Carryfast:
" Firstly ‘free trade’ ‘but’ with the caveat of retaining the right to enforce ‘trade balance’ by way of tarrifs and barriers"
I hope youre in a good mood? That phrase is worthy of George Orwell ! Big Brother would be proud of such a masterful example of "Double Think". But, to take your point seriously, as it deserves, who is gonna sign up with us if we want "free trade with caveats" etc? And how long will those will those talks take? And I guess the poeple doing those talks wii be the same as you deem to have already failed in our present talks with the EU? Or who would you suggest? At what cost & time scale? "Nor is there any inconsistency in telling the East Euros to look after themselves along the same lines by paying their workers a decent wage to spend in their domestic economies instead of paying them peanuts and to stop dumping their resulting over capacity issues on us as part of that" As I said before the EU aint perfect. The above is, as you say a problem. Look at the alternative tho>>
Dateline 1989…Newly formed countries free of the CCCP. “The Wall” falls… Prosperous EU has a Free, Hungry, Ambitious, Fit, Young, population to the East. Invite them in, and lower our standard of living? Well thats what we (the EU) did. Not a good choice for our standards of living maybe. The alternative choice would be to have said Fit, Young, etc population watching sat tv etc on our borders... sound familiar with anything existing now? Stuff happens! It aint all good. Sometimes a bad choice is still the best choice!
I really think you do have some good points, but, with respect, you seem to want a Utopian solution, whereas Id be content with a small improvement on where we are now. And leaving the EU aint gonna make the ambitions of either you or me come true.
Franglais:
Look, if youre unhappy about our position as regards our manufacturing base, trade balance, etc, why blame the EU? Why not look at years of under-investment by multi-nationals chasing the quick buck? Years of gov (various colours) short term vote chasing?? Our membership of the EU has run parallel to this, but dont confuse Association with Cause & Effect.
A large part of the ‘reason’ for that ‘under investment’ being that the ‘investment’ was put into Germany instead.Which is what traitor Heath meant by joining the EU to prevent another European war.The inference being that if Germany doesn’t get what it wants then Germany throws its toys out of the pram and kicks off again.Or from the American point of view they run off to join their commy East German mates.The idea of a rigged so called ‘free market’ ,in which Germans buy German goods and we buy German imports,while closing down our own industries and providing Europe with its oil needs to pay for it all,being part of that scam. 
Franglais:
Carryfast:
" Firstly ‘free trade’ ‘but’ with the caveat of retaining the right to enforce ‘trade balance’ by way of tarrifs and barriers"
I hope you`re in a good mood? That phrase is worthy of George Orwell ! Big Brother would be proud of such a masterful example of “Double Think”. But, to take your point seriously, as it deserves, who is gonna sign up with us if we want “free trade with caveats” etc?
Feel free to explain how you’ll make a modern developed economic system work without those caveats. IE No one wins when the inability to maintain trade balance breaks any of the trading partners.Or the domestic economy collapses because of unemployment,low wages and loss of spending power and tax receipts resulting from trying to compete with exploitative low wage economies.Meaning they can no longer trade anyway because they are broke.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
" Firstly ‘free trade’ ‘but’ with the caveat of retaining the right to enforce ‘trade balance’ by way of tarrifs and barriers"
I hope you`re in a good mood? That phrase is worthy of George Orwell ! Big Brother would be proud of such a masterful example of “Double Think”. But, to take your point seriously, as it deserves, who is gonna sign up with us if we want “free trade with caveats” etc?Feel free to explain how you’ll make a modern developed economic system work without those caveats. IE No one wins when the inability to maintain trade balance breaks any of the trading partners.Or the domestic economy collapses because of unemployment,low wages and loss of spending power and tax receipts resulting from trying to compete with exploitative low wage economies.Meaning they can no longer trade anyway because they are broke.
C/F, please tell me and everyone on this thread, Do you buy only British Made Goods, ■■?, 
, Regards Larry.
