to remain ( sometimes better the devil you know )

Would rather be in the EU trade than the WTO ( have a good look at that )

[malmic]

Can’t really say whether people have changed their mind or not. Most people I speak to just want a resolution but not much sign of that happening.

[franglais]

John West:
Hopelessly divided?

I haven’t met one leaver who has changed their mind. I have met some remainers who are so disgusted with the EU that they have changed their mind.

The referendum was about remain or leave. That was it. No ‘Deal’ or ‘No Deal’.

Theresa May’s ‘Deal’ is an inevitable fudge to try and make us all accept an impossible position.

WTO is not a ‘cliff edge’ - most of the world trades on these rules.

If you watched the discussions about the Irish border where Mr. Verhofstadh crossed his arms and said ‘the rules are the rules!’ when JRM said,’ but we do not wish to impose any rules’,
Mr. Verhofstadh said ‘We cannot change the rules.’

Rubbish ! You change them daily!

Even I could write the software to solve this problem! You load in Ireland. You input the information. If I think there is a problem I visit the delivery point. And vice versa. Not that much different from now?

This is an invented problem!

The scaremongering by companies like Airbus is ridiculous. There are no WTO taxes on aeroplane parts. The transfer of manufacturing to Turkey (not in the EU) would be a business decision not connected with the current argument.

John.

We are divided as a country in that both sides seem to be entrenching deeper in their positions. And the May plan will please no one.

At least we will be United in all feeling angry and disappointed!

A fudge to solve the impossible?
Many promises made in the referendum were impossible.
Yes, a fudge is being offered.
A fudge always comes out of political change, in a democracy doesn’t it?

Where can a NI border go? It’s not just paperwork but where the border goes that is the problem surely?
Can’t split NI and Eire because of Good Friday agreement.
Eire and EU are borderless.
NI and UK are borderless.
So Warsaw to London become borderless.

Most of the world do not trade only on WTO rules as we would if we crashed out.
If we crash out we will have deals with no one.
EU obviously trades internally, plus has agreements all over the place, including now with the US. When we leave we’ll loose all of that.
US trades with Canada Mexico and now with EU etc.
BRIC countries have many deals.
Aus NZ Indonesia and Pacific rim countries have deals.
If we crash out we will be (almost?) unique in having no deals with anyone.
Deals take years to negotiate. We don’t have enough negotiators anyway.

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[carryfast]

Franglais:
We are divided as a country in that both sides seem to be entrenching deeper in their positions. And the May plan will please no one.

At least we will be United in all feeling angry and disappointed!

A fudge to solve the impossible?
Many promises made in the referendum were impossible.
Yes, a fudge is being offered.
A fudge always comes out of political change, in a democracy doesn’t it?

Where can a NI border go? It’s not just paperwork but where the border goes that is the problem surely?
Can’t split NI and Eire because of Good Friday agreement.
Eire and EU are borderless.
NI and UK are borderless.
So Warsaw to London become borderless.

Most of the world do not trade only on WTO rules as we would if we crashed out.
If we crash out we will have deals with no one.
EU obviously trades internally, plus has agreements all over the place, including now with the US. When we leave we’ll loose all of that.
US trades with Canada Mexico and now with EU etc.
BRIC countries have many deals.
Aus NZ Indonesia and Pacific rim countries have deals.
If we crash out we will be (almost?) unique in having no deals with anyone.
Deals take years to negotiate. We don’t have enough negotiators anyway.

The issue of Federalism v Nationalism/Secession/Self determination will always be one of if not the most divisive.Wars have rightly been fought over it.

As for so called deals and the Irish border we either reset the clock back to 1972 or ‘you lot’ and us will eventually and inevitably be going to war in some way at some point in time just as all the other cases throughout history.On that note the EU failing to recognise the pre standing Eire v UK agreements,as part of an obvious hostile intent towards stopping our secession from the EU,should already have set the alarm bells ringing to the point where we view the EU as an enemy state and it therefore even moreso becomes a matter of the country’s defence than Heath’s actions were when he took us into your stinking dictatorship.

Having said that I’m sure that those like my great uncle who died for Ireland’s freedom will be turning in their graves at Ireland’s stupidity in wanting to exchange rule from Westminster with rule from Brussels but also laughing at the irony of the Brit Federalism which killed them now also eating itself in the form of the UK being eaten by the EU.On that note yes if anything keeps us tied to the EU it will be the contradiction of UK Federalists,even including Batten,selectively supporting UK Federalism and European Nationalism.With the Conservative Party having long ago become a victim of that contradiction resulting in Heath’s actions in selling out his ‘country’ and all the rest who followed him.Which is why we are in this mess.