I doubt it Larry, his computer or laptop will probably be Japanese for starters. 
Pete.
Well just had a count up and carryfast has made 58 entries on this thread once he did four consecutive, think he could have condensed it a little don’t you agree, Buzzer.
PS. he does have some valid points though, is he the British Donald Trump.
Buzzer:
Well just had a count up and carryfast has made 58 entries on this thread once he did four consecutive, think he could have condensed it a little don’t you agree, Buzzer.PS. he does have some valid points though, is he the British Donald Trump.
No chance,
Lawrence Dunbar:
Buzzer:
Well just had a count up and carryfast has made 58 entries on this thread once he did four consecutive, think he could have condensed it a little don’t you agree, Buzzer.PS. he does have some valid points though, is he the British Donald Trump.
No chance,
I was cut short there, My reply was no chance because they are both tossers big style IMO, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
" Firstly ‘free trade’ ‘but’ with the caveat of retaining the right to enforce ‘trade balance’ by way of tarrifs and barriers"
I hope you`re in a good mood? That phrase is worthy of George Orwell ! Big Brother would be proud of such a masterful example of “Double Think”. But, to take your point seriously, as it deserves, who is gonna sign up with us if we want “free trade with caveats” etc?Feel free to explain how you’ll make a modern developed economic system work without those caveats. IE No one wins when the inability to maintain trade balance breaks any of the trading partners.Or the domestic economy collapses because of unemployment,low wages and loss of spending power and tax receipts resulting from trying to compete with exploitative low wage economies.Meaning they can no longer trade anyway because they are broke.
C/F, please tell me and everyone on this thread, Do you buy only British Made Goods, ■■?,
If i may i’ll answer that one, for me, i always bought British made goods only and had to be quite canny to avoid being taken for a ride by supposed British companies making a mockery of those of us who were patriots…Rover weren’t alone in branding that ■■■■ ant Tata heap of rubbish the City Rover with the Union Flag (and whoever came up with that should have been flogged and keel hauled), Belling that good old British name did the same.
I used to deliver those City Rovers at the time and it was quite amusing in the quiet of a Rover dealer to ask in a loud voice…‘where d’yer want this Tata mate’ and see the sales bod rushing over to shut you up and hurry you out of the showroom whilst they foisted that rubbish (complete with Union Flag badge) on unsuspecting older people thinking they were buying British, should have been ashamed of themselves, if sales people know the meaning of the phrase.
Mind you half the time the heaps were broken down as we delivered them, batteries usually flat and often enough the bonnet pull would rip out in your mitt when you went to pop the bonnet…
In the 90’s i wanted a new microwave, and it was going to be made in Britain whatever bloody name happened to be on it.
So i went round the usual sheds, all foreign muck, but whats this? lo and behold there’s a Belling microwave staring at me with a bloody great Union Flag stuck to it…that’ll do me, but knowing how devious our supposed leaders of industry could be i had a look at the back of it, yes you guessed it, made in bloody china, ‘stick that rubbish back on the shelf mate’.
The shop staff were surprised and commented on it, apparently they’d never met anyone who gave a toss, no one else had ever asked where something was made, no wonder this country has gone to the dogs.
Sometime around the turn of the century i realised there was only me and a handful of other dyed in the wool bloody patriots still buying British, so eventually as time wore on i had to change to buying as good quality as possible and absolutely nothing made in a sweat shop hell hole where children and poor people were and possibly are still in almost slave labour.
Buying European made is still difficult (easier with Japanese cos their products work and last), if you buy a washing machine even a major German brand under about £500 it and its packaging will be devoid of manufacturing country, and its only on investigation sometimes that you’ll find its another PRC jobbie…up the budget to £800 and you’ll be swamped with made in Germany labels plastered all over the packaging and displayed prominently on the machine, so the wool is still being pulled over peoples eyes, whether they give a tuppeny’s or not.