[buzzer]

Franglais are you a paid to scare monger by Mrs May or does it come naturally to you there is enough doom and gloom in the world without Brexit, the fact is that what ever happens in the end which no one has the foggiest at this point in time we will deal with it as we always do.
From my point of view this whole process has been one sided from the beginning, instead of Mrs May going to Brussels and stating what we were prepared to do she asked them how they wanted things to pan out big mistake as from that point the tail was wagging the dog, IMHO if you want to secure something you have to be positive right from the off something she was not.
Why the necessity for a hard border in Northern Ireland ? I cant get my head round that one at all, what is the point. Having been involved in International transport all my life and my boys still at it Brexit is a slight concern as we don’t want a return to permits and customs clearance mullarky as this just wasted a day both going in and coming out. That is something that will just add more cost, while we are on that subject today at least 85% of traffic in and out of this place is on foreign outfits so any controls are going to kill the job for them and will hurt them far more than the British haulier like us. Before any one spouts well there wont be the trade anyway thats poppycock, they still want to sell there goods to us for sure and business will carry on just the same’
Now we have to endure more doom and gloom as the discussions go to parliament so alot of bull crap to come, when you watch them performing in Whitehall on television on prime ministers question time it makes you wonder what we have got in place running the country.
There have been heated comments from both sides and it looks like it will continue for some time untill this whole charade is concluded, when i started this thread not even i thought it would be of such interest to you all but there you go, Buzzer

[franglais]

“There is enough doom and gloom in the world without Brexit” -Buzzer

Amen.

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[ramone]

I put Sky news on last night when i got hpme to be greeted with the headline Labour to put their weight behind a second referendum .Two things here the first being that the Labour leader has always been a Eurosceptic the second is that all those people who vote Labour and voted leave are going to have a big decision on their hands has Labour are know saying they dont agree with democracy
What happens (God forbid) if we do have a second vote and there’s a bigger majority that vote leave do we have another vote until the noisey minority get their own way .I think anyone with an ounce of sense will see right through these arrogant EU leaders and realise they are in it for their selves.It would be interesting to see the outcome of a vote for every country in the EU to leave or stay i bet the big contributors general public would want out especially the Germans

[buzzer]

Just been reading a bit about Italy’s finances and it aint looking too rosy, they are £1.3 trillion in the red which is 131% of there GDP second highest in the EU after Greece, they want the lira back and according to opinion there situation is a far greater problem to the EU than Brexit and reckon that Italy is far to big to fall but its not looking good. There spend plan is not good to rectify the situation at all, lets hope they do fall out and crush the EU at the same time, that will save the UK a whole lot of bother, Buzzer.

[bewick]

Buzzer:
Just been reading a bit about Italy’s finances and it aint looking too rosy, they are £1.3 trillion in the red which is 131% of there GDP second highest in the EU after Greece, they want the lira back and according to opinion there situation is a far greater problem to the EU than Brexit and reckon that Italy is far to big to fall but its not looking good. There spend plan is not good to rectify the situation at all, lets hope they do fall out and crush the EU at the same time, that will save the UK a whole lot of bother, Buzzer.

Nice one Buzzer ! I got one from our Son but Mother Teresa’s “boat” was where Corbyn’s is ! Oh! and I’ve just heard on the radio news that Teresa has said if she gets “blown out” on the vote it will be a crash out with no deal AND there will NOT be another referendum either !! Now She’s talking eh! Cheers Dennis.

[buzzer]

Bewick:

Buzzer:
Just been reading a bit about Italy’s finances and it aint looking too rosy, they are £1.3 trillion in the red which is 131% of there GDP second highest in the EU after Greece, they want the lira back and according to opinion there situation is a far greater problem to the EU than Brexit and reckon that Italy is far to big to fall but its not looking good. There spend plan is not good to rectify the situation at all, lets hope they do fall out and crush the EU at the same time, that will save the UK a whole lot of bother, Buzzer.

Nice one Buzzer ! I got one from our Son but Mother Teresa’s “boat” was where Corbyn’s is ! Oh! and I’ve just heard on the radio news that Teresa has said if she gets “blown out” on the vote it will be a crash out with no deal AND there will NOT be another referendum either !! Now She’s talking eh! Cheers Dennis.

Dennis I think if she loses on the vote she will definitely go out without a deal just so she can tell every one " I told you so " but I think we will do well when the shackles are off and we will show the rest of the EU how to do it in style, That Mark Carney wants to naff off back to Canada in all he has no grounds scaremongering like the rest of them, they are just ass lickers, Gove and the like in it for there own financial benefit and nought else, rule Brittania and all that, Buzzer