Look at a major brands car tyres, one of the very top brands you will find in huge letters stamped on the side Engineered in Germany, yet the same brand also make tyres in countries that might not appeal to the image conscious, on those tyres get your magnifying glass out and after a while you might alight on the made in some other dump label if you squint a bit.
Its a bloody great con and no bugger gives a toss.
Still try to avoid buying junk, but long ago sadly admitted defeat and gave up my increasingly one man buy British crusade.
Lawrence Dunbar:
C/F, please tell me and everyone on this thread, Do you buy only British Made Goods, ■■?,
The issue is creating the type of trading environment which makes it more viable for Brit manufacturers to actually produce the ‘goods’.
So tell us and everyone on this thread are you on the in campaign side or the out campaign side.
As anyone ever met" CARRYFAST" I think he has a split personality, and uses 2 names {like I have ],but who is he really then…does he live north or south■■?
He maybe WIKAPEDIA incognito.
peggydeckboy:
As anyone ever met" CARRYFAST" I think he has a split personality, and uses 2 names {like I have ],but who is he really then…does he live north or south■■?
He maybe WIKAPEDIA incognito.
He is from Leatherhead
It’s a pity Trucknet doesn’t have a like / dislike button on it as it would be great to agree/disagree without having to comment.
chazzer:
It’s a pity Trucknet doesn’t have a like / dislike button on it as it would be great to agree/disagree without having to comment.
Then you could have a range of little buttons acting as qualifiers:
Only assuming that…
With the caveat that…
On condition that…
Ignoring the obvious that…
etc etc. Robert
Like…
LEATHER HEAD HOW APT…
LEATHER HEAD HOW APT…YES LOTS OF HAULAGE FROM THAT KNECK OF THE WOODS.
robert1952:
chazzer:
It’s a pity Trucknet doesn’t have a like / dislike button on it as it would be great to agree/disagree without having to comment.Then you could have a range of little buttons acting as qualifiers:
Only assuming that…
With the caveat that…
On condition that…
Ignoring the obvious that…etc etc.
I am all for the like and dislike button and a “like I said 16 pages ago” button might also come in handy for one person. 
pete smith:
He is from Leatherhead
Oh the poor man…I am sorry.
Well, I dont think ill impose my views on anybody else for much longer. Ive pretty much said my piece, but would, just like to address a coupla points. Juddian: you pretty much sum up my point of view, as regards buying British. I still do look out for the "Red Tractor" logo in the supermarket, but as you and Windrush say using a Sinclair Spectrum aint a viable choice.
Look at the “Big Picture”.
We leave the EU. Firstly well have a few (expensive) years of bureaucrats and lawyers sorting out the separation agreement. (a bit like a divorce, where both parties end up dissatisfied with the end agreement and only lawyers profit). Then we need to find a new trading partner. The obvious choice is (as Ive suggested before) the EU. That ll be interesting talks. A bit like saying "Im divorcing you, but after the divorce I want you to share your bed with me and do my laundry". Those talks will go well wont they? Who are going to make those talks? The same people who made our current agreement with the EU I guess? So those people who suggest leaving and then renegotiating a wonderful new trading agreement are (it seems to me) expecting the impossible. If I were an EU negotiator I dont think Id be very well disposed to some country demanding extra favouritism. Unlike some others I think were strong enough to make our way, in the EU. I dont think well improve our world position by leaving a strong trading zone, and then trying to become a weakened half partner of it !
We stay. Not a perfect solution. But it aint a perfect world. As members of the EU we can trade and influence the future direction of the EU. As bystanders or semi-detached members our influence will be reduced. As favoured partners (Norway) we can have the benefit if trade with the EU, and contribute to their funds, and obey all trading laws decided by the EU, and allow free movement of workers. Oh, and like Norway have no say in the making of the aforementioned rules. But itll probably be cheaper for us tho. I say thats a bad deal. Worse than the one we have. Im sure there are many points worthy of mention, that go against my point of view of staying. But my main point, “the big picture”, is were better off staying in and improving things rather than saying were too weak to make a go in a free trade zone